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AMD compared to Intel

Discussion in 'AMD Thunderbird' started by Tod, Oct 30, 2003.

  1. Tod

    DCstewieG Guest

    Stop saying site! It's cite!!

     
    DCstewieG, Oct 31, 2003
    #21
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  2. Tod

    Ben Pope Guest

    You sure? You got a webcite with a site?

    :p

    Ben
     
    Ben Pope, Oct 31, 2003
    #22
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  3. Tod

    rstlne Guest

    http://www.overclockers.com/tips284/

    Look
    Your a fucking nobhead, Aight, If you aint ever heard of it or seen it, it
    doesnt mean it's true.
    google it yourself
     
    rstlne, Oct 31, 2003
    #23
  4. Tod

    rstlne Guest


    Dont take any harm by it
    He's just a damn picky fellah "british ego ya know"
    he's like that to everyone, it probably means he likes ya heh
     
    rstlne, Oct 31, 2003
    #24
  5. Tod

    Ben Pope Guest


    Just prefer to get the facts across... there's too much misinformation about
    and I like to straighten it out.

    My intent is not to offend, maybe I should add more smileys or dress it up a
    little nicer... but I prefer to be precise and concise. :)

    Ben
     
    Ben Pope, Oct 31, 2003
    #25
  6. Tod

    DCstewieG Guest

    DCstewieG, Oct 31, 2003
    #26
  7. It's an urban legend that was started because of the pseudo science
    mass marketed to everyone by Tom's Hardware. Heatsinks don't just
    fall off while people are using their computers.

    If you treat your computer like UPS treats packages, yes there's a
    possibility that it could happen. But only fucking nobheads treat
    they're computer like that, right? You are just as likely to break
    other things in the box like drives.

    Do the tabs on the ZIF socket break? Yes, we've all seen them or seen
    pictures or read of experiences. But any I've read of broke when the
    user was installing or uninstalling the heatsink, not while they were
    playing Quake 3.

    As another poster said, it's not even worth mentioning that AMD
    doesn't build in protection against a circumstance will likely never
    occur to the vast majority of users, especially if they install and
    remove heatsinks correctly.

    Can the gas tank of your automobile rupture and explode like a box of
    dynamite in a rear end collision? Yes, I suppose it's technically
    possible. Will it happen? Likely not. Will you stop driving or
    riding in cars because of this possibility and ride a bicycle instead?
    Probably not. So let's put an end to the sizzling CPU urban legend.
    You are much more likely to experience a fan failure than you are ever
    to experience your heatsink falling off. In that event, you still
    have passive cooling. Your computer's likely to ring alarms and or
    lockup, causing you to investigate the cause of the problem. And
    while we're drawing analogies to automobiles?

    How many miles does the typical person get out of an automobile before
    the engine goes tits up? How many years for the typical CPU? Keeping
    in mind the cost of a replacement CPU and or motherboard, is this
    really an issue? If my CPU turned into burnt toast and took the mobo
    with it tomorrow, I could get a CPU twice as fast for $90 and a better
    mobo for $80. I'd call that cause for celebration because I'd have an
    excuse to spend the money, finally getting a faster computer.

    And to the spelling police, im sarry i insighted such raje in you by
    mispeling syte. ill nver doit agen.









    *´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·-> Ratz O. Fratzo
     
    -= Ratz O. Fratzo =-, Oct 31, 2003
    #27
  8. Tod

    Zotin Khuma Guest

    Well, I was working late the other night and unknown to me, there was
    an armed robbery going on next door. The police were tipped off and
    arrived with sirens wailing. The robber panicked and let off a wild
    shot. The bullet came in through my window and hit the wall. Pieces of
    plaster flew off and one particularly hard piece zipped into my
    computer whose cover I'd taken off earlier to install some additional
    RAM. That bit of plaster hit the locking spring of my heatsink at just
    the right (or wrong) angle and took it off. I also happened to have
    the Asus C.O.P. off and oh, woe is me, my 2000+ fried... :)

    Oh well, I now have an excuse to buy a 3000+ Barton and possibly an
    Asus A7N8X.
    Just kidding.
     
    Zotin Khuma, Nov 1, 2003
    #28
  9. I have never seen a socket clip "break off". I have been a Network admin for
    a mid size company (200+ nodes) for about 3 years and never have I ever seen
    a fan fall off.
     
    Scud Roker Jr, Nov 1, 2003
    #29
  10. Tod

    rstlne Guest

    The network admin we had at my company was pretty old and he had to send
    pc's out when the power supplys went, it was above his level. (Network) was
    the key word in his role....


