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ARM: Smaller SDK than GCC?

Discussion in 'Embedded' started by Henry, Oct 19, 2003.

  1. Henry

    Henry Guest

    We all know that the GCC is free for the ARM7. I'm new to ARM so I
    downloaded several GCC/CYGWIN packages form various sources. I'm wondering
    because of the variations. I thought GCC is a singularity?? Must I all test
    them?

    The second question is if a development environment exists for Assembler and
    C which is much smaller than multi-megs GCC/CYGWIN ? I just want to write
    some small software projects. Is there a SMALL FREE SDK around? I'm dreaming
    of a 1MByte development system. Cannot see I'm the only one here witch that
    desire...

    What's about a simulator or a simulator tool I can configure for ARM
    architecture?

    cheers -
    Henry
     
    Henry, Oct 19, 2003
    #1
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  2. We all know that the GCC is free for the ARM7. I'm new to ARM so I
    There are a bunch of different permutations. Not including the fact
    that there are many "standard" versions of the three major tool
    components, there are also different build-time options (specific ARM
    targets) and different runtime libraries that might be included;
    newlib for deeply embedded, OS-less targets, uclibc for ucLinux, glibc
    for arm-linux, a choice between insight or text-mode gdb, ...
    I don't think you'll find anything significantly smaller than the gcc
    toolchain. The commercial tools are even larger. Why are you being so
    parsimonious with disk space? :) One thing you can, however, omit, is
    native cygwin(-targeted) versions of the compiler, assembler and
    linker (and debugger); some prebundled distros include those by
    default, for no compelling reason.
    gdb includes a simulator, but it's only for the ARM core, not the
    peripherals. Really, the best way to learn about ARM is to buy the
    cheapest possible EVB and connect it up to a system running gcc.
     
    Lewin A.R.W. Edwards, Oct 19, 2003
    #2
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  3. Gary Desrosiers, Oct 19, 2003
    #3
  4. Henry

    Henry Guest

    Hi Lewin -
    Thank you for your effort.
    Once I had my first Mac booted with 400KByte disk and even havd a graphical
    user interface...
    Surely I can boot Win98 here. The C:\windows directory alone is 565MByte
    great and I don't have a factor of 1300 for efficiency boost...

    To summarize: I (and others!) need a precompiled GCC/CYGWIN for the Philips
    LPC210x ARM7 running on Win98. At the moment I'm unable to configure it
    correctly. Surely I will need days to try all out and bug fix the make
    files, etc. I like the ARM for power and address space but the Atmel compact
    development system for the AVR is light years ahead ! In a matter of minutes
    one can simulate the first program and all for free. (Hopefully Ulf reads
    that :)

    - Henry



    Lewin A.R.W. Edwards schrieb in Nachricht
     
    Henry, Oct 19, 2003
    #4
  5. Henry

    Henry Guest

    Hi Gary -
    Seems that at least the Assembler at the geocities link is not fully
    implemented?
    Can I run in on Win98? Or on a Mac (Yes, I have both - one for
    compatibility, one for fun :)
    Cheers -
    Henry
     
    Henry, Oct 19, 2003
    #5
  6. To summarize: I (and others!) need a precompiled GCC/CYGWIN for the
    Philips
    The generic binaries provided by Macraigor are as good a starting point as
    any. Don't try to compile the toolchain on Win98; results can be
    unpredictable. I spent a lot of time wrestling it, against better advice.
    Not at all! I suggest you download my example (Atmel) ARM makefiles/linker
    scripts/sample source and use it as a starting point. (I'm about to start
    work on a Philips-based project myself. I'll talk more about it when I'm
    allowed to). It should take you no more than an afternoon to get up and
    running on the new chip.
    minutes

    Well, it's basically impossible to get flexibility without complexity. It's
    better to have a tool that allows access to the complexity than tools which
    hide the complexity behind rigid simplistic structures.
    AVR is a closed single-source architecture with tightly controlled
    proprietary tools. ARM - including Atmel's ARMs - is a partially open
    architecture, subject to a lot of vendor whim. And there is a lot more
    variation even within the core, let alone the peripheral set.
     
    Lewin A.R.W. Edwards, Oct 20, 2003
    #6
  7. Henry

    HG Guest

    Hi,
    If you can spare 250 EUROs then Ashling can supply a low-cost
    evaluation
    kit (ASK-2100) based on the Philips LPC2xxxx. The kit includes
    prebuilt and tested GNU/Cygwin for ARM with example programs for
    running on LPC2xxxx.

    See http://www.ashling.com/support/lpc2100/index.html

    The ASK-2100 kit includes an LPC2100 evaluation board with on-board
    USB ICE. The kit also includes a graphical IDE/Debugger and pre-built
    GNU ARM tools with Cygwin. The IDE/Debugger are time limited to
    45-days, there are no contraints on the GNU tools. Also included are
    GNU example programs that run on the board. Contact me if you need
    further info:
     
    HG, Oct 20, 2003
    #7
  8. Henry

    Unbeliever Guest

    Eeeek,

    Charging for a time limited demo program in this manner is a precedent I
    would prefer not to have seen set. Looks like we've reached a new nadir in
    marketing of accessories to public domain software.
     
    Unbeliever, Oct 20, 2003
    #8

  9. It includes the development board, with a USB - JTAC ICE. Not too bad for
    $250. If it saves me a day or two, it is well worth it's money.

    Its however not clear:

    1) Can the ICE be used on other targets or just for the on-board chip? I'd
    like to re-use it when I build my first LPC board after experimenting with
    this evaluation kit.

    2) Can the ICE be used without the 'expensive' IDE/Debugger software, I mean
    can it run from GDB using a supplied driver? If not, the kit would be
    worthless after the 45 days. Running a serial angel port for downloading is
    not my idea of fun.

    Ashling, any comment on this?

    Regards,
    Arie de Muynck
     
    Arie de Muynck, Oct 20, 2003
    #9
  10. Henry

    Henry Guest

    Thanks all for comments! I will try a couple of possibilities out...
    Cheers -
    Henry
     
    Henry, Oct 21, 2003
    #10
  11. Henry

    HG Guest

    No, the ICE is "part" of the evaluation board PCB.
    The GNU compile/link tools will still run (i.e. not timelocked),
    however, for debugging your only option would be to "port" GDBstubs
    etc. to the board (it has two UARTS). We include a flash programming
    utility (not timelocked) that programs the on-chip LPC2xxx flash via
    the UART interface.

    Rgds, Hugh O'Keeffe
     
    HG, Oct 21, 2003
    #11
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