Asrock 4CoreDual-VSTA VIA PT880 Ultra....

Discussion in 'ASRock' started by ~misfit~, Nov 3, 2007.

  1. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Oh well, after achieving what I consider to be a reasonable overclock on my
    "non-overclockable" ASUS P5PE-VM getting my E4500 to 2.93GHz at stock
    voltage it seems that I'm going to be getting an Asrock 4CoreDual-VSTA VIA
    PT880 Ultra anyway!

    Here's me, quite happy with the P5PE-VM/E4500 @ 2.93 with 2GB DDR PC3200 RAM
    and my AGP 7600GS when a mate calls around, says that he's getting a 880oGTX
    and a new case and HDDs and, if I move his mobo etc. into the new case for
    him he'll give me his "old" 7800GT PCI-e graphics card for doing the job.
    Needless to say, a 7800GT is quite a step-up from a 7600GS so what can I
    say? I would have re-built his PC for him anyway, I've been
    building/re-building his (gaming) PCs for years, ever since I told him I
    could build him what he'd been quoted, with better quality components, for
    25% less $ than he'd been quoted.

    (He said "Damn! I've already ordered and paid for it." Three days after it
    arrived he had to RMA it as it kept re-booting. He insisted on a full refund
    and got me to build him a better system for the same money. Since then,
    whenever he does a reasonably major upgrade I get "paid" by having the pick
    of the parts being replaced.)

    So, yeah. I guess I could sell the 7800GT for maybe NZ$180... Or I could
    spend $150 on a 4CoreDual-VSTA (actually already ordered and funds
    transferred <g>), make use of the 7800GT myself, and re-coup the money spent
    by selling the P5PE-VM, along with the Celeron 420 that came with it (1.6GHz
    that I BSEL-modded to boot at 1066 for 2.13GHz) to my flatmate. It benches
    50% better than her Barton 3200+. Actually, she wants the 7600GS too as she
    has some Dx9 games that don't do too well on her (my old) FX5600 so I could
    upgrade and still make a profit!

    Now... the Asrock doesn't have vcore adjustment (neither does the ASUS..) I
    just hope that it'll boot and run my E4500 at 1066 fine. As it stands I'm
    quite happy with what I have. A Core2 Duo E4500 (NZ$220) that, other than
    the smaller L2 cache, is running at the same specs as a Core2 Extreme X6800
    (NZ$1,530). Fingers crossed that the Asrock will do as well as the ASUS.

    I don't suppose anyone has experience overclocking an E4500 in an Asrock
    4CoreDual-VSTA? I'm not looking to push the boundaries any further than I
    already have, I'm quite happy with the CPU speed I've achieved. It'll just
    be good to have more GPU grunt (not that I need it, LOL) and the option to
    segue my way into the DDR2 scene. With the price difference already between
    DDR and DDR2 I'm sure I'll be able to off-set any "investment" in DDR2 by
    selling my DDR if I want to.

    So, a question I guess; Anyone OC'ed an E4500 on an Asrock 4CoreDual-VSTA?
    How did you go?

    Cheers,
     
    ~misfit~, Nov 3, 2007
    #1
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  2. ~misfit~

    Fishface Guest

    I *tried* to overclock an E4500 on an ECS board by doing the BSEL mod with
    aluminum foil and a little wad of post-it glue to hold it in place. It wasn't stable
    at 11 x 266 so I did the aluminum foil trick with VID pins to bump-up the voltage.
    It was still not stable, so I tried it in an overclocking friendly board. Still nope.
    But yours has already proven capable...
     
    Fishface, Nov 3, 2007
    #2
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  3. ~misfit~

    assesoffire Guest

    I'm getting an e4500 and a 4CoreDual-SATA2 tomorrow, it's basically
    the same board but with SATA2 support. I'll see what speed I can get
    with stock voltage. I've read that it hits a wall at about 290 FSB, so
    it'll be interesting to try out. I'll post here again tomorrow if
    everything works out.
     
    assesoffire, Nov 4, 2007
    #3
  4. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on the interweb "assesoffire" typed:
    Awesome, thanks! I've ordered my board but it'll probably take a few days to
    get here. The supplier at first said they were out of stock, would I like to
    pick another board. I forwarded an email I got from them a couple weeks ago
    where I enquired about stock and they said they had it, place an order. They
    capitulated and said they'd get one in from their supplier and they should
    have it today. My funds should clear today also. I've not dealt with this
    outfit before (but a friend has) so I don't know how long they'll take to
    get it out to me.

