Abit sales plummeted in 2005... hello ECS.........

Discussion in 'Abit' started by John Lewis, Sep 23, 2005.

  1. John Lewis

    John Lewis Guest

    See:-

    http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20050922A7040.html

    A last-gasp attempt to reclaim the enthusiast market by shovelling off
    their mid and low-priced boards. Too late, no longer the leader in
    speciality motherboards. Melted-down in their marketing gimmicks -
    OTES, uGuru, Fatal1ty......... Pass the baton to MSI, DFI, Gigabyte
    and dare I say it -- Asus.....

    John Lewis
     
    John Lewis, Sep 23, 2005
    #1
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  2. John Lewis wrote:
    |
    | See:-
    |
    | http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20050922A7040.html
    |
    | A last-gasp attempt to reclaim the enthusiast market by shovelling off
    | their mid and low-priced boards. Too late, no longer the leader in
    | speciality motherboards. Melted-down in their marketing gimmicks -
    | OTES, uGuru, Fatal1ty......... Pass the baton to MSI, DFI, Gigabyte
    | and dare I say it -- Asus.....
    |
    | John Lewis

    I saw the article earlier today and, quite frankly, it doesn't surprise me.

    As I lay here on my stomach on my bed, surfing the web on a 1.8 lb. notebook
    computer, I have to wonder if we haven't already found the beginning of the
    end times for desktop computers.

    Notebook computers have been outselling pre-built desktop computers for some
    time. It's only been a matter of time before the "enthusiast" motherboard
    manufacturers began to feel a shake-out.

    Sure .. I'm not one to discount the performance of desktop systems vs.
    notebook systems .. but I have to wonder if the gap is starting to rapidly
    close with 7200 RPM drives and SATA finding their way onto notebook
    computers. My other notebook computer already gives my AMD 2700+ desktop
    system a run for its money (the 1.8 lb. unit, with its 1.1 GHz Pentium M
    processor .. well .. its saving grace is that it weighs almost nothing,
    making it highly "luggable").

    Lurking Rat in 'Da Hood® -
    Jef
     
    Lurking Rat in 'Da Hood®, Sep 23, 2005
    #2
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  3. John Lewis

    Peter Guest

    I don't think Abit's problems have anything to do with decreasing
    numbers of desktop computers. John has a better explanation, or
    at least the major part of it. I believe Abit will go away entirely
    not long after this sell-off is complete.

    I was in Circuit City last week to pick up a replacement 80-pin
    IDE drive cable. Just a basic, internal, 80-pin flat ribbon cable.
    They don't have any. They don't even carry any. What they
    do have are bins and bins of outrageously overpriced and
    ridiculous cables with various useless features.. they are round,
    or lite up, or have huge plastic housings on the connectors which
    make them utterly useless inside tight cases, etc etc.

    When I expressed irritation to a clerk about their stock choices
    he looked at me like I was from Mars. "What do you mean, a
    $10 cable?" He had never heard of such a thing.

    I see this same nonsense across just about everything in the
    computer industry today. How many people really need OTES?
    Or a new PCI bus? Or Sli video? Or hyperthreading? And on
    and on.
     
    Peter, Sep 23, 2005
    #3
  4. John Lewis

    Mortimer Guest

    True, but if you don't want any of that stuff, you might as well get the
    inexpensive, ready-made box off the shelf.

    Mort
     
    Mortimer, Sep 23, 2005
    #4
  5. Peter wrote:
    |
    | I don't think Abit's problems have anything to do with decreasing
    | numbers of desktop computers. John has a better explanation,
    | or at least the major part of it. I believe Abit will go away entirely
    | not long after this sell-off is complete.
    |

    Creating a corporate structure where Abit designs their products and
    contracts out the assembly of the lower-end of the product line isn't
    necessarily going to be the death knell of the company. Selling off part of
    their assets *may* allow them to once again become financially stable.

    Bad designs and poor quality control, however, will kill the company, if
    this is allowed to continue. This will be true regardless of who does the
    actual assembly.

    Almost every designer/manufacturer contracts out the assembly of at least
    part of their product line.

