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AMD Athlon Mobile XP 1800+/2000+/2200+ running at FSB 200 possible?

Discussion in 'AMD Thunderbird' started by Clemens Arth, Jun 30, 2003.

  1. Clemens Arth

    Clemens Arth Guest

    Hi!

    I got a Mitac Clone MiNote 7321 Notebook from IPC Archtec running a
    AthlonM 1200 MHz Processor. I worked through the AMD Technical
    Specification Docs and the CPU-Support-Tables:

    http://www.mitacservice.com/visitor_htm/cpu.asp
    http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/con...Assets/Electrical_Specification_Rev03_ENG.pdf

    IPC told me that's only possible to use Athlon XP Mobile CPUs capable
    of running at FSB 200 MHz (Bios doesn't recognise 266FSB-CPUs) and
    that's not possible to use CPUs > 1800+ due to thermal problems. So I
    don't believe everything I'm told (1500+ was the maximum possible told
    a week ago) but what really confuses me is:

    Is it possible to run a CPU designed to run at 266FSB to run at
    200FSB? Is there a special package type I have to use? The original
    datasheet of the Laptop is to be found at (please don't believe
    everything!).

    http://mitac.com/micweb/products/notebook/7321.html

    Please, can anyone give me some advice? At the moment prices for CPUs
    are quite low and I don't want to miss the chance to upgrade the
    notebook as far as possible (2200+ recommended)...

    Thanks!
    Clemens
     
    Clemens Arth, Jun 30, 2003
    #1
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  2. Clemens Arth

    Wes Newell Guest

    And Abit told me it wasn't possible to use XP cpu's in my old MB too. See
    sig line and link.
    According to the tech docs, and (and verified by many) the FSB can range
    from 50-200MHz (100-400FSB in marketing terms).
    Not found....
    I would think any 35watt XP-M cpu would work but i don't know how your NB
    will handle the multipliers. You may have to manually change them. Many
    ways to do this.
     
    Wes Newell, Jun 30, 2003
    #2
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  3. Clemens Arth

    Fig Guest

    Just off topic Wes, cant seem to view your web page/sig/link

    Fig
     
    Fig, Jul 1, 2003
    #3
  4. Clemens Arth

    Wes Newell Guest

    It's still there.
     
    Wes Newell, Jul 1, 2003
    #4
  5. Clemens Arth

    Clemens Arth Guest

    Sorry, Wes, my fault: The 'l' at the end is wrong:

    http://mitac.com/micweb/products/notebook/7321.htm

    I think you're right - sometimes you might think producers of pc
    components only want to make profit instead of give appropriate
    support to their customers - "You'd better buy a new one than to
    upgrade your old one...".

    There's a block of four jumpers located behind the keyboard, so
    playing around a bit might get things going - until now there's no
    announcement about the jumper settings...

    I couldn't find a document telling me the thermal specification of any
    MOBILE Athlon processor. So I don't know how much thermal power each
    processor produces, but according to some articles I read they are all
    producing about 40 to 50W - I don't think my AthlonM 1200 is producing
    much less then 40 now.

    So did I get you right? Documents say, CPUs have a maximum FSB of 266
    - using it at 200MHz is no problem? If running them at 200 is no
    problem why shouldn't I buy a new XP M 2800+ if I can get it cool
    enough?
    I noticed that there might be several different forms of XP-M CPUs for
    desktop or notebook use, different packages (18/13 micrometer). Do
    they all use low voltage stepping? So, knowing that the 13s need lower
    default voltage and can get higher in speed, using them shouldn't be a
    problem I guess...

    Clemens
     
    Clemens Arth, Jul 1, 2003
    #5
  6. Clemens Arth

    Wes Newell Guest

    What's real strange here is that they show it only to support a 200FSB
    (100MHz) abd VIA shows the KN133 chipset that's in it supporting a 133MHz
    (266FSB) too. Also, the cpu support link you showed had an 1800+ XP being
    supported which uses a 133MHz FSB (266FS). So I'd assume it supports the
    266FSB (133MHz).
    Now these may be the multiplier settings. And like the older desktop MB's
    it appears it only supports 4 bits of the 5 multiplier bits. See
    Multiplier Cross ref at my site.
    I'm not sure what you are talking about here. 200FSB is really 100MHz,
    400FSB is really 200MHz. So I don't know for sure which you are refering
    to with 200MHz as that's 400FSB in AMD marketing BS. In any case, the
    CPU's are rated for 50-200MHz, or in amd BS terms that would be
    100-400FSB. I also wouldn't waste my money on a 2800+. If like the desktop
    cpu's, a TBred B core 2100+ will clock as high as a 2800+. They use the
    same core.
    I'd use the one that requires the less power. Assuming your MB will
    support the voltage it requires. I'm not really into noteboks. Never owned
    one and hated most I've used.:)
     
    Wes Newell, Jul 1, 2003
    #6
  7. Clemens Arth

    Fig Guest

    Fig, Jul 1, 2003
    #7
  8. Clemens Arth

    Wes Newell Guest

    Wes Newell, Jul 1, 2003
    #8
  9. Clemens Arth

    Clemens Arth Guest

    That's the big question! What are the jumpers for? The support team
    from the notebook producer told me that the jumpers might be used to
    change the FSB but they didn't really want to tell me - you know, to
    take a notebook to pieces yourself is something they are not very
    happy about (warranty and things like that).