    Good luck with yours. :)
     
    ~misfit~, Nov 5, 2007
    #4
  5. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on the interweb "~misfit~" typed:
    Ehhhh! Just changed my order to a P5KE/WIFI-AP (and 2 x 1GB DDR2 800)
    instead. The supllier was mucking me around over the 4CoreDual too much. Way
    more than I planned on spending but such is life.

    Cheers,
     
    ~misfit~, Nov 5, 2007
    #5
  6. : Somewhere on the interweb "~misfit~" typed:
    : > Somewhere on the interweb "assesoffire" typed:
    : > > ~misfit~ wrote:
    : > > > So, a question I guess; Anyone OC'ed an E4500 on an Asrock
    : > > > 4CoreDual-VSTA? How did you go?
    : > >
    : > > I'm getting an e4500 and a 4CoreDual-SATA2 tomorrow, it's basically
    : > > the same board but with SATA2 support. I'll see what speed I can get
    : > > with stock voltage. I've read that it hits a wall at about 290 FSB,
    : > > so it'll be interesting to try out. I'll post here again tomorrow if
    : > > everything works out.
    : >
    : > Awesome, thanks! I've ordered my board but it'll probably take a few
    : > days to get here. The supplier at first said they were out of stock,
    : > would I like to pick another board. I forwarded an email I got from
    : > them a couple weeks ago where I enquired about stock and they said
    : > they had it, place an order. They capitulated and said they'd get one
    : > in from their supplier and they should have it today. My funds should
    : > clear today also. I've not dealt with this outfit before (but a
    : > friend has) so I don't know how long they'll take to get it out to me.
    : >
    : > Good luck with yours. :)
    :
    : Ehhhh! Just changed my order to a P5KE/WIFI-AP (and 2 x 1GB DDR2 800)
    : instead. The supllier was mucking me around over the 4CoreDual too much. Way
    : more than I planned on spending but such is life.
    :

    I'm looking forward to hearing how assesoffire's board works out. I
    love my P35 board. 450mhz FSB with a 6750 with everything set for
    auto (on a dfi).

    The e4500 looks like a great choice, too. There's a piece over at
    thetechrepository.com touting the benefits of choosing these low
    multiplier parts because the FSB overclock ability is apparently
    better than the high multiplier parts. I'm not sure I understand the
    rationale completely but it seemed to turn on early boot up issues and
    the CPU being far too overclocked to reach the point where the lower
    multiplier is initiated. I wish I had the link so I could put it
    here and beg someone to 'splain it but I can't even start up firefox
    to find it now (rebuilding box)
     
    Howard Goldstein, Nov 5, 2007
    #6
  7. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on the interweb "Howard Goldstein" typed:
    Yeah, I reckon. My mobo (when it arrives) supports 45nm CPUs so I'm hoping
    to get a few years out of the E4500, then get a 45nm 4 or 8 core CPU when
    they're cheap enough.
    Ohh, I wish you had a URL for that. My interweb is real slow right now but I
    might have a search for it.

    Cheers,
     
    ~misfit~, Nov 5, 2007
    #7
  8. ~misfit~

    assesoffire Guest

    I've overclocked to 2.8Ghz (255 FSB) just fine, I'll try going a bit
    further later, I tried 273 FSB (3Ghz) but it wasn't having any of it.
    I'll let you know later on tonight or tomorrow.
     
    assesoffire, Nov 5, 2007
    #8
  9. : Somewhere on the interweb "Howard Goldstein" typed:
    :
    : > I
    : > love my P35 board. 450mhz FSB with a 6750 with everything set for
    : > auto (on a dfi).
    :
    : Nice!

