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ARM-based desktop computer ? (Hybrid computers ?: Low + High performance ;))

Discussion in 'Nvidia' started by Skybuck Flying, Jun 8, 2010.

  1. Hello,

    Today Apple "released" the iPhone 4.0... I believe it has something like a
    1.0 GHz processor...

    I find that quite impressive, 1.0 GHz in such a small package and
    non-overheating ???

    Maybe to good to be true ?

    I wonder what the future will bring ?...

    Will we see the rise of "low power/low heat/low noise desktop computers"
    being powered by ARM-based processors ?

    Is this the end of Windows because it doesn't work on ARM processors ?

    Can intel atom processors compete with ARM processors ?

    What's AMD's answer to atom and arm ?

    Can an AMD/Intel single 1.0 to 2.0 GHz core be compared to ARM 1.0 to 2.0
    Ghz Core ? Would they both be about as fast... or would one win over the
    other ?

    To me 1.0 to 2.0 GHz seems to be the magical number/milestone/border/hurdle
    towards a good to great desktop experience.

    For 99.9% of my daily PC activity 1.0 to 2.0 GHz would be enough... this
    almost includes video processing at modest resolutions 640x480 or so...
    maybe 800x600, maybe even 1024x768... further enhancements/optimizations
    might enable very large resolutions too but don't count on it ;)

    For 1920x1200... 4.0 GHz is probably needed to run smooth and cool
    (strangely enough)... Or a really cool 2.0 GHz processor ;)

    Only gaming does need stronger graphics cards and stronger cpu's to do
    more...

    However software/technology does advance so maybe I could be wrong an maybe
    people will need more processing power... but I don't think so...

    Therefore assuming all people need more processing power is a bit
    dangerous...

    A good secondary strategy is to focus on low power/low heat/low noise/weaker
    processors to accomadate non-gaming related and non-high-performance
    tasks/crowd ;)

    I do want a low heat, low noise, low power computer, but I also want a
    strong, high performant computer which can do heavy tasks.

    I would love to have a computer which can be totally quite thanks to for
    example a ARM processor or maybe even an ATOM processor.

    I would also love it if the fans only go on when it's really needed like
    gaming or maybe huge video's.

    Thus I guess a system which can do both would be ideal for me.

    My current PC is already able to do this a little bit:

    AMD Dual Core Processor and NVIDIA 7900 GTX graphics card.

    But these two technologies do not take it far enough.

    The processor still needs a fan to spin.

    The graphics card still needs a fan to spin.

    The desktop still needs fans to be constantly on... <- This is the biggest
    problem probably.

    Therefore what is needed is:

    1. A motherboard which can control the desktop fans and even shut them down.

    2. Processors/Graphics cards which can do the same.

    3. Special software which can regulate this or special hardware.

    4. Debuggers to make sure no evil "shut fans down during heat" is in there
    to kill hardware ;)

    5. Temperature meters everywhere for safety...

    6. Emergency shutdown in case of emergency/accidental overheat.

    7. Fan spin up failure detection.

    8. Maybe even blocked air flow detection.

    9. Maybe even unacceptable noise detection and throttling of hardware to
    reduce noise in return lower performance.

    10. This would require microphones which might be too privacy-paranoya ;) So
    not a good idea.

    11. Maybe even build in temperature displays in/on the desktop case to show
    constant temperature of hardware at different locations
    in the case to feel "safe" :)

    Ultimately HEAT is bad though... even for the high performance situation.

    HEAT is unpleasant for the human beings... it can become to hot in summer.

    Assuming HEAT can be expelled from CASE and not be a problem could be wrong
    thing to do.

    HEAT also leads to bigger fans on buildings which is bad too.

    However...

    In the winter HEAT can working as heating device... and the problem is less
    big... it can actually be nice.

    Therefore producing more HEAT in winter is more acceptable... unless melting
    the polar caps is a bad idea ! ;) :)

    And yup it could be bad... many countries facing floodings ! ;) :)

    So maybe ultimately HEAT = BAD = EVIL.

    Try to use materials and designs which give great processing power but no to
    little heat ;)

    New inventions are done all the time....

    Are intel/amd/ati/nvidia up to the task ?

    Or will ARM take the cookie and the cake ?! ;) :)

    (Just some random thoughts of me on the 1.0 GHz in a tiny package ;) :):):)
    There is even talk of 1.5 GHz in iphone 5.0 wow ! ;) :))

    Please feel free to comment within the lines and fill in the blanks,
    misconceptions, pipe-dreams, yes/no etc ;) :)

    Bye,
    Skybuck =D
     
    Skybuck Flying, Jun 8, 2010
    #1
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  2. One problem which I see people mention is:

    x86 software does not work on ARM...