    Abit, like every other enthusiast motherboard manufacturer, has to stay on
    the bleeding edge of technology. If they didn't, why would anyone bother
    upgrading to a new Abit motherboard? As the component designers come out
    with their latest and greatest, the only way Abit is going to stay in
    business is to integrate that technology into their products.

    Unfortuntely Abit's design and marketing folks latched onto 'bling bling'
    features that are more flash than function.

    | I was in Circuit City last week to pick up a replacement 80-pin
    | IDE drive cable. Just a basic, internal, 80-pin flat ribbon cable.
    | They don't have any. They don't even carry any. What they
    | do have are bins and bins of outrageously overpriced and
    | ridiculous cables with various useless features.. they are
    | round, or lite up, or have huge plastic housings on the
    | connectors which make them utterly useless inside tight
    | cases, etc etc.
    |
    | When I expressed irritation to a clerk about their stock choices
    | he looked at me like I was from Mars. "What do you mean, a
    | $10 cable?" He had never heard of such a thing.
    |

    This is a perfect example of bling bling. Circuit City has determined that
    they don't make enough money selling basic components in a competitive
    environment. Their customers don't buy basic components in a volume that
    warrants taking up the shelf space. All that blinking flash doesn't add to
    anything other than an "enthusiasts" ego .. and a fat corporate bottom line,
    selling cheap crap at high prices.

    | I see this same nonsense across just about everything in the
    | computer industry today. How many people really need OTES?
    | Or a new PCI bus? Or Sli video? Or hyperthreading? And on
    | and on.
    |

    This brings us back around to my (albeit non-stated) original point.
    Probably 95% (or more) of basic applications, save for most games, will run
    nicely on a box with a 300MHz processor and 128MB of RAM .. 256MB if you
    want to run Windows XP (albeit slowly). You can browse the web, word
    process, do a spreadsheet, etc., on an old low-end machine without feeling
    so much as a growth pain. The only thing that has kept the desktop market
    going is the ever increasing demands of games and precious few
    processor-intensive applications. Almost anything else will run nicely on a
    five year old computer with minimal specifications. I lay last night
    browsing the web on a 1.1GHz machine that has enough horsepower to run
    circles around everything I was doing .. hell .. the computer doesn't even
    have a cooling fan on the CPU (it uses the case bottom as a heatsink, making
    it totally silent, save for the occasional parking of the hard disk).

    It's largely the computer users that are running the latest and greatest
    games that demand the most computer horsepower. And .. a large segment of
    that market are those users who want the blinking lights, the rounded
    cables, etc., that are 99% of the component offerings in a retail
    electronics supermarket, such as Circuit City.

    For the rest of us with basic computing needs, the bottom to the middle of
    the market works out nicely. And, with component prices ever decreasing,
    the flexibility of having a notebook computer to fill the bill anywhere you
    can lug the thing is what has caused sales of notebooks to pass desktops in
    the dust. Printers, scanners, digital cameras, external drives, etc., plug
    and play nicely and the computer itself takes up very little space.

    My remaining, and perhaps last, desktop system is used for processor
    specific activities like PhotoShop .. which runs just as well on my 1.5GHz
    Pentium M notebook with a 7200 RPM drive as it does on my Abit NF7 XP2700+
    desktop system, also with 7200 RPM drives. I'm sure I'd see performance
    improvements (the program loading and modifications rendering on large
    graphics) if I were to build a new desktop system .. but 99.9% of what I do
    in PhotoShop is dependent upon how fast I am working with my mouse and I've
    yet to find a way to speed up my hand for that activity.

    ...

    But, back to the original subject .. sure, I see that Abit's move to
    outsource the assembly of the lower end of their product line as an attempt
    to solve their long-standing financial problems. I don't know if the
    company will survive. I'd hate to see Abit go .. but it's a dog-eat-dog
    competitive world out there when it comes to design and manufacturing.