    That was him and everyone is different.. I am sure this happens or you
    wouldnt be able to buy the lug repair kits. I would guess that it happens
    to people who frequent lan party's, and probably people who move on a
    regular basis, I used to drive my pc about 10 miles every saturday for a
    small lan party and given the weight, size, and pressure of todays hsf's
    then I would say an inproper install or even thousands of miles would cause
    it to crack and break.
     
    rstlne, Nov 2, 2003
    #30
  11. Tod

    Buffalo Guest

    Once again,
    If the cpu fan fails on a AMD cpu and the mb doesn't have the (C.O.P.) will
    the AMD fail due to overheat or not ( no mb monitors like MBM)?
    I believe the answer is Yes.
    That is the real point.
    Granted, nowadays with a modern MB, that is much less likely to happen.
    Would that influence my decision for my PC. NO.
    I am presently using a 2100+ Palomino on an ECS K7S5a mb (no nothing extra
    on this board :) ) so I am not an Intel lover.
    Many in this post are making a mountain out of a molehill and contributed
    nothing to the OP question.
    Just think, if I didn't put that / between the heatsink and the fan??????
    :) and enjoy your weekend (and listen for the sound of a heatsink falling
    off the cpu) (just kidding).
     
    Buffalo, Nov 2, 2003
    #31
  12. Tod

    J.Clarke Guest

    That's _if_ it attaches using the lugs on the socket. Many motherboards
    have mounting holes that allow heat sinks to be screwed down, and
    it's possible to place standoffs under those holes so that the heat sink
    is actually mounted to the chassis. Any impact strong enough to break
    one of those off will probably destroy the machine regardless.
     
    J.Clarke, Nov 2, 2003
    #32
  13. Tod

    Wes Newell Guest

    Then what you believe is not entirely correct. I can unplug the fan on my
    system and the cpu temp will only go up about 2C. That would put it's idle
    temp at about 30C. Running Lvcool and it would keep running and running
    and running.:)
    The real point to all of this is that it's not a simple yes or no answer.
    if one prepares the system not to fail if the fan fails, then it won't
    fail. If one doesn't, then it might or might not fry the cpu depending on
    many factors.
     
    Wes Newell, Nov 2, 2003
    #33
  14. Tod

    J.Clarke Guest

    So? Perhaps they have a more realistic view of the risks involved than
    you do. The solution to that particular problem is not some "monitoring
    program", it's to have two fans.

    Just to put the matter in perspective, very few residences have smoke
    alarms monitored by an external service. Now, how likely is it that a
    house will burn down and how likely is it that a CPU will burn up
    because the heat sink fell off and what is the cost in each case? And
    why should a person who doesn't worry about his house burning down worry
    about having to replace a $300 part?
    What you believe is irrelevant--when I have had such things happen the
    machine froze at some point and quit running, and when I let it cool off
    and put a new fan on it cranked right up and ran fine.
    If the "average consumer" doesn't "take those precautions" then perhaps
    you should consider the possibility that the "average consumer" doesn't
    give a hoot in Hell about that particular risk and that you are from the
    viewpoint of the "average consumer" overreacting to a very minor risk.
    30C, Wow? You're easily impressed. Try _minus_ 30C. Of course that's
    really rather commonplace these days.

    In any case, if you think that the most important consideration in the
    purchase of a microprocessor is that it not burn up when the cooling
    fails, I suggest you consider going with Cyrix rather than AMD or Intel.
    Personally that ranks on my list of things to consider somewhere below
    the durability of the ink on the markings. I've had far more trouble
    with faded ink than with spontaneous combustion of processors.
     
    J.Clarke, Nov 2, 2003
    #34
  15. Tod

    Buffalo Guest

    Many people leave their PC running 24/7 and unattended with no monitoring
    programs running that would shut it down if the cpu fan failed.


    Perhaps you have some super heatsink on your cpu.
    If you used the heatsink/fan combo that comes with a retail AMD and
    unplugged the fan, I really don't believe the AMD would keep on running and
    running. I believe it would 'fry'.

    30C, wow, that is not a normal temp for an AMD cpu with 'retail' cooling
    unless it is not turned on. :)

    Good point. Unfortunately it only works with certain chipsets, I believe.
    For the average user who wouldn't take those precautions, then yes it is the
    real point.
    Thanks for the input.
    30C, Wow.
     
    Buffalo, Nov 2, 2003
    #35
  16. Tod

    J.Clarke Guest

    I'm sorry, but I don't see what eventuality other than the heat sink
    falling off is addressed by this monitoring software you tout.
    I mean -30C. As in 30 degrees below zero centigrade, 22 degrees below
    zero Fahrenheit, 243.15 degrees Kelvin, 437.4 Rankine, and -24 Reaumer.

    I would give you a list of commercially available products sold for the
    purpose of running microprocessors at cryogenic temperatures, but I
    think it would do you good to research this yourself. Suffice it to say
    that there are at least two companies producing phase-change systems
    (the third one may have folded, I don't recall) and a larger number
    producing Peltier-based devices, and all of these are readily available
    to hobbyists.