    A solution for this problem is the following (Not my idea, but some crazy
    noob ?):

    An x86 compiler which compiles x86 to ARM code.

    It's a bit a crazy idea perhaps...

    But x86 is a instruction set/asssembly language after all as well...

    And languages can be ported/translated right ? ;)

    Then for example Microsoft or the Users themselfes could do it.

    Microsoft's Windows on ARM could detect that the executable being installed
    or being tried to run is actually an x86 executable...

    Windows then starts the x86-to-ARM compiler and compiles the x86 binary to
    ARM binary... saves it and then runs it.

    With arm it is possible to add additional co-processors so maybe
    co-processors could handle some x86 specific tasks... for compatibility
    sakes or so...

    Maybe even an ARM/x86 hybrid ! LOL :)

    Or how about the ultimate crazy shit:

    PowerPC/ARM/x86/Motorola/ATI/Nvidia hybrid ?! LOL.

    Take the best of all or so :)

    Bye,
    Skybuck =D
     
    Skybuck Flying, Jun 8, 2010
    #2
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  3. Well my hardware from 2006 doesn't have all the features I would like for
    example:

    The motherboard has only one temperature sensor as far as I know ?

    I would like to see this increased like so:

    +-----------------------------------------------------------+
    | |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | | PCI Express | Sensor D |
    | | | |
    | |
    | Sensor A CPU |
    | |
    | NorthBridge |
    | |
    | Sensor B | | |
    | | Memory | |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | Sensor F Sensor C |
    | |
    | |
    +-----------------------------------------------------------+


    The CPU should already have a sensor.

    So I want temperature/heat sensors on all critical/heat producing parts.


    Currently there is only a temperature reader inside the CPU and inside the
    GPU.

    I want temperature readings outside the CPU and outside the GPU to known if
    the motherboard
    is taking too much heat...

    I also like to be able to see which parts of the motherboard are becoming
    the hottest.

    This could vary from situation to situation/case to case/cooler to cooler
    etc.

    Software can make a nice visualization of the motherboard to help the user
    understand...

    Or simply display the reading and provide a user manual that explains where
    the sensors are.

    The sensors could also be placed more systemmatically like so:

    S1 S4 S7

    S2 S5 S8

    S3 S6 S9

    Also my hardware from 2006 doesn't fully shutdown the fans ;) the spindle
    just slowly...

    Yet you say it has already be done... I doubt it... but if I am wrong...:

    Does anybody know a motherboard that has 9 temperature sensors ? Maybe even
    12 ? ;)

    Also my AMD X2 3800+ Dual Core CPU definetly does not detect CPU spin-up
    failure ! ;)

    It was failing every day... I tried to put some oil in it... after many
    weeks it suddenly started turning again at boot time...

    I guess the oil finally got soaked up or so to the shaft ! ;) ? Or maybe
    it's a bios failure that suddenly went away ?

    Also I rather prefer not clunky big heatsinks... it's just heavy... risk of
    breaking motherboard... and it don't look so nice... it might also
    obstruct the airflow if it needs to scale up.... Big Clunky Heatsinks are
    definetly a NO-NO for me ;) :) =D <- They are windscreens... windscreens are
    evil inside a pc ;) :) I need all the wind I can get in my PC to cool it
    down... unless I am in the desert or so which I am not (yet) lol :)

    Well you have made some claims that some to even all if this has already be
    done... I highly doubt that... but please do provide links to prove me wrong
    ;)

    Lastly it's amazing to see how fast Apple has launched new products.... like
    4 iphones in just 3 years ? Plus an iPad and maybe some PC like thingies...

    Doesn't sound like much... but I think it is... it requires all of this
    enginering of hardware and software... quite impressive ?!? But they
    probably worked very well together with others to help them out... that's
    probably quite impressive too :)

    I do wonder what happened to Steve Jobs though... he so thin ?!? Did all
    that WIFI give him cancer or so ?!? WOW ?! 570 wifi base stations he said
    during his recent presentation ?!? Wow.... that can't be good me thinks ?
    Can it ? :) Time will tell ;) :)

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Jun 9, 2010
    #3
  4. Skybuck Flying

    MooseFET Guest

    Such programs already exist. It is a clever trick that is used to
    make
    fast simulations of the ARM on a PC. Doing it the other way also can
    be done. It wouldn't be super fast but if you weren't trying to run
    a complete Windows OS, it could be fast enough to be used.

