Advise on Mountain Lion upgrade

Discussion in 'Apple' started by CB, Feb 26, 2013.

  1. CB

    CB Guest

    I have a MacBook with the latest upgrade 10.6.8 and have been thinking
    about downloading the Mountain Lion upgrade. I have all of the software
    (cpu, ram etc) I need. But; Apple's faq on requirements states that the
    MacBook must be late 2008 aluminum or early 2009 or newer.

    I brought mine in 2007. If all other requirements are met, am I ok? I have
    to say that an upgrade would be just to have the latest OS. Snow Leopard
    does everything I need. This in fact was the best computer purchase I've
    ever made.
     
    CB, Feb 26, 2013
    #1
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  2. No. They state that requirement for a reason - namely that it is a
    requirement. The fine points of why don't really matter because they
    won't change the answer, which is "no".
     
    Richard Maine, Feb 26, 2013
    #2
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  3. CB

    Rollo Guest

    "CB" wrote in message
    No - you are not allowed to do it.

    Great! So your happy with your obsolete computer.
     
    Rollo, Feb 26, 2013
    #3
  4. CB

    CB Guest


    Thanks for advise. Both replies.

    Regards....
     
    CB, Feb 26, 2013
    #4
  5. CB

    Larry Gusaas Guest

    Mountain Lion won't run on your system. The latest OS to run is OS X ver. 10.7 "Lion".


    --
    _________________________________

    Larry I. Gusaas
    Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada
    Website: http://larry-gusaas.com
    "An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." - Edgard Varese
     
    Larry Gusaas, Feb 26, 2013
    #5
  6. CB

    JF Mezei Guest

    I don't think anyone here can answer authoritatively. For one thing, the
    installation scripts will likely detect hardware which is not supported
    and quit there.

    Hardware requirements are often a question of budgets. If they did not
    have the budget/time to test the new OS onto older hardware, then the
    older hardware is not "supported" and they put a check in the
    installtion to only allow install on hardware they tested.

    But this does not implicitly mean that it will not work. It is quite
    possible that their OS/app building scripts end up generating binaries
    that are compatible with the 2007 CPUs, but unless you are an Apple
    engineer you can't know that.

    It is also possible that Apple optimizes the build scripts to make use
    of new features of chips and this really is a show stopper for computers
    whose chips do not support those new features/instructions. when the
    kernel tries to execute an opcode which is not supported by the CPU, the
    whole system crashes.

    The only way to find out would be to backup your Snow Leopard system,
    then copy an existing Moutain Lion system disk from another computer to
    your 2007 one and test it. (this bypasses the install scripts that would
    say NO to you).

    If/when you find that this does not work, then you can revert to your
    backup on Snow Leopard.


    As a point of comparison, Digital's VAX VMS last version circa early
    2000s still ran on the all mighty 1986 Microvax II. But you had to do
    tweaks in SYSGEN memory allocations if you wanted to run the TCP stack
    on it because the 16meg of memory was tight and AUTOGEN had not been
    updated to deal with such memory limitations.

    The reason it still worked is that the engineers simply never removed
    the code to support that VAX variant and the VAX instruction set was
    already mature by mid 1980s so more modern VAX compilers still produced
    binary code that was compatible with the old VAX CPUs.

    However, for the Alpha, things are different. The instruction set
    evolved and binaries generated to make use of more recent functions
    could not run on the oldest Alphas. (compiler switches would target one
    variant of Alpha over another). So at one point, the newest version of
    VMS for Alpha could no longer run on the oldest Alphas.


    So, in the case of the x86, the architecture has evolved over time and
    new instructions added (64 bit support for instance, and various
    instructions to help decode h.264 as another example).

    So if the newer version of OS-X make use of x86 features not present in
    your circa 2007 machine, then you are out of luck.

    It is also possible that they removed support for your hardware, removed
    support for some graphics cards etc in order to prevent OS bloat. But
    again, unless you are an engineer within Apple who is familair with the
    OS builds, you couldn't know that because Apple doesn't release that
    info and Apple engineers do not participate in open forums.
     