    I couldn't be more impressed with a motherboard than I've been with
    this DFI P35. I didn't have to do anything to get 450mhz other than
    bump the clock (*). That's a good thing because I'm still on the very
    early side of this OCing learning curve :(

    :
    : > The e4500 looks like a great choice, too.
    :
    : Yeah, I reckon. My mobo (when it arrives) supports 45nm CPUs so I'm hoping
    : to get a few years out of the E4500, then get a 45nm 4 or 8 core CPU when
    : they're cheap enough.

    I'm with you on this. Doesn't seem to make sense to throw another
    $200 on 65mm when we're going to probably see <$200 for 45mm core2s in
    two month's time. But what are we going to do when in those two
    months, yeah the 45mms are at $190 or $200 but the 60mm quad extremes
    are at $499?

    :
    : > There's a piece over at
    : > thetechrepository.com touting the benefits of choosing these low
    : > multiplier parts because the FSB overclock ability is apparently
    : > better than the high multiplier parts. I'm not sure I understand the
    : > rationale completely but it seemed to turn on early boot up issues and
    : > the CPU being far too overclocked to reach the point where the lower
    : > multiplier is initiated. I wish I had the link so I could put it
    : > here and beg someone to 'splain it but I can't even start up firefox
    : > to find it now (rebuilding box)
    :
    : Ohh, I wish you had a URL for that. My interweb is real slow right now but I
    : might have a search for it.

    http://www.thetechrepository.com/showthread.php?t=30

    It's in the bits where he talks about "NBCC" or something? I'm not
    clear on the whole concept but it did make me feel better that I
    didn't spend another sweet sweet $100 on something that would have
    made it harder to OC



    (*) not entirely true, my DDR2 1066 corsairs really need near their
    specified 2.1V or else one or two of the chips in one of the sticks
    starts barfing when run above 800, but that's even with stock CPU clocks
     
    Howard Goldstein, Nov 5, 2007
    #9
  10. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on the interweb "Howard Goldstein" typed:
    We all are. I've been overclocking for quite a few years now and there's
    always more to learn (if you have the money to keep up with the new tech) as
    it all changes with each generation of chipsets/CPUs. That said, the basic
    principles seem to stay the same.
    Why would you want a quad extreme? A Q6600 will likely clock to well above
    3GHz if you know a bit about what you're doing. I think that should last you
    until the 45nm CPUs are affordable. (Which will be considerably longer than
    "two month's time" BTW.)
    Thanks I'll have a look in a minute. I get a bit annoyed with TTR, their
    website often doesn'y recognise my monitor settings ( 1280 x 1024, Firefox
    2.0.0.9) and I have to scroll sideways to read. That combined with the fact
    that I struggle to follow a lot of the hi-tech stuff they discuss makes for
    a hard read.
    Yeah. I'm on a (very) tight budget. I just, 20 minutes ago, took delivery of
    my DDR2 RAM. Transcend JetRam, 1GBx2 DDR2 Dual Channel Kit. CL5, 1.8v,
    lifetime warranty. NZ$110. Less than I paid for a 1GB module of no-name DDR
    a couple months back.

    So, I have the CPU, I have the RAM, just need the mobo and my mate to get
    all his bits so I can have his old 7800GT as I don't have another PCI-e
    card. (Although I *do* have his brand new 8800GTX sitting on my
    workbench..... <eg>)
     
    ~misfit~, Nov 5, 2007
    #10
  11. ~misfit~

    Phil Weldon Guest

    'Howard Goldstein' wrote, in part:
    | I'm with you on this. Doesn't seem to make sense to throw another
    | $200 on 65mm when we're going to probably see <$200 for 45mm core2s in
    | two month's time. But what are we going to do when in those two
    | months, yeah the 45mms are at $190 or $200 but the 60mm quad extremes
    | are at $499?
    _____

    If you look at the current selling price of older Intel Extreme CPUs you
    will see that hasn't dropped significantly since introduction. For example,
    the 840 3.2 GHz Extreme edition is still ~ $1000 US. Intel itself has no
    reason to reduce the price of Extreme Edition CPUs since the price they
    charge has no relation to the CPU productivity but rather is a premium price
    for a very small market. Intel ceases production of Extreme Edition CPUs
    rather than drop the price as their FABs move to more profitable smaller
    feature size chips.