    You are right. I won't spend money on a 2400+ or a new 2600/2800. I
    found offers for a Mobile XP 2200+ for about 80 Euros / 75 Dollars and
    a Mobile XP 2400+ for 150 Euros / 140 Dollars. So I'll try the cheaper
    one...

    My current processor offers this speed stepping (that's why I don't
    think the jumpers are for multiplier-changes):

    Mult Voltage Speed
    5x 1.250 V 500 MHz
    6x 1.300 V 600 MHz
    7x 1.350 V 700 MHz
    8x 1.400 V 800 MHz
    9x 1.450 V 900 MHz
    10x 1.500 V 1000 MHz
    12x 1.550 V 1200 MHz

    CPU: L1 I Cache: 64K (64 bytes/line), D cache 64K (64 bytes/line)
    CPU: L2 Cache: 256K (64 bytes/line)
    CPU: AMD mobile AMD Athlon(tm) 4 Processor stepping 02

    (cuts from powerNOW! for Linux Kernel 2.5.73)

    By the way - the link to your page works from here (Austria)

    Greets!
    Clemens
     
    Clemens Arth, Jul 1, 2003
    #9
  10. Clemens Arth

    Fig Guest

    Fig, Jul 2, 2003
    #10
  11. Clemens Arth

    Wes Newell Guest

    Works fine from here. You can try this one. It's my own server. It runs
    pretty much 24/7 except when i'm screwing around with something.

    http://4.62.91.68
     
    Wes Newell, Jul 2, 2003
    #11
  12. Clemens Arth

    Fig Guest

    Thanks Wes that works fine here too hehehehe


    Fig
     
    Fig, Jul 2, 2003
    #12
  13. Clemens Arth

    Clemens Arth Guest

    Hi again!

    Ok, now I bought a Athlon XP 2400+ CPU. The computer recognises that
    a new CPU is there; there are no heat problems at all, that's good...

    What's not so good is that BIOS shows me 1330 MHz instead of 2000 MHz.
    Sisoft Sandra shows me 1350 MHz and the CPU really seems to run at
    that
    speed. This is, what Sandra returns for the processor:

    Processor
    Model : AMD Athlon(tm) Processor
    Co-Processor (FPU) : Built-in
    Speed : 1.35GHz
    Model Number : 1730 (estimated)
    Performance Rating : PR1958 (estimated)
    Type : Mobile
    Package : Socket A PGA
    Multiplier : 27/2x
    Minimum/Maximum Multiplier : 6/1x / 27/2x
    Generation : 7 (7x86)
    Name : Mobile Athlon XP (Barton) 1.6GHz+
    Revision/Stepping : A / 0 (0)
    Stepping Mask : ?
    Core Voltage Rating : 1.450V
    Min/Max Core Voltage : 1.450V / 1.450V
    Maximum Physical / Virtual Addressing : 34-bit / 32-bit

    Processor Cache(s)
    Internal Data Cache : 64kB Synchronous Write-Back (2-way sectored, 64
    byte line size)
    Internal Instruction Cache : 64kB Synchronous Write-Back (2-way, 64
    byte line size)
    L2 On-board Cache : 512kB ECC Synchronous Write-Back (16-way, 64 byte
    line size)
    L2 Cache Multiplier : 1/1x (1350MHz)

    Upgradeability
    Socket/Slot : SCKT-A
    Upgrade Interface : None
    Supported Speed(s) : 1.35GHz+
    ....

    This is what Sandra tells about the mainboard:

    Mainboard
    Manufacturer : MiTAC
    MP Support : No
    Version : 5a
    Serial Number : NB202018208

    Chipset 1
    Model : Mitac VT8363/5 KT133/KM133 System Controller
    Bus(es) : ISA AGP PCI PCMCIA CardBus USB i2c/SMBus
    Front Side Bus Speed : 2x 100MHz (200MHz data rate)
    Maximum FSB Speed / Max Memory Speed : 2x 133MHz / 1x 133MHz
    Width : 64-bit
    IO Queue Depth : 4 request(s)

    What's really bad is that there's an INSYDE Software Bios - Mouse
    Support, but no multiplier, no FSB - nothing. What's also a little bit
    annoying is that I told you about 4 switches (on one block). Ok, it
    seems that 4 of the settings are working with the old and the new CPU
    not changing anything. 4 settings make the screen flickering and
    nothing else, and the other 8 settings make the screen blank and
    nothing else...

