Advice needed: AMD or Intel

Discussion in 'Abit' started by Papa Lazarou, Jan 19, 2004.

  1. Papa Lazarou

    Papa Lazarou Guest

    Hi y'all. It's time for my trusty KT7A & 1.4ghz Athlon to hang up its
    boots and I need some advice on my new system.

    I've decided on either an AMD based 2800xp with Abit NFS-7 mb, or a more
    expensive 2.8ghz P4 on an Abit AI7. Neither will be overclocked as I am
    going for as quiet a system as possible so radical cooling is out of the
    question. Is there any noise difference between the two systems with
    stock heatsink/fans? The heavy duty activities the machine will be used
    for are gaming and Mpeg 2 encoding (using Tmpgenc).

    At first I was all set to take the AMD route without even considering
    the P4, but then it occurred to me that mpeg encoding is basically a
    pure number-crunching operation and that for this purpose the 2.1ghz
    2800xp will be obviously inferior to the sheer power of a 2.8ghz P4.
    Am I correct in thinking this, as I don't mind springing the extra bucks
    for the P4 system if it gives me this 33% boost on my encodes?
    Any advice appreciated.
     
    Papa Lazarou, Jan 19, 2004
    #1
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  2. Papa Lazarou

    Courseyauto Guest

    Hi y'all. It's time for my trusty KT7A & 1.4ghz Athlon to hang up its
    boots and I need some advice on my new system.

    I've decided on either an AMD based 2800xp with Abit NFS-7 mb, or a more
    expensive 2.8ghz P4 on an Abit AI7. Neither will be overclocked as I am
    going for as quiet a system as possible so radical cooling is out of the
    question. Is there any noise difference between the two systems with
    stock heatsink/fans? The heavy duty activities the machine will be used
    for are gaming and Mpeg 2 encoding (using Tmpgenc).

    At first I was all set to take the AMD route without even considering
    the P4, but then it occurred to me that mpeg encoding is basically a
    pure number-crunching operation and that for this purpose the 2.1ghz
    2800xp will be obviously inferior to the sheer power of a 2.8ghz P4.
    Am I correct in thinking this, as I don't mind springing the extra bucks
    for the P4 system if it gives me this 33% boost on my encodes?
    Any advice appreciated.


    I have the 2.8 with the stock heatsink and fan with the CPU volts at default.
    mine is over clocked to 3.0 and it is very quite and runs at 38 degrees. Your
    memory bandwidth will be much better with the Intel board. Also the
    northbridge has its own SATA controller on it's on buss. DOUG
     
    Courseyauto, Jan 19, 2004
    #2
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  3. Papa Lazarou

    Martin Guest

    Also, you will almost certainly be able to overclock the P4 2.8 ghz to over
    3ghz without changing the supplied cooler (although using paste would help a
    little). That would make no difference to the noise...

    Martin
     
    Martin, Jan 19, 2004
    #3
  4. Papa Lazarou

    ICee Guest

    Get a XP2500+, which will easily overclock (using a 200 MHz+ FSB) to at
    least a 3200+.
     
    ICee, Jan 19, 2004
    #4
  5. Papa Lazarou

    Jon Rose Guest

    Can that be done with the retail fan and heatsink? I have an NF7-S and a
    2500+ on its way. Wondering if I need an aftermarket sink and fan to get it
    to 200 Mhz FSB).

    Jon
     
    Jon Rose, Jan 19, 2004
    #5
  6. Papa Lazarou

    Dave Hau Guest

    Tmpgenc is able to take advantage of SSE2 and hyperthreading on a P4 system,
    which is faster than when it uses 3d-now on an athlon32 system. I don't
    know the exact magnitude of the performance improvement but I guess 33% is
    possible. So for media encoding, I would definitely recommend a P4 system.

    Now if you could get an athlon64 system instead, then it would support SSE2
    and would probably give you better performance than a P4 system. But I
    guess in terms of price-performance, a P4 2.8c would be a sweet spot for
    media encoding.

    - Dave
     
    Dave Hau, Jan 19, 2004
    #6
  7. Papa Lazarou

    Mark H Guest

    Since the 2500's are now locked - you can still easily reach 2200mhz
    with the retail heat sink.


    Jon Rose wrote:
     
    Mark H, Jan 20, 2004
    #7
  8. Papa Lazarou

    DaveL Guest

    DaveL, Jan 20, 2004
    #8
  9. Papa Lazarou

    Jon Rose Guest

    Forgive my ignorance on current AMD processors. What is locked on the Barton
    cores? The multiplier?

    Thanks,
    Jon
     
    Jon Rose, Jan 20, 2004
    #9
  10. Papa Lazarou

    Conor Guest

    Yes.