    Anyway, the next really good thing is the Nehalem in the second half of
    2008. The Nehalem will likely require a new motherboard and possibly new
    memory.

    Intel now has a tick-tock schedule for bringing out new CPUs.

    The Core 2 Duo on 65 nm that came out in 2006 is a tock; a major change from
    the Pentium D.

    The 45 nm CPUs coming out next week are a tick; just a die shrink of the
    Core 2 Duo. No other changes though the smaller feature size will result in
    lower power consumption and possibly higher clock speeds.

    The 45 nm Nehalem coming out next year is a tock; a major change from the
    Core 2 Duo.

    In 2009 the Nehalem will get a die shrink to 32 nm, a tick.

    It seems to me that if you now have a 65 nm Core 2 Duo then save your money
    for a Nehalem unless you want to move up to a quad core. In that case, a 45
    nm quad core might make sense because of the lower power consumption - but
    that is likely to be the only advantage. Otherwise, the Nehalem is the
    thing to wait for, not the mere die shrink coming out this November.



    Phil Weldon

    | On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 23:27:11 +1300, ~misfit~ <>
    wrote:
    | : Somewhere on the interweb "Howard Goldstein" typed:
    | :
    | : > I
    | : > love my P35 board. 450mhz FSB with a 6750 with everything set for
    | : > auto (on a dfi).
    | :
    | : Nice!
    |
    | I couldn't be more impressed with a motherboard than I've been with
    | this DFI P35. I didn't have to do anything to get 450mhz other than
    | bump the clock (*). That's a good thing because I'm still on the very
    | early side of this OCing learning curve :(
    |
    | :
    | : > The e4500 looks like a great choice, too.
    | :
    | : Yeah, I reckon. My mobo (when it arrives) supports 45nm CPUs so I'm
    hoping
    | : to get a few years out of the E4500, then get a 45nm 4 or 8 core CPU
    when
    | : they're cheap enough.
    |
    | I'm with you on this. Doesn't seem to make sense to throw another
    | $200 on 65mm when we're going to probably see <$200 for 45mm core2s in
    | two month's time. But what are we going to do when in those two
    | months, yeah the 45mms are at $190 or $200 but the 60mm quad extremes
    | are at $499?
    |
    | :
    | : > There's a piece over at
    | : > thetechrepository.com touting the benefits of choosing these low
    | : > multiplier parts because the FSB overclock ability is apparently
    | : > better than the high multiplier parts. I'm not sure I understand the
    | : > rationale completely but it seemed to turn on early boot up issues and
    | : > the CPU being far too overclocked to reach the point where the lower
    | : > multiplier is initiated. I wish I had the link so I could put it
    | : > here and beg someone to 'splain it but I can't even start up firefox
    | : > to find it now (rebuilding box)
    | :
    | : Ohh, I wish you had a URL for that. My interweb is real slow right now
    but I
    | : might have a search for it.
    |
    | http://www.thetechrepository.com/showthread.php?t=30
    |
    | It's in the bits where he talks about "NBCC" or something? I'm not
    | clear on the whole concept but it did make me feel better that I
    | didn't spend another sweet sweet $100 on something that would have
    | made it harder to OC
    |
    |
    |
    | (*) not entirely true, my DDR2 1066 corsairs really need near their
    | specified 2.1V or else one or two of the chips in one of the sticks
    | starts barfing when run above 800, but that's even with stock CPU clocks
     
    Phil Weldon, Nov 5, 2007
    #11
  12. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on the interweb "Phil Weldon" typed:
    Hmmm. Having just ordered an Asus P35 chipset mobo, which I'll put my
    existing E4500 into for now, I think my next mobo upgrade will wait for
    Gesher in a couple/few years, the 'tock' after Nehalem. In the meantime I
    might get a Penryn quad in a year or so. My purchasing timing and budget
    constraints mean that Nehalem will be too soon for me to do a mobo upgrade.
    Major system upgrades for me seem to be about 4 years apart (and then I
    can't really afford, or actually need them. However, everyone needs a hobby.
    <g>).
    --
    Cheers,

    Shaun.

    P.S. It's good seeing these Hebrew* names in recognition of the Intel Isreal
    team who re-worked the Tualatin to come up with the Banias, sounding the
    death-knell for P4s and NetBurst and being the forerunner of the Core series
    (and all that follow).

