Any ideas on the IC7-G spontaneous reboot issue?

[Randy Schroder]

I currently have an Abit BE6 with a PIII 1G Coppermine.

I just replaced my old SB Live with a new SB Audigy 2 ZS and my old Diamond Viper V770 with an ATI Radeon 9600 Pro--both a couple of weeks ago. Shortly after, I was getting the same types of symptoms that I'm reading on the Abit forums about spontaneous reboots while using Internet Explorer, etc. I think it was the sound card that did it (because of certain things that were happening, but not sure). I have since removed the sound card, but the problem still exists (with no sound card and only the ATI card installed). The ATI card has the latest drivers installed. Sounds suspicious for the ATI, but I think the uninstall of the old SB trashed something.

So, where I'm going with all of this is that this is so ironic to read about the same type of thing with the IC7-G in the Abit newsgroups/forums.

I've been wanting to upgrade to a P4 for a while and this seemed like a good excuse (since I was looking at rebuilding my HDs anyway because of the problems I'm having right now). I've eyed the IC7-G for some time, and now it seems to be having the same type of problem that I'm trying to get away from.

A couple of questions/thoughts:

1) I've read elsewhere, and also saw Tom G. mention to someone on a somewhat related issue, about bumping the RAM voltage up to 2.7 or 2.8 V. I would also get the Corsair TWINX1024-3200C2 RAM, which I think is good for the IC7-G board. Thoughts on this?

2) I'm wondering, too, how much of this is driver related, i.e., not having the latest on-board device drivers (LAN, sound, etc.) installed. Any thoughts?

3) I'm wondering.......is it possible that ATI even has an issue with their drivers? Has anyone heard of an ATI driver issue?

Again, I am on the verge of buying an IC7-G and now am getting cold feet. It doesn't seem as if anyone can nail this issue down to anything solid for the IC7-G. Can anyone say what the real issues are and what the solutions are?

Thanks
Randy Schroder

 

[Bill Drake]

Hi, Randy. Spontaneous reboots with high-load motherboards and high-load video cards are commonly caused by marginal Power Supplies.

Upgrading the Power Supply is frequently overlooked by many people buying motherboards. However, this is *by far* the *most important* component in your computer. Nothing else works well if the Power Supply is weak.

There is another problem:

Many of the Power Supplies built over the last 2 Years were made with defective Capacitors. These Supplies are an endless headache, since they are rated so they're able to do the job, but the bad capacitors inside the Power Supplies cause their output voltages to be unstable -- and this unstable power-feed induces spontaneous reboots.

Things to look for:

1. There are many posts in this newsgroup about defective capacitors on older motherboards. The same problem is rampant in Power Supplies as well. For more info, see the posts from Homie as well as the stuff on his website.

2. When (not if) you buy a new Power Supply, ensure that what you're buying is from a reputable manufacturer and has a *recent* manufacturing date. (Within the last 6 months). Even the "good" manufacturers may have inadvertently used the defective capacitors in their power supplies.

IOW, do *not* buy a "stale" Power Supply. The defective capacitors in older Power Supplies go bad simply standing around with their hands in their pockets -- as well as in use. And there is no fix for this problem other than completely replacing all the bad capacitors in the Power Supply with properly-manufactured new ones -- which costs more in Labour than a complete new Power Supply Unit.

3. If you are using a high-load motherboard (and a motherboard built for overclocking is a high-load motherboard by definition) along with a high-load video card (and a video card with an external power plug is a high-load video card by definition), then you *must* use a high-capacity Power Supply.

Don't even think about anything less than 400 Watts. Better to think in terms of 450W-600W.

Now some suggestions:

There are three companies that have good track-records when it comes to making good Power Supplies.

1. PC Power and Cooling (The Rolls-Royce of Power Supplies)
2. Antec
3. Enermax

I have personally used PCP&C Supplies. They are every bit as excellent as their reputation -- and have a price to match.

I have not personally used Antec Power Supplies. They have a good reputation, but they may have suffered from "bad capacitor" syndrome.

There are a *lot* of people who report instabilities using older Antec TruePower 400W supplies. The higher-wattage models seem to be OK.

I have personally used and installed many Enermax Power Supplies. I am running an Enermax EG465P-VE (FC) in my personal machine at this moment.

And yes, this thing is loaded to the gills. The 465 is the *minimum* I would install in this machine -- the 365 would not carry the load.

In your situation, I would recommend 465W as the minimum wattage you should consider for your new Power Supply.

Final considerations:

There are watts and there are *watts*. Power ratings from good Power Supply manufacturers are real-world numbers that mean what they say.

Power ratings from "no-name" Power Supply manufacturers are marketing hype and bear no relationship to the actual capacity of the device.