    There are also some hobbyists who are experimenting with the use of
    liquid nitrogen for cooling. They achieve considerably better than -30.
    In fact they achieve considerably better than -_1_30.
    There are enough hobbyists and manufacturers of special-purpose
    machines running them at -20C to -40C to keep several manufacturers of
    cooling devices in business with such cooling systems as their sole
    product. That, in my book, is "fairly commonplace". The liquid nitrogen
    cooled machines are the real rarities.
    No and yes. I do not mean "+30C", however since -30C less than 30C to
    say that I do not mean less than 30C would be a false statement.
    Excuse me, but the hardware to maintain an AMD processor at +30C in a
    reasonably comfortable room during all phases of operation is most
    assuredly available at retail--I was in CompUSA today and noticed that
    they had a display unit on the shelf and several more boxed for purchase
    that is are adequate to that task. The hardware to maintain an AMD
    processor at -30C is also available at retail, just not quite so
    readily.

    Perhaps you mean the processor and fan that come in the box with AMD
    retail-packaged processors. If so, you have pretty much defeated your
    own argument as (a) that device is sufficiently lightweight that
    breaking the tabs off the socket is a non-issue (b) very few people
    who are too ignorant to decide how reliable they need their cooling to
    be purchase retail-boxed processors, and (c) computer manufacturers
    purchase OEM processors in bulk and put their own cooling solutions in
    place, so that heat sink and fan seldom get used in commercially
    manufactured machines.
    Well they why have you been so vehement in defending your viewpoint?
    There is an expression "damning with faint praise". That appears to be
    what you are doing--you are focussing on one minor issue to the extent
    that you have made it appear that that issue should have a major role in
    a purchasing decision.
    What smoke detectors?
     
    J.Clarke, Nov 2, 2003
    #36
  17. Tod

    Scud Guest

    Unfortunately, I have to do all the hardware installs too. I can see the
    clip breaking if your moving the computer around, especially with the
    weight of the big HSFs they sell today.
    I personally have broken a clip off trying to install the heatsink and used
    to much pressure. At the time I didn't know you could fix the socket so I
    just replaced the motherboard. Thanks for the info.
     
    Scud, Nov 2, 2003
    #37
  18. Tod

    Wes Newell Guest

    Lvcool is not a monitoring program. It put's the cpu in stop_grant state
    when the cpu is idle, disconnecting the FSB and basically shutting down
    the cpu during normal operations and the fan condition doesn't matter at
    all. Do a search on lvcool.
    Well, if you consider an old 297gram all alumimun HS a super cooler, then
    yes.:) I had a Thermosonic ThermoEngine on it at the time of the test.
    Not very good at all by todays copper/aluminum giant cooler standards.
    And you'd be wrong.
    You're right. With the fan turned on it was under 30C. In fact, it was
    only about 2C above case temp. 3-4C with fan unplugged. Now without
    lvcool it would run about 44C at idle, and there's no way I would have
    unplugged the fan. I don't know how long it would have taken to fry the
    cpu, but I suspect it would have done it within 10-20 minutes as a wag.
    Lvcool only worked with the KT133(A) series last time I checked, but there
    are others that cover most if not all newer chipsets, at least for
    windows. I run Linux.
     
    Wes Newell, Nov 2, 2003
    #38
  19. Tod

    Ben Pope Guest

    I think the kernel automatically uses that command, doesn't it? Or that
    might only be kernel 2.6... or I might have misread what it was saying on
    bootup.

    Ben
     
    Ben Pope, Nov 2, 2003
    #39
  20. Tod

    Buffalo Guest

    You must be kidding or you are totally clueless of the average PC owners
    awareness about their 'system'. Most don't have a clue. :)
    Irrelevent comparsion.
    What a stupid comparison.
    Besides, I was basically talking about the cooling system of the cpu
    failing, not just the heatsink falling off. I was just giviing the OP more
    info on his question.

    WTF do you think you are kidding? I doubt you even know how cold -30C is?
    (Perhaps you mean lower than 30C? It's really hard to tell what you mean.)
    -30C (22degrees below 0 on the Farenheit scale) is common place?
    Yeah, at the South Pole.
    You probably mean +30C or less than 30C. (Or do you mean 'easily impressed '
    is common these days?)
    No, that low a temp is very rarely achieved with the retail hs/fan on a
    newer AMD, unless it is measured right after first bootup.


    You should reread the posts.
    I never stated that I thought "it was the most important consideration in
    the purchase of a microprocessor" You sound like you just jumped into the
    middle of this thread or maybe just can't understand what you read. Quit
    making things up. You must have a good imagination.


    No, I am not worried about my 2100+ Palomino burning up.
    PS: Don't forget to check the batteries in your smoke detectors. :)
     
    Buffalo, Nov 2, 2003
    #40
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