    --
    Conor

    "The vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world.
    And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice."
    - George Bush
     
    Conor, Jan 20, 2004
    #10
  11. Papa Lazarou

    Dave Hau Guest

    Media encoding performance on the P4 depends on whether the software is
    written to take advantage of the SSE2 instruction set and of hyperthreading.
    So it's pretty specific to how the software is written. The above benchmark
    uses a software called "Main Concept 1.3". Unless you're using this same
    software, the benchmark results might not be applicable to you.

    Regards,
    Dave
     
    Dave Hau, Jan 20, 2004
    #11
  12. Papa Lazarou

    jamotto Guest

    curious when did they start locking the Barton 2500's? I just bought
    one from newegg.com and it is not locked.
     
    jamotto, Jan 20, 2004
    #12
  13. Papa Lazarou

    DaveL Guest

    Most say the locking started at week 39. There have been reports of some
    locked as early a week 35. What week is your's? If you dont know, post the
    code number on it and I'll tell you. It would be something like "AIUGB
    0348UPMW". This would be week 48 of 2003.

    Dave
     
    DaveL, Jan 20, 2004
    #13
  14. Papa Lazarou

    DaveL Guest

    I agree. But on the other hand, Tom's Hardware website usually favors
    Intel.

    Dave
     
    DaveL, Jan 20, 2004
    #14
  15. Papa Lazarou

    jamotto Guest

    mmm well if it is not the serial number for the warranty then I don't
    have it. Or I recorded the wrong number. Also I'm kind of using it
    right now and I don't think I can get it out. It took a friend and I
    an hour to get it in because the heatsink it used was the worst
    heatsink I ever had to install! It had a green plastic thing for
    placeing the screwdriver into to help push the retaining clip down it
    also did not have the indention for the raised back part of the socket
    the previous 2500 I bought had this indention in the heatsink.

    anyway, I guess I will assume I have a Processor that is < 35week.
     
    jamotto, Jan 21, 2004
    #15
  16. Papa Lazarou

    Homie Guest

    Homie


    P.S.
    I fried/crushed/ installed into faulty motherboards 5 AMD cpu's in the past 6 months.
    that's out of about 300 AMD repairs
    Zero " 0 " fried / Damaged Intel CPU's...in the last 3 years ....over 5000 Intel
    based boards repaired & tested with Intel cpu's.
    Some had 5 volts to the core, a few, I just plain forgot to put the heat-sink
    on....didn't matter ! Bios beeped video went a little funny....but it didn't fuckin
    burn up in 2 seconds like AMD cpu's do....Then corners of the cores aren't made to
    fall off so that the manufacture can claim abuse and no warranty .... wonder why AMD
    does that ? ????
    Not biased, I just think that AMD is selling shit and telling us its Shinola.

    And what the **** am I gonna do with a 64bit CPU ??? I know...break legs off it and
    send it to me to fix :)
    No, I know.....I will set up a server and serve MS. net documents to everyone for
    desert ? that might use all 64 bits ....



    --
    Mainboards, Videocards & CPU pin repair.

    http://motherboardrepair.com


    Hi y'all. It's time for my trusty KT7A & 1.4ghz Athlon to hang up its
    boots and I need some advice on my new system.

    I've decided on either an AMD based 2800xp with Abit NFS-7 mb, or a more
    expensive 2.8ghz P4 on an Abit AI7. Neither will be overclocked as I am
    going for as quiet a system as possible so radical cooling is out of the
    question. Is there any noise difference between the two systems with
    stock heatsink/fans? The heavy duty activities the machine will be used
    for are gaming and Mpeg 2 encoding (using Tmpgenc).

    At first I was all set to take the AMD route without even considering
    the P4, but then it occurred to me that mpeg encoding is basically a
    pure number-crunching operation and that for this purpose the 2.1ghz
    2800xp will be obviously inferior to the sheer power of a 2.8ghz P4.
    Am I correct in thinking this, as I don't mind springing the extra bucks
    for the P4 system if it gives me this 33% boost on my encodes?
    Any advice appreciated.

    --
    Mainboards, Videocards & CPU pin repair.

    http://motherboardrepair.com


    Hi y'all. It's time for my trusty KT7A & 1.4ghz Athlon to hang up its
    boots and I need some advice on my new system.

    I've decided on either an AMD based 2800xp with Abit NFS-7 mb, or a more
    expensive 2.8ghz P4 on an Abit AI7. Neither will be overclocked as I am
    going for as quiet a system as possible so radical cooling is out of the
    question. Is there any noise difference between the two systems with
    stock heatsink/fans? The heavy duty activities the machine will be used
    for are gaming and Mpeg 2 encoding (using Tmpgenc).

    At first I was all set to take the AMD route without even considering
    the P4, but then it occurred to me that mpeg encoding is basically a
    pure number-crunching operation and that for this purpose the 2.1ghz
    2800xp will be obviously inferior to the sheer power of a 2.8ghz P4.
    Am I correct in thinking this, as I don't mind springing the extra bucks
    for the P4 system if it gives me this 33% boost on my encodes?
    Any advice appreciated.
     