Do *not* be fooled into buying a cheap Power Supply with a high rating. The rating is fantasy. Expect a quality Power Supply to set you back US$70-$100.

Expect a PCP&C Supply equivalent to the Enermax EG465P-VE (FC) to set you back even more.

If you are buying a new case to house your new parts and the case costs less than US$100, you can assume the included Power Supply is junk. Even some expensive cases come with inadequate Power Supplies.

I cannot emphasize this enough -- Replace the Supply with a *branded* Unit having the desired rating.

There is no way to ensure you'll get performance and stability from your new motherboard, CPU, memory and Video Card otherwise.

Best I can do for now. <tm>

Bill

Randy Schroder wrote:

I currently have an Abit BE6 with a PIII 1G Coppermine.

I just replaced my old SB Live with a new SB Audigy 2 ZS and my old Diamond Viper V770 with an ATI Radeon 9600 Pro--both a couple of weeks ago. Shortly after, I was getting the same types of symptoms that I'm reading on the Abit forums about spontaneous reboots while using Internet Explorer, etc. I think it was the sound card that did it (because of certain things that were happening, but not sure). I have since removed the sound card, but the problem still exists (with no sound card and only the ATI card installed). The ATI card has the latest drivers installed. Sounds suspicious for the ATI, but I think the uninstall of the old SB trashed something. ...

 

[TomG]

regarding the IC7-G, I have had excellent results with mine and consider it among the fastest and most stable boards I have run. I have no instability problems with it at all using Corsair XMS3500 ram running the tightest timings available with a ratio of 5:4 and FSB of 244. PAT/GAT at Auto setting. DDR at 2.65 volts.

 

[Randy Schroder]

Bill

Thanks for all the great info.

As it happens, I did buy a new PSU (an Antec 480W True Power) when I started having all the problems with my current setup, just in case that was it--although that didn't solve the problem with my setup, like I said earlier, I'm sure I've got a driver issue right now.

That didn't fix my current problem, but it sounds like it should suffice for the IC7-G if/when I do get it.

I don't plan on overclocking the IC7-G at all, and I will just have an ATI 9600 Pro video card and [maybe] an Audigy 2 ZS in there--I'd like to see how well I like the RealTek audio first. Everything else I plan on using on-board devices for. So, it shouldn't be too high a loaded MB.

Thanks again for the info.
Randy

"Bill Drake" wrote:

Hi, Randy. Spontaneous reboots with high-load motherboards and high-load video cards are commonly caused by marginal Power Supplies.

Upgrading the Power Supply is frequently overlooked by many people buying motherboards. However, this is *by far* the *most important* component in your computer. Nothing else works well if the Power Supply is weak.

There is another problem:

Many of the Power Supplies built over the last 2 Years were made with ... inside the Power Supplies cause their output voltages to be unstable -- and this unstable power-feed induces spontaneous reboots.

Things to look for:

1. There are many posts in this newsgroup about defective capacitors on older motherboards. The same problem is rampant in Power Supplies as well. For more info, see the posts from Homie as well as the stuff on his website.

2. When (not if) you buy a new Power Supply, ensure that what ... a high-load video card (and a video card with an external power plug is a high-load video card by definition), then you *must* use a high-capacity Power Supply.

Don't even think about anything less than 400 Watts. Better to think in terms of 450W-600W.

Now some suggestions:

There are three companies that have good track-records when it comes to making good Power Supplies. ...

 

[Randy Schroder]

Thanks, Tom. That makes me feel a little better. I'm wondering, too, how much of all of these reboot problems are due to "non-recommended" RAM. I'll spring for the best--and "matched"--RAM that I can.

Randy

"TomG" wrote:

regarding the IC7-G, I have had excellent results with mine and consider it among the fastest and most stable boards I have run. I have no instability problems with it at all using Corsair XMS3500 ram running the tightest timings available with a ratio of 5:4 and FSB of 244. PAT/GAT at Auto setting. DDR at 2.65 volts.

--

Thomas Geery
Network+ certified

ftp://geerynet.d2g.com
ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror <----- Cable modem IP
This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!...
...

installed).

The ATI card has the latest drivers installed. Sounds suspicious for

the

ATI, but I think the uninstall of the old SB trashed something.

So, where I'm going with all of this is that this is so ironic to read about the same type of thing with the IC7-G in the Abit newsgroups/forums.

I've been wanting to upgrade to a P4 for a while and this seemed like a good excuse (since I was looking at rebuilding my HDs anyway because of the problems I'm having right now). I've eyed the IC7-G for some time, and now it seems to be having the same type of problem that I'm trying to get away from.