    Since the ARM can be had as a part of a FPGA, you could add extra
    stuff to the standard ARM to make the process go a little faster.
     
    MooseFET, Jun 9, 2010
    #4
  5. Back in '87 or so I had an Acorn RISC "PC", which had an ARM-2, and a "PC
    emulator". It simulated an 8088 and the PC's basic hardware well enough
    that I was able to use it to run a "scientific" word processor to write
    my undergraduate thesis. The "feel" was about as fast as an original
    4.77MHz PC, but I didn't run any benchmarks. I'm fairly sure that it
    would have been a straight interpreter: the machine didn't really have
    enough RAM to be mucking about with JIT compilation. This on a chip with
    no cache, no 16-bit memory operations, and which ran the processor clock
    at 4MHz or 8MHz depending on whether the DRAM-fetch in progress at the
    time was in-page or doing a row access...

    I thought it was quite a spectacular achievement.

    Cheers,
     
    Andrew Reilly, Jun 9, 2010
    #5
  6. Check out http://www.silentpcreview.com/ -- those guys are serious about
    Hmm... that's mosterd after the meal...

    Computer hardware needs to be designed from the start for low heat/low noise
    and so forth... :)
    He has gained some respect from me... he seems a more honest guy than I had
    expected him to be... at least in his presentations.

    However if the world turns into one big cancer infected place because of all
    the mobile phones and wifi's and gsm's and so forth than nope :)

    May he rott in hell then forever as well ;) :)
    What was wrong with his ex-liver ? Cancer from the wifi ? ;) :) What did he
    do with his ex-liver ? Bottle it for memories ? :p***

    Ain't he afraid of getting cancer from all that wifi ?

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Jun 9, 2010
    #6
  7. That must have been the Archimedes A310. The RISC PC did not come out
    until some time in the 90's, and this used an ARM610.
    It was, indeed, an interpreter, but of the 80186 instruction set. File
    transfers etc. were a lot faster than on a 4.77MHz PC, but a few things
    were a bit slower. The overall speed was fine for running the
    occasional DOS application (I used it mostly for games), but for serious
    work, you would use native applications.
    Indeed it was. Nowadays, you would use a JIT (similar to Digital's
    fx!32), so the speed would be better. ARM uses arithmetic flags similar
    to x86, so it is easier for ARM to emulate x86 efficiently than it is
    for, say, MIPS to do so.

    Torben
     
    Torben Ægidius Mogensen, Jun 9, 2010
    #7
  8. Skybuck Flying

    Robert Myers Guest

    I don't know. How often do you drive around people who drive will
    using a wireless gadget? I think I'd want to do some research before
    making any guarantees.

    Robert.
     
    Robert Myers, Jun 9, 2010
    #8
  9. What kind of hog-wash is this ? :)

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Jun 10, 2010
    #9
  10. Skybuck Flying

    nik Simpson Guest

    Given the well documented problems of the iPhone on AT&T's network, it
    may have even reduced the number of calls, well completed calls anyway ;-)
     
    nik Simpson, Jun 10, 2010
    #10
  11. I suspect that Joel was referring to (e.g.) the number of lives which
    have been saved, because somebody was able to call for help quickly on
    a cellular telephone, rather than having to drive five miles down the
    road to the nearest vandalized payphone. Getting help on the way one
    or two minutes faster makes a big difference in the survival rates for
    severe trauma, heart attacks, etc.[/QUOTE]

    Ok valid points, but I prefer not to get into such situations in the first
    place:

    1. Accidents along the road, don't be on the road, don't be in car, or plane
    or bus etc.

    2. Stay healthy, eat healthy, breath healthy, be healthy.

    I suspect that the energy in the wifi/gsm/wireless signals go through the
    human body and might trigger DNA changes to certain cells/parts of the body.

    The problem is that scientists probably can't scan the entire body for these
    changes ?!

    If they could scan for such changes then maybe they could prove that
    wireless energy is indeed causing DNA changes and therefore could increase
    the risk of cancer.
    I don't game as much as I used to... mostly because pirates like me have
    been cut-off from online gaming ;) :)

    And also maybe I grown out of it a bit ;)

    Ofcourse I will play Doom 4, Quake 5, Crysis 2, Battlefield 3, Call of
    Juarez 3 (maybe), Alien vs Predator 2 remake, Company of Hero's 4 (maybe
    even the free online version) and Red Alert 4 ;) (Mostly/especially if they
    have new graphics technology ;) and perhaps even sound technology ;))

    Those games are manditory ! =D
    Steve Jobs is promoting iPhones/iPads/iPods/iMacs and what not... and
    promoting all this wireless stuff... without even blinking about it or
    thinking about it.
    (And ofcourse integrating it into his products without even blinking or
    thinking about it ;))

    So seriously he is too blame as well...