    *At least they sound Herbew to me.
     
    ~misfit~, Nov 6, 2007
    #12
  13. :
    : Why would you want a quad extreme? A Q6600 will likely clock to well above
    : 3GHz if you know a bit about what you're doing. I think that should last you
    : until the 45nm CPUs are affordable. (Which will be considerably longer than
    : "two month's time" BTW.)

    I'd want it to try a CPU with an unlocked multiplier. On the 680i I
    think I'm running into an FSB wall (is that the term when it won't be
    exceeded without upping the voltage to near wall outlet levels?) and
    thought it might be fun to squeeze out a few more cycles in the part
    itself


    :
    : > > > There's a piece over at
    : > > > thetechrepository.com touting the benefits of choosing these low
    : > > > multiplier parts because the FSB overclock ability is apparently
    : > > > better than the high multiplier parts. I'm not sure I understand
    : > > > the rationale completely but it seemed to turn on early boot up
    : > > > issues and the CPU being far too overclocked to reach the point
    : > > > where the lower multiplier is initiated. I wish I had the link
    : > > > so I could put it here and beg someone to 'splain it but I can't
    : > > > even start up firefox to find it now (rebuilding box)
    : > >
    : > > Ohh, I wish you had a URL for that. My interweb is real slow right
    : > > now but I might have a search for it.
    : >
    : > http://www.thetechrepository.com/showthread.php?t=30
    : >
    : > It's in the bits where he talks about "NBCC" or something? I'm not
    : > clear on the whole concept but it did make me feel better that I
    : > didn't spend another sweet sweet $100 on something that would have
    : > made it harder to OC
    :
    : Thanks I'll have a look in a minute. I get a bit annoyed with TTR, their
    : website often doesn'y recognise my monitor settings ( 1280 x 1024, Firefox
    : 2.0.0.9) and I have to scroll sideways to read. That combined with the fact
    : that I struggle to follow a lot of the hi-tech stuff they discuss makes for
    : a hard read.

    It's not just you. I'm having the same issues with FF rendering TTR.
    At 1440 pixels across it *still* doesn't fit. Have a feeling if it
    were a 1900 pixel display it would continue to be too wide, probably
    by exactly the same amount. A workaround for me was view it through
    (this is ugly now) the Lexmark toolbar (which is *must have for the
    cleaning*) print preview, and reduce the preview's zoom. I have no
    idea why that works.

    :
    : > (*) not entirely true, my DDR2 1066 corsairs really need near their
    : > specified 2.1V or else one or two of the chips in one of the sticks
    : > starts barfing when run above 800, but that's even with stock CPU
    : > clocks
    :
    : Yeah. I'm on a (very) tight budget. I just, 20 minutes ago, took delivery of
    : my DDR2 RAM. Transcend JetRam, 1GBx2 DDR2 Dual Channel Kit. CL5, 1.8v,
    : lifetime warranty. NZ$110. Less than I paid for a 1GB module of no-name DDR
    : a couple months back.

    Are those DDR2 800s?

    :
    : So, I have the CPU, I have the RAM, just need the mobo and my mate to get
    : all his bits so I can have his old 7800GT as I don't have another PCI-e
    : card. (Although I *do* have his brand new 8800GTX sitting on my
    : workbench..... <eg>)
     
    Howard Goldstein, Nov 7, 2007
    #13
  14. : 'Howard Goldstein' wrote, in part:
    : | I'm with you on this. Doesn't seem to make sense to throw another
    : | $200 on 65mm when we're going to probably see <$200 for 45mm core2s in
    : | two month's time. But what are we going to do when in those two
    : | months, yeah the 45mms are at $190 or $200 but the 60mm quad extremes
    : | are at $499?
    : _____
    :
    : If you look at the current selling price of older Intel Extreme CPUs you
    : will see that hasn't dropped significantly since introduction. For example,
    : the 840 3.2 GHz Extreme edition is still ~ $1000 US. Intel itself has no
    : reason to reduce the price of Extreme Edition CPUs since the price they
    : charge has no relation to the CPU productivity but rather is a premium price
    : for a very small market. Intel ceases production of Extreme Edition CPUs
    : rather than drop the price as their FABs move to more profitable smaller
    : feature size chips.