A couple of questions/thoughts:

1) I've read elsewhere, and also saw Tom G. mention to someone on a somewhat
related issue, about bumping the RAM voltage up to 2.7 or 2.8 V. I would also get the Corsair TWINX1024-3200C2 RAM, which I think is good for the IC7-G board. Thoughts on this?

2) I'm wondering, too, how much of this is driver related, i.e., not having
the latest on-board device drivers (LAN, sound, etc.) installed. Any thoughts?

3) I'm wondering.......is it possible that ATI even has an issue with their
drivers? Has anyone heard of an ATI driver issue?

...

feet.

It doesn't seem as if anyone can nail this issue down to anything solid for the IC7-G. Can anyone say what the real issues are and what the solutions are?

Thanks
Randy Schroder

 

[TomG]

I think you'll have a great platform and will enjoy it... good luck with it and post here with any questions!

 

[Bill Davis Jr]

I looked at Abit's Test Report for Memory Compatibility. I am running 2 pair of Cruical 512mb PC3200 and it is not on their list. I have been running them since installing my IC7-G back in late-May or early June and have not had any problems.

Bill

On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:35:47 -0700, "Randy Schroder"
wrote:

Thanks, Tom. That makes me feel a little better. I'm wondering, too, how much of all of these reboot problems are due to "non-recommended" RAM. I'll spring for the best--and "matched"--RAM that I can.

Randy

"TomG" wrote:

regarding the IC7-G, I have had excellent results with mine and consider it
among the fastest and most stable boards I have run. I have no ...

 

[John Lewis]

On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:35:47 -0700, "Randy Schroder"
wrote:

Thanks, Tom. That makes me feel a little better. I'm wondering, too, how much of all of these reboot problems are due to "non-recommended" RAM. I'll spring for the best--and "matched"--RAM that I can.

Randy

I have an IC7-G since the board was first released. It has NEVER spontaneously rebooted.

John Lewis

 

[Skid]

Crucial/Micron is quality stuff and cheaper than most. Crucial does recommend their PC3200 for the IC7, and several review sites, notably www.anandtech.com, shows that it is compatible and speedier than some of the more high-priced brands.

"Bill Davis Jr" wrote:

I looked at Abit's Test Report for Memory Compatibility. I am running 2 pair of Cruical 512mb PC3200 and it is not on their list. I have been running them since installing my IC7-G back in late-May or early June and have not had any problems.

Bill

On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:35:47 -0700, "Randy Schroder"
wrote:

Thanks, Tom. That makes me feel a little better. I'm wondering, too, how much of all of these reboot problems are due to "non-recommended" RAM. I'll spring for the best--and "matched"--RAM that I can.

Randy

"TomG" wrote:

regarding the IC7-G, I have had excellent results with mine and consider it
among the fastest and most stable boards I have run. I have no
instability
problems with it at all using Corsair XMS3500 ram running the tightest timings available with a ratio of 5:4 and FSB of 244. PAT/GAT at Auto setting. DDR at 2.65 volts.

 

[Skid]

"John Lewis" wrote:

On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:35:47 -0700, "Randy Schroder"
wrote:

Thanks, Tom. That makes me feel a little better. I'm wondering, too, how much of all of these reboot problems are due to "non-recommended" RAM. I'll spring for the best--and "matched"--RAM that I can.

Randy

I have an IC7-G since the board was first released. It has NEVER spontaneously rebooted.

John Lewis

Mine is very steady under normal and abnormal use. The only times I've seen a spontaneous reboot were when I cranked up the ram to well beyond its rated speed and looped memory benchmarks. Even then, it held up longer than I had any right to expect ;>)

The config below is so stable, it's almost boring:

Abit IC7, bios 18.
P4C 2.4 @ 275x12=3.3 ghz, 1.575v.
4x256 Buffalo Tech PC3700 @ 5:4, 220mhz, 2,3,2,6, 2.8v. All GAT settings at Auto.

 

[dickie98]

Hey Randy,

Bill gave you some *excellent* advise in the previous post. I think all first time builders should read it. I've built many machines *always* replace the OEM PS with a PC Power & Cooling unit. Trust what you're reading - the PS is critical. Spend the bucks and go with a PCP&C unit of at least 450-500 watts and you won't be sorry. They have a new 510 watter that even carries a *5 year warranty*...... Good luck, Dick Nethercot

 

[gandolf_one]

"Randy Schroder" wrote:

I currently have an Abit BE6 with a PIII 1G Coppermine.

I just replaced my old SB Live with a new SB Audigy 2 ZS and my old

Diamond

Viper V770 with an ATI Radeon 9600 Pro--both a couple of weeks ago. Shortly after, I was getting the same types of symptoms that I'm reading on the Abit forums about spontaneous reboots while using Internet Explorer, etc.

Big snip

Have you made sure there are no reg entries for your old gfx or sound card as these can cause problems like the one you got