    JF Mezei, Feb 26, 2013
    #6
  7. CB

    Lewis Guest

    Specifically, since we don't have the exact model, no. Generally, yes.
    10.8 requires a computer that is 64-bit clean, including the EFI, and
    can load a pure 64-bit kernel (which is the only kernel 10.8 has).
    Machines that Apple says cannot upgrade to 10.8 *cannot* upgrade to
    10.8. The only exception that I know of, and it requires considerable
    effort, is the original MacPro1,1 with which you can setup an EFI boot
    selector to then load the new 64 bit kernel. If you've upgraded your GPU
    to one 10.8 supports, this can work. It is, essentially, creating a
    hackintosh (the process is exactly the same as getting 10.8 to boot on
    my Dell), and last I checked it requires dedicating one drive to booting
    the machine and loading the 64-bit EFI and a different drive to boot
    10.8.

    There are no laptops that this can possibly work on because there are no
    64 bit drivers for their GPUs.
    It will not work.
     
    Lewis, Feb 26, 2013
    #7
  8. CB

    Davoud Guest

    CB:
    There's your answer. Not late 2008 Al or early 2009 or newer. Won't
    work.
    Then pay no attention to snarky responses about your MacBook being
    obsolete. If it serves your needs adequately it is not obsolete.
    Emotion is a huge factor in shopping for computers, cameras, cars, and
    other expensive goods. If you gotta have the latest and greatest, then
    your cost-of-living will have to increase.
     
    Davoud, Feb 26, 2013
    #8
  9. Personally, I advise you to leave it alone. I have a mid-2009 MBP. I
    went to 10.7, then 10.8 hoping it'd be better. I'm now running 10.6.8,
    and am much relieved. I dread the situation when I have to replace this
    machine with a newer one.

    Maybe I'll just get a Raspberry Pi and kick Apple to the curb.
     
    Howard S Shubs, Feb 26, 2013
    #9
  10. CB

    Rollo Guest

    "JF Mezei" wrote in message

    I don't think anyone here can answer authoritatively. For one thing,
    the
    installation scripts will likely detect hardware which is not
    supported
    and quit there.

    Hardware requirements are often a question of budgets. If they did not
    have the budget/time to test the new OS onto older hardware, then the
    older hardware is not "supported" and they put a check in the
    installtion to only allow install on hardware they tested.

    But this does not implicitly mean that it will not work. It is quite
    possible that their OS/app building scripts end up generating binaries
    that are compatible with the 2007 CPUs, but unless you are an Apple
    engineer you can't know that.

    It is also possible that Apple optimizes the build scripts to make use
    of new features of chips and this really is a show stopper for
    computers
    whose chips do not support those new features/instructions. when the
    kernel tries to execute an opcode which is not supported by the CPU,
    the
    whole system crashes.

    The only way to find out would be to backup your Snow Leopard system,
    then copy an existing Moutain Lion system disk from another computer
    to
    your 2007 one and test it. (this bypasses the install scripts that
    would
    say NO to you).

    If/when you find that this does not work, then you can revert to your
    backup on Snow Leopard.


    As a point of comparison, Digital's VAX VMS last version circa early
    2000s still ran on the all mighty 1986 Microvax II. But you had to do
    tweaks in SYSGEN memory allocations if you wanted to run the TCP stack
    on it because the 16meg of memory was tight and AUTOGEN had not been
    updated to deal with such memory limitations.

    The reason it still worked is that the engineers simply never removed
    the code to support that VAX variant and the VAX instruction set was
    already mature by mid 1980s so more modern VAX compilers still
    produced
    binary code that was compatible with the old VAX CPUs.

    However, for the Alpha, things are different. The instruction set
    evolved and binaries generated to make use of more recent functions
    could not run on the oldest Alphas. (compiler switches would target
    one
    variant of Alpha over another). So at one point, the newest version of
    VMS for Alpha could no longer run on the oldest Alphas.


    So, in the case of the x86, the architecture has evolved over time and
    new instructions added (64 bit support for instance, and various
    instructions to help decode h.264 as another example).