    Lurking Rat in 'Da Hood® -
    Jef
     
    Lurking Rat in 'Da Hood®, Sep 23, 2005
    #5
  6. John Lewis

    - HAL9000 Guest

    Jef, I can understand your point of view. Notebooks encapsulate,
    harness, and use the current state of technology of today well.

    But consider what the state of technology might look like 5 to 10
    years down the road. To me, I see the desktop as the hub and focal
    point of the household. Also the desktop PC functioning as a
    demarcation point for Internet access. The TV should plug
    in/communicate with the desktop, your laptop (or more likely, wireless
    terminal) should communicate (802.11) with the desktop, your automatic
    sprinkler system, your security system, your bedroom alarm clock, and
    even communicate (indirectly) to your automobile's computer. You
    should be able to have voice control of your desktop from your cell
    phone. And most importantly, LOL, your HAL-like
    artifically-intellegent-personal-assistant-bot should run from your
    desktop computer. There needs to be one point where all your other
    devices con come to - and that's your desktop.

    Yes, there does seem to be a lull in the desktop, but it would make
    sense for it to reinvent and revitalize itself. No bling-bling, just
    lots of widening functionality.

    The only really big thing, electronics wise, that isn't in
    motherboards today that comes to mind is powerful voice recognition.
    Strangely enough, the voice recognition experts are now saying that if
    you can look at someone's lips (video input) your recognition accuracy
    can dramatically improve. Didn't HAL read Dave's lips while Dave was
    locked inside the EV Pod? How ironic !

    I don't think that powerful voice recognition will come around till we
    either have multiple cpu's on motherboards or multiple loosely coupled
    cpu's on a single die. And, of course, huge amounts of RAM !

    Forrest

    Motherboard Help By HAL web site:
    http://home.comcast.net/~mobo.help/


    On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 04:50:27 GMT, "Lurking Rat in 'Da Hood®"

    < snip >
     
    - HAL9000, Sep 23, 2005
    #6
  7. HAL9000 wrote:
    |
    | Jef, I can understand your point of view. Notebooks encapsulate,
    | harness, and use the current state of technology of today well.
    |
    | But consider what the state of technology might look like 5 to 10
    | years down the road. To me, I see the desktop as the hub and focal
    | point of the household.
    <snip>

    Hi Forrest -

    I'll continue my Lurking Rat Straw Man® argument .. especially since Qed
    hasn't crept up from his hidey-hole to jump all over me for not finding a
    way to 'speed up my hand for that activity' ...

    I agree entirely about the 'desktop' system becoming the hub of the
    integrated household.

    The Lurking Rat Straw Man®: What form factor?

    I used to heat my lunch on top of my first hard disk unit .. a spacious
    external affair with a single digit of megabytes of capacity that measured
    something like two feet square by eight inches thick.

    The capacity was huge at the time because I didn't have to swap out 128K
    8-inch floppies containing my compiler, source code, object code and data
    files as I developed 8-bit application software running in 32K of memory in
    the early 1980's.

    Who knows .. the "desktop" system of the future you describe may dwarf the
    1.8 lb. notebook I now use laying on my bed and at the local coffee shop.

    In its present form, the desktop system of today will be an extinct dinosaur
    long before the household integrator of five to ten years from now polls my
    car's computers wirelessly. And I doubt it will be necessary to plug
    anything into it .. why bother with wires when wireless can transmit data as
    fast as copper wire (again .. that unknown future). There's your Lurking
    Rat Straw Man® .. the technology will continue to gain performance by leaps
    at a time and will require less and less physical space.

    Lurking Rat in 'Da Hood® -
    Jef
     
    Lurking Rat in 'Da Hood®, Sep 24, 2005
    #7
  8. John Lewis

    0_Qed Guest

    Lurking Rat in 'Da Hood® wrote:
    ....snip...
    Ya forgot to theorize the Patriot Act edicted , wireless, mind_reading
    butt_plug
    that'll connect you to the society at large.
    No 'LT', or 'DT' required.

    :)
    Qed.
     
    0_Qed, Sep 24, 2005
    #8
  9. Qed wrote:
    |
    | Ya forgot to theorize the Patriot Act edicted , wireless,
    | mind_reading butt_plug
    | that'll connect you to the society at large.
    | No 'LT', or 'DT' required.
    |
    | :)
    | Qed.