    What I saw with the pentium Ds is consistent with this. I priced out
    a used SL7CH I think that was a 3.2Ghz, a board pull at that, was at
    $220 and there was only one.

    :
    : Anyway, the next really good thing is the Nehalem in the second half of
    : 2008. The Nehalem will likely require a new motherboard and possibly new
    : memory.
    :

    I'm screwed then -- I've tapped out my motherboard budget for the next
    year with the three bought in 2007 :( Man do I hope you're wrong on
    this one bit.


    : Intel now has a tick-tock schedule for bringing out new CPUs.
    :
    : The Core 2 Duo on 65 nm that came out in 2006 is a tock; a major change from
    : the Pentium D.
    :
    : The 45 nm CPUs coming out next week are a tick; just a die shrink of the
    : Core 2 Duo. No other changes though the smaller feature size will result in
    : lower power consumption and possibly higher clock speeds.

    Is that like what we saw with the change from the B(2? 3?) steppings
    to the G0 steppings?

    :
    : The 45 nm Nehalem coming out next year is a tock; a major change from the
    : Core 2 Duo.
    :
    : In 2009 the Nehalem will get a die shrink to 32 nm, a tick.
    :
    : It seems to me that if you now have a 65 nm Core 2 Duo then save your money
    : for a Nehalem unless you want to move up to a quad core. In that case, a 45
    : nm quad core might make sense because of the lower power consumption - but
    : that is likely to be the only advantage. Otherwise, the Nehalem is the
    : thing to wait for, not the mere die shrink coming out this November.
    :
    :
    :
    : Phil Weldon
     
    Howard Goldstein, Nov 7, 2007
    #14
  15. ~misfit~

    Phil Weldon Guest

    'Howard Goldstein' wrote, in reply to:
    | : Anyway, the next really good thing is the Nehalem in the second half of
    | : 2008. The Nehalem will likely require a new motherboard and possibly
    new
    | : memory.
    | :
    |
    | I'm screwed then -- I've tapped out my motherboard budget for the next
    | year with the three bought in 2007 :( Man do I hope you're wrong on
    | this one bit.
    _____

    A tock is a MAJOR change The Nehalem is a tock and will NOT work with
    current motherboards; the memory bus is handled from within the CPU chip
    rather than in the chip set. The change from Core 2 Duo to Nehalem is more
    profound than the change from the Pentium III to the Pentium 4. Completely
    different FrontSide Bus, support for DDR3, additional instructions, quad
    core on a single die, some CPUs will have two dies, one for the cores and
    one for integrated graphics. Stepping indicates relatively minor changes, a
    die shrink is a relatively minor change.

    Phil Weldon

    | On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 19:38:36 -0400, Phil Weldon <>
    wrote:
    | : 'Howard Goldstein' wrote, in part:
    | : | I'm with you on this. Doesn't seem to make sense to throw another
    | : | $200 on 65mm when we're going to probably see <$200 for 45mm core2s in
    | : | two month's time. But what are we going to do when in those two
    | : | months, yeah the 45mms are at $190 or $200 but the 60mm quad extremes
    | : | are at $499?
    | : _____
    | :
    | : If you look at the current selling price of older Intel Extreme CPUs
    you
    | : will see that hasn't dropped significantly since introduction. For
    example,
    | : the 840 3.2 GHz Extreme edition is still ~ $1000 US. Intel itself has
    no
    | : reason to reduce the price of Extreme Edition CPUs since the price they
    | : charge has no relation to the CPU productivity but rather is a premium
    price
    | : for a very small market. Intel ceases production of Extreme Edition
    CPUs
    | : rather than drop the price as their FABs move to more profitable
    smaller
    | : feature size chips.
    |
    | What I saw with the pentium Ds is consistent with this. I priced out
    | a used SL7CH I think that was a 3.2Ghz, a board pull at that, was at
    | $220 and there was only one.
    |
    | :
    | : Anyway, the next really good thing is the Nehalem in the second half of
    | : 2008. The Nehalem will likely require a new motherboard and possibly
    new
    | : memory.
    | :
    |
    | I'm screwed then -- I've tapped out my motherboard budget for the next
    | year with the three bought in 2007 :( Man do I hope you're wrong on
    | this one bit.
    |
    |
    | : Intel now has a tick-tock schedule for bringing out new CPUs.
    | :
    | : The Core 2 Duo on 65 nm that came out in 2006 is a tock; a major change
    from
    | : the Pentium D.
    | :
    | : The 45 nm CPUs coming out next week are a tick; just a die shrink of
    the
    | : Core 2 Duo. No other changes though the smaller feature size will
    result in
    | : lower power consumption and possibly higher clock speeds.
    |
    |
    | :
    | : The 45 nm Nehalem coming out next year is a tock; a major change from
    the
    | : Core 2 Duo.
    | :
    | : In 2009 the Nehalem will get a die shrink to 32 nm, a tick.
    | :
    | : It seems to me that if you now have a 65 nm Core 2 Duo then save your
    money
    | : for a Nehalem unless you want to move up to a quad core. In that case,
    a 45
    | : nm quad core might make sense because of the lower power consumption -
    but
    | : that is likely to be the only advantage. Otherwise, the Nehalem is the
    | : thing to wait for, not the mere die shrink coming out this November.
    | :
    | :
    | :
    | : Phil Weldon
     