    So if the newer version of OS-X make use of x86 features not present
    in
    your circa 2007 machine, then you are out of luck.

    It is also possible that they removed support for your hardware,
    removed
    support for some graphics cards etc in order to prevent OS bloat. But
    again, unless you are an engineer within Apple who is familair with
    the
    OS builds, you couldn't know that because Apple doesn't release that
    info and Apple engineers do not participate in open forums.

    *********************************************************************************

    Do you think anyone bothered to read this Tome?

    Why couldn't you simply say, "no"?
     
    Rollo, Feb 27, 2013
    #10
  11. CB

    Rollo Guest

    "Lewis" wrote in message
    Specifically, since we don't have the exact model, no. Generally, yes.
    10.8 requires a computer that is 64-bit clean, including the EFI, and
    can load a pure 64-bit kernel (which is the only kernel 10.8 has).
    Machines that Apple says cannot upgrade to 10.8 *cannot* upgrade to
    10.8. The only exception that I know of, and it requires considerable
    effort, is the original MacPro1,1 with which you can setup an EFI boot
    selector to then load the new 64 bit kernel. If you've upgraded your
    GPU
    to one 10.8 supports, this can work. It is, essentially, creating a
    hackintosh (the process is exactly the same as getting 10.8 to boot on
    my Dell), and last I checked it requires dedicating one drive to
    booting
    the machine and loading the 64-bit EFI and a different drive to boot
    10.8.

    There are no laptops that this can possibly work on because there are
    no
    64 bit drivers for their GPUs.
    It will not work.
    **************************************************************

    Couldn't you say that in the first sentence and leave it at that?

    You just looove seeing yourself in print.

    WOW!!! Deep!!! I never thought of it that way!!! Too bad it doesn't
    matter.
     
    Rollo, Feb 27, 2013
    #11
  12. CB

    Tim Streater Guest

    I read it and it was interesting. If you didn't think so, why did you
    quote it all in your response?

    "Tome" didn't require a capital-T, by the way.
     
    Tim Streater, Feb 27, 2013
    #12
  13. CB

    Paul Sture Guest

    I read it and found it interesting too. It provided a good summary of
    why features get dropped and how you can sometimes get lucky.

    FWIW I successfully ran iWork '08 on my ageing G3 iBook when the outside
    of the box said that a G4 was a minimum requirement. Yes it was a bit
    slow, but it definitely worked.
     
    Paul Sture, Feb 27, 2013
    #13
  14. Because he's a known troll.
     
    Howard S Shubs, Feb 27, 2013
    #14
  15. CB

    saneearth Guest

    YOU wrote this about someone else? BWAHHHAHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
     
    saneearth, Feb 28, 2013
    #15
  16. CB

    Rollo Guest

    "saneearth" wrote in message

    And you, will now join Chance Furlong.

    Bye
     
    Rollo, Feb 28, 2013
    #16
  17. CB

    CB Guest

    Again, my thanks to all who replied. I found all replies of interest
    and I learned some new things. I will keep my MacBook as is and keep
    10.6.8. I visited the Apple Store recently and really like the 11"
    Air. Going to start saving and buy one in the next 5 or 6 months.

    Mine is over 5 years old and the drive will go at some point and I
    intend to stay with Apple.

    Thanks.....
     
    CB, Feb 28, 2013
    #17
  18. CB

    Lloyd Guest

    I had an 11" Air and it was a wonderful box at a decent enough price.
    That said, I didn't keep it long as that 11" screen and the fonts used
    just was nearly unreadable for me without zooming a lot.

    The 13" Air is a much better choice, imo. And if you look at the Apple
    Store in the 'special deals' you can oft times get a 13" refurb at about
    the same price as a new 11" one. And they come with a full 1 year
    warranty and are eligible for Applecare just like new ones. The only
    difference I have ever seen in the refurbs was the box they come in.
    Same box as the new but without some of the gussiness that Apple has on
    their new boxes.
     
    Lloyd, Feb 28, 2013
    #18
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