    He would go free out/to heaven if he did the opposite: People watch out for
    those wireless signals ! ;)

    But nope... none of that... so that makes him guilty in my book ! ;) :)

    Perhaps his own "inventions" will take care of him for all of us...

    Perhaps he is driving a nice drive-by-wire car and soon he will face death
    by wireless energy fucking up his CAR !

    Such irony would be sweet ! =D LOL.

    Bye,
    Skybuck ;) =D
     
    Skybuck Flying, Jun 11, 2010
    #11
  12. Yeah good point as well..

    Bad wireless/mobile phone service might actually cause lives to be lost...

    Instead of trying to get the damn mobile phone working, which ofcourse
    fails...

    One could have gone to the nearest real phone and get some decent service
    and save lifes ! ;)

    Bye,
    Skybuck =D
     
    Skybuck Flying, Jun 11, 2010
    #12
  13. What I am worried about is that wifi/gsm/umts signals might become the
    "asbest" of the 21th century.

    Asbest is very dangerous and cancerous if only they had known better back in
    those days it wouldn't have become such a major problem/plague.

    It seems none-of-the-lessons of asbest have been learned by electronics
    industry.

    And no I do not feel guilty about downloading games of which I know that I
    would have never bought them anyway...

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Jun 12, 2010
    #13
  14. Skybuck Flying

    Robert Myers Guest

    As a professor of chemistry at one of our lesser local institutions
    pompously informed me, photons from cell phone radiation aren't strong
    enough to break the relevant chemical bonds (like, gosh, I never would
    have known from all that time studying physics), thus leading to
    possible mutations. What apparently didn't occur to him is that
    structural kinetics of proteins *could* be affected by the relatively
    low energy but coherent radiation from wireless devices. It would be
    really premature to conclude that there is no risk. People were dying
    of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (mad cow disease) in significant
    numbers by the time clinicians opened their minds wide enough to
    accept prions as a cause.

    I agree that the kind of wild speculation you are responding to is
    unhelpful, but the history of environmental hazards to health is
    littered with premature dismissals of potential risks.

    Robert.
     
    Robert Myers, Jun 12, 2010
    #14
  15. Skybuck Flying

    Jasen Betts Guest

    wince.


    --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---
     
    Jasen Betts, Jun 16, 2010
    #15
  16. Skybuck Flying

    Maddoctor Guest

    I'm pretty sure AMD has allowed nVIDIA to integrate its GPU to AMD
    processors especially family 10h core. The main cause was Dirk Meyer hates
    Intel.



    --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---
     
    Maddoctor, Jul 19, 2010
    #16
  17. Skybuck Flying

    nik Simpson Guest

    Pretty sure you are wrong there, AMD has it's own graphics business that
    competes directly with NVidia, so making life easy for NVidia would come
    under the "cutting of your nose to spite your face" category
     
    nik Simpson, Jul 19, 2010
    #17
  18. Skybuck Flying

    Maddoctor Guest

    No, AMD believes competition is good. AMD wants to secure discreete GPUs
    market by allowing nVIDIA to do its own APUs.


    --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---
     
    Maddoctor, Jul 22, 2010
    #18
  19. Skybuck Flying

    GMAN Guest

    Not after their GPU and chipset fiasco. I sit here with a HP tx1000 that cost
    over $1300 years ago , that now will not boot due to fried nvidia hardware.

    There are endless people suffering from this. Dell/HP/ even Apple have laptops
    with this hardware in them.
     
    GMAN, Jul 22, 2010
    #19
  20. Skybuck Flying

    MitchAlsup Guest

    I do not believe that nVidia has integtrated with AMD chips, it is a
    surprisingly difficult engineering effort withness the delay from ATI
    acquisition to integrated chips.

    The main cause 'for' buying ATI was that sooner or later the low end
    processors were/are going to need a 'pretty' powerful graphics engine,
    and these are not really candidates for either multi-core nor
    daughtercard graphics which add too much cost (to the low end). This
    decision was primarily Hector's and Dirk is just trying to make the
    best of what landed on his plate.

    Mitch
     
    MitchAlsup, Jul 22, 2010
    #20
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