    So I don't know how to deal with this... what makes me a bit confused
    is this Multiplier Info in the Processor Section (27 x 50 = 1350) - is
    this the same as 13.5 x 100 ?

    Clemens
     
    Clemens Arth, Jul 8, 2003
    #13
  14. Clemens Arth

    Fig Guest

    You need to change the jumpers to 133


    Fig


     
    Fig, Jul 8, 2003
    #14
  15. Clemens Arth

    Wes Newell Guest

    Well, you know this is BS. There's only 256K L2 on teh 2400+. Where it
    comes up with 512K is unknown. Maybe because it misreadws it as a barton
    which does have 512K.
    Uses VIA KT133 chipset. This chipset doesn't support 133MHz FSB. It just
    won't work. And you can trust me on that.:)
    One thing has to be happening. They are changing the multiplier bits.
    That;s easy enough to determine sincve the default multiplier for the
    2400+ is 15, not 13.5. i think this is a notebook you're dealing with and
    I'm not sure what kind of voltages it will supply to the CPU, but you will
    need more than 1.45v to get it much higher than it is now unless this is a
    mobile 2400+ (XP-M or something like that) At this point you could do
    several things, on of which is the pin mod here,

    http://www.ocinside.de/go_e.html?/html/workshop/pinmod/amd_pinmod.html

    but I don't know what affect this might have on your basically unknown MB.
    The other option, which will be safer, but harder to do, would be to lock
    the cpu multiplier by cutting the L1 bridges on it. That would lock the
    default 15x multiplier and it should then boot at 1500MHz. If that works
    out, you could then change the default multiplier higher. I'd still be
    worried about vcore though. It it doesn't provide enough juice the cpu
    won't work at higher speeds. I'd say you're pretty much in a pickle.
    Personally, I don't know what I'd do. Probably leave it as is if
    everything is working ok. Messing with the bridges is a pita. I might give
    the pin mod a go though. Seems like you have some choices to make.:)
     
    Wes Newell, Jul 8, 2003
    #15
  16. Clemens Arth

    Clemens Arth Guest

    I'll check that.
    IF IT IS a KT133 chipset it's ok but that's what I can't believe! I
    think there's an ProSavage Chipset in there. Why should they build in
    a S3 TwisterK Graphics Chip and a separate KT133 Chipset when there is
    an integrated combination available? According to the S3
    identification tool it's a TwisterK Graphics Chip 8D02 in there which
    is integrated in the ProSavage KN133 Chipset.

    http://www.via.com.tw/en/ProSavage Chipsets/kn133.jsp

    See what my clone distributor in Germany announces:
    http://www.archtec.de/produkte003.asp?nbid=powernotem&spec=yes

    There's still no answer from Taiwan - ok they're sleeping now :)

    I'll give the mods a try.
     
    Clemens Arth, Jul 9, 2003
    #16
  17. Clemens Arth

    Clemens Arth Guest

    Ok, the type of the proc is:

    AXMH2400FQQ4C

    So this really seems to be a Barton with 512kB L2 Cache. According to
    the AMD-paper the nominal voltage is 1.45 V. So power should not be a
    problem because the Mobile Athlon 4 needed 1.55 V. (heat? dieing only
    at 100°C ? I think that's a bit overstated...)

    Now let's go and buy some liquid silver and mod it...
     
    Clemens Arth, Jul 9, 2003
    #17
  18. Clemens Arth

    Wes Newell Guest

    Yep, sandra probably lying again about the KT133. But even if it is the
    KN133, which it probably is, they may not have put in support for 133MHz
    FSB. Or they won't tell you about it. Good luck with this. Notebooks are
    not animals I want to deal with.:)
     
    Wes Newell, Jul 9, 2003
    #18
  19. Clemens Arth

    Wes Newell Guest

    This explains a lot.:) It's a 2400+ XP-M cpu and does have a 512K cache.
    Why Sandra says it's a Barton. So the default multiplier on it won't be 15
    like the regular XP version. And that makes the 13.5 multiplier fall right
    into place. 1800Mhz (13.5x133) with a 512K cache would put the rating at
    2400+.
    Before I went to all that trouble, I'd exhaust all possibilities of trying
    to get the FSB to 133MHz. Are you sure it's not throttled back and might
    jump up to a faster speed under load. If I remember right, it reports
    1330MHz. That might be one of the power now settings doing it's thing with
    10x133. No real experiences with notebooks, so these are just wags. But
    the cpu default FSB is 133, and if the notebook bios is worth crap it
    should set it right. I' just rambling, good luck.
     
    Wes Newell, Jul 9, 2003
    #19
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