    Phil Weldon, Nov 7, 2007
    #15
  16. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on the interweb "Howard Goldstein" typed:
    A lot of people who are serious about their overclocking are finding that
    the best way to overcome FSB brickwalls is to BSEL mod the CPU so that it
    boots at the next highest FSB setting. However, as a man who's au-fait with
    TTR I'm sure that you know that. <g> That's where I finally found a reasoned
    explaination as to why higher bootstrap gets you past FSB walls, after you
    suggesting I might find some answers there.

    Apparently most chipsets set the latency of the northbridge going by the
    bootstrap setting. Therefore you're going to get to a point where you're not
    going to be able to increase FSB past bootstrap without errors, not for any
    CPU related reason, but because you're getting problems with the NB. The
    solution is to BSEL mod the CPU so that the chipset straps at a higher FSB,
    which then re-sets the NB latency lower, which allows you to reach a far
    higher FSB when overclocking.

    Ugh! Mayhap I'll fire up IE7 next time I go there. (I don't believe I said
    that!)
    Ya man.

    My mobo arrived 20 minutes ago. Have a look at this review, it's the
    P5KE/WiFi-AP, third one down:

    http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mainboards/display/asus-p5k_2.html

    The reviewer thinks it's probably the pick of the bunch, but then goes on to
    review the next-lowest model which has a different board lay-out.
    Three-phase power instead of eight-phase that the more expensive boards
    have.

    Oh well, I have my board and RAM, I'm just waiting for the PCI-e graphics
    card from my mate. I don't know if I can wait, I might have to do the build
    with a *PCI* GeForce 2 for now. LOL.

    Cheers,
     
    ~misfit~, Nov 7, 2007
    #16
  17. ~misfit~

    Ed Medlin Guest

    This is something I would like to discuss further with you....maybe after my
    surgery and I get back on my feet. I have the Striker Extreme 680i board and
    have heard about a mod that may help, especially with the Quads. I hit a
    wall with my Q6600 a lot earlier than I did with the E6600. I can only get
    the FSB up to the 1490 range and it takes a ton of voltage to even get it
    there.




    Ed
     
    Ed Medlin, Nov 8, 2007
    #17
  18. ~misfit~

    Dr.White Guest

    Hey geezer, I just thought I'd drop by and congratulate you on the
    acquisition of yet another computing engine. I hope you're putting that
    enormous power to some use - Christ on a bike, if you set BOINC running on
    all those machines you could probably find a cure for cancer *and*
    definitive proof of life on a distant planet, by about next Tuesday, with
    all them gigaflops you've got. Seriously though, the new 'help cure cancer'
    program on World Community Grid is worthy of a CPU cycle or two.