    Homie, Jan 22, 2004
    #16
  17. Papa Lazarou

    DaveL Guest

    I'll agree that the AMD Athlons are not as rugged as the Intel chips. But I
    believe the difference can be made up with learned and carefull installation
    practices. What I mean is, if you are new to building a system then go
    Intel. If you know what you are doing and can afford to take the little
    extra time and care, then by all means, save some money and go AMD.

    Dave
     
    DaveL, Jan 22, 2004
    #17
  18. Papa Lazarou

    Homie Guest

    In my situation, 5 CPU's lost while repairing motherboards is nearly $600 profit right
    out of my pocket, not to mention the waisted time caused by the failure in the middle
    of what otherwise would have been a good day.
    I use more care with AMD CPU's than any other component I work with daily, still the
    results tell the truth.
    I just don't see how it's a good deal to have a product that has no built in
    safeguards.
    They are great performers for the buck, however, heat-sink compound does dry out, fans
    do fail, power supplies go whacky, none of these things has killed an Intel while
    under my care but all of those things have killed AMD's at my expense. AND it always
    happens at the worst possible time....day before Christmas , same day the car
    dies...you know.......
    If AMD would implement even crude safeguards like a 5 second warning or at the very
    least crowbar the damn ATX........ I would have much nicer things to say.
    Meanwhile, I have several 2~3Ghz key fobs.... they do make good conversation pieces.
    Next I am going to make a VIA BGA chip-set hood ornament... (Not kidding at
    all....they are a pain to remove without damage but they look so kool).


    Gary

    --
    Mainboards, Videocards & CPU pin repair.

    http://motherboardrepair.com


    I'll agree that the AMD Athlons are not as rugged as the Intel chips. But I
    believe the difference can be made up with learned and carefull installation
    practices. What I mean is, if you are new to building a system then go
    Intel. If you know what you are doing and can afford to take the little
    extra time and care, then by all means, save some money and go AMD.

    Dave
     
    Homie, Jan 22, 2004
    #18
  19. Papa Lazarou

    DaveL Guest

    All my AMD motherboards have a automatic shutdown mechanism if the cpu gets
    hot, like if the fan dies or heatsink falls off. I saw a newbie in another
    NG that was setting up an Athlon64 system. He thought he would test out his
    shiny new cpu before mounting the HSF because he did not want to get it
    messy in case he had to return it. He was asking why it would not boot up.
    After we set him straight (and had a good time laughing at him) he mounted
    the HSF and it still worked, it was not burnt out. So I'm thinking the new
    Athlon64s have some type of thermal protection.

    Dave
     
    DaveL, Jan 22, 2004
    #19
  20. Papa Lazarou

    Homie Guest

    If it survived for even 3 seconds without a heat-sink, it's got something the Athlons
    don't.
    I fried 2 slot A 950's last year when I neglected to plug in the fans, the bios alarms
    & shutdown were set but they were about 30 seconds too late. That external temp sensor
    (I think that's Via's great Idea) is about like having the fire department walk to
    your burning house with empty buckets....at least when they get there, they could tell
    ya..."yep, she's a hot one"
    I assure you, the 2.2g Athlon's will self destruct faster than you can shut down the
    supply when they are booted without a heat-sink.......Sometimes, just to add insult,
    they will take out the on-board regulators and chip-set too!
    I am not the sharpest tack in the box but every time it has happened to me, it was
    because I was destracted for just a second as I was doing the final build before the
    final test....you know, phone rings, sit down the heat-sink, wipe the white/silver
    slime off my hands, talk for 5 minutes..... then walk back to the test jig and
    think...OH..I just need to boot this and get it ready to ship....
    2 seconds later as the current meters head for a jigawatt----- that's when I can't
    speak English &^%*
    I am sure the neighbors hear something like "Trucking 8MDEEES Truck! Chucking !!chuk
    !!duck !suck! muck guck! ruck guck puck ! ""
    (.. If they fixed that in the 64.... I will start recommending AMD's.)


    Gary


    --
    Mainboards, Videocards & CPU pin repair.

    http://motherboardrepair.com


    All my AMD motherboards have a automatic shutdown mechanism if the cpu gets
    hot, like if the fan dies or heatsink falls off. I saw a newbie in another
    NG that was setting up an Athlon64 system. He thought he would test out his
    shiny new cpu before mounting the HSF because he did not want to get it
    messy in case he had to return it. He was asking why it would not boot up.
    After we set him straight (and had a good time laughing at him) he mounted
    the HSF and it still worked, it was not burnt out. So I'm thinking the new
    Athlon64s have some type of thermal protection.

    Dave
     
    Homie, Jan 22, 2004
    #20
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