    That's your theory snookums. And I'm sure, once connected to society at
    large (and yours will probably require an extra large), you won't want to
    come out of your hidey-hole ever!

    Lurking Rat in 'Da Hood®
     
    Lurking Rat in 'Da Hood®, Sep 24, 2005
    #9
  10. John Lewis

    farmuse Guest

    desktops/ file servers wont go away
     
    farmuse, Sep 24, 2005
    #10
  11. John Lewis

    farmuse Guest

    THANK YOU Jef,

    I have been waiting for someone to say that, it's like the king has
    no clothes on but no one wants to say so. 300 MHz CPU run just as fast
    today as they did in 1998, and they can run all sorts of apps just fine.
    MS and many other companies dont want folks to think so, but it is the
    truth. If all someone is running is SOHO apps, then a P II and 128 or so
    MB ram and a 10 GB drive are plenty enough to run Windows 98 SE, XP, or
    Linux just fine. I know so, I have several vintage , refurbished
    machines that run great for what they are, and for daily stuff you cant
    hardly tell the difference between them and this XP 2400 machine. The
    vintage computers run on a clean install with only Norton AV and a
    router as protection, no other crap running in the background. The few
    with no AV no NIC run even faster. My quest is to find the MINIMUM PC,
    not the Maximum PC and prove that most people don't need a new computer,
    they just need to take care of the one they already have. Just like your
    wife ha ha.

    Thanks again Jef, John
     
    farmuse, Sep 24, 2005
    #11
  12. John Lewis

    - HAL9000 Guest

    Mind reading but-tox plug that'll connect you to society at large? I
    must have missed the germinating thread on that thought. Is that a
    "Matrix" like society?

    Forrest

    Motherboard Help By HAL web site:
    http://home.comcast.net/~mobo.help/
     
    - HAL9000, Sep 24, 2005
    #12
  13. John Lewis

    Pavel Guest

    "Lurking Rat in 'Da Hood®" <>
    wrote in message : : Sure .. I'm not one to discount the performance of desktop systems
    vs.
    : notebook systems .. but I have to wonder if the gap is starting to
    rapidly
    : close with 7200 RPM drives and SATA finding their way onto notebook
    : computers. My other notebook computer already gives my AMD 2700+
    desktop
    : system a run for its money (the 1.8 lb. unit, with its 1.1 GHz
    Pentium M
    : processor .. well .. its saving grace is that it weighs almost
    nothing,
    : making it highly "luggable").

    These babies with 7200 rpm drives run waaay too hot. Dunno what the
    life expectancy of the notebook and peripherals are going to be.
    Remember, heat kills and manufacturers have to do a better a job in
    addressing this issue.
     
    Pavel, Sep 25, 2005
    #13
  14. Pavel wrote:
    |
    | These babies with 7200 rpm drives run waaay too hot. Dunno
    | what the life expectancy of the notebook and peripherals are
    | going to be. Remember, heat kills and manufacturers have to
    | do a better a job in addressing this issue.
    |
    |

    The 2.5" Hitachi 7K60 60GB 7200 RPM drive I put in my notebook runs cooler
    than the Toshiba 4200 RPM drive it replaced. I've verified this using the
    Centrino Hardware Monitor.

    The Toshiba drive would get uncomfortably warm under the left palm rest ..
    where the drive is located .. when the machine had been in constant use for
    extended periods of time (e.g., not allowing power management to spin the
    drive down when inactive). The Hitachi drive feels warm .. but not
    uncomfortably so.

    I wouldn't try this with the E7K60 .. the specifications for this drive are
    for warmer operation and added power consumption .. this is their 2.5" model
    intended for servers.

    I'll be interested to see what the more recent 7K100 drives, which replace
    the 7K60 line, actually do once they've been well benchmarked.

    Lurking Rat in 'Da Hood® -
    Jef
     
    Lurking Rat in 'Da Hood®, Sep 26, 2005
    #14
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