    I haven't done the BSEL mod yet, I downloaded a program by the name of
    SetFSB which like, changes the FSB within windows. Well, I got this E2160 to
    about 2.85GHz then it just powered down. Nothing lost - came back on fine,
    but I can't tell whether it's the chipsets' limitation or a bit more Vcore
    needed - for which I also found a mod:
    http://sg.vr-zone.com/?i=3904

    Of course it's academic to you with your new board, but it's interesting if
    you are working with a limited mobo. There is an E4600 due to hit the shops
    any moment, at 2.4GHz stock speeds and rumours of a 13x multiplier E4700. Ah
    well. Cash is tight and I can't afford a new gfx card a new and better board
    would require, and I kind of like this setup for the rock-solidity. I can
    dream though. Let us know how the build goes, and how far you can push the
    E4500. You've got a nice machine especially with that gfx card you came
    across. 'Asteroids' on a 7800GT should be smooth as silk....

    I reckon you've got yourself a bit of a habit on these Core 2 Duos, and
    understandably so, they are right dandy overclockers, and very nice
    performers, eh? It'll be interesting to see what the prices look like in
    January after the new round of C2D's hit the shelves. I reckon you'll have
    yourself a quad-core before long.

    Cheers mate,

    Dr.White.
     
    Dr.White, Nov 10, 2007
    #18
  19. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Heh! Well mate, my last few days have been.... trying.

    I can't get this E4500 to run relaibly at 2.93 in this new board no matter
    what I try. I've reduced myself to a state of abject poverty trying as well.
    First, an impulse buy, next weeks food money, an iCute case with a 24cm fan
    on the side that runs at about 500rpm. Nice case, big mistake, left me with
    no 'slush-fund'.

    The machine was so unstable, and the extremely complicated BIOS has a
    setting for "strap" anyway I decided to remove the BSEL mod. Still no-go.
    It's really random, one time it'll boot and run Orthos for ever, another
    time it'll re-boot when I open a programme or start to write a DVD. It
    wasn't that hot bot I bought a Thernaltake mini Typhoon anyway. It doesn't
    bloody fit, hits capacitors. I can't take it back as I checked the surface
    when i got it and it wasn't flat, by a country mile, so I lapped it for 3 or
    4 hours before discovering that it didn't fit. <insert four-letter word
    here>

    So, as soon as I get someone who'll hold it for me (flatmate's been away)
    I'm going to take to it with an angle-grinder, I /think/ I can remove enough
    copper to get it to fit without cutting too clode to the heatpipes. Grrr.

    Next, I think, "The temps aren't bad enough to cause these re-boots, maybe
    it's my PSU",. It's not a great brand and it's rated at 400W, with only 20A
    on the +12V. Mayhap, now I have a more powerful graphics card, the PSU isn't
    doing the job. So... today I went and spent every cent I could muster and
    bought an AcBel 510W with two 18A 12V rails, all I could afford that seemed
    to be reasonable quality (I've had AcBel before) and power. I'm still
    getting random reboots, even at stock speed.

    Also, it's always acted strange from the word go. I installed XP Pro and
    downloaded updates and whenever I go to exit wondows it tells me that it'll
    install x number of updates, goes to a screen saying "Installing 1 of ...."
    and stops dead. Everytime. So I'm reduced to running it at stock speed,
    eating grass for the forseeable future and it's still unstable. I can start
    it up overclocked to 266, have it run fine, test with Orthos, watching temps
    with Core Temp (High 50's at full load) then install something that requires
    a re-start and it won't even boot, the BIOS will tell me I have a failed
    overclock. What's up with that?

    Don't get me started on the BIOS settings. It looks like I could do amazing
    things with it, if only I could understand it. The manual doesn't help, just
    telling me the options in BIOS, the same as the BIOS does, without
    explaining what they do. I'm going to get it stable for a few days, then
    have another run at it. I might contact the mobo suppliers and thell them I
    could be RMA'ing the thing.

    Ho-hum.

    Hope you're well my friend,
     
    ~misfit~, Nov 10, 2007
    #19
  20. ~misfit~

    Dr.White Guest

    Aw crap, what a pain in the nuts. Especially since you're still having
    problems at stock speeds. The only times I ever got random reboots was:
    1. Using a 40-core IDE cable to the DVD drives instead of the 80-core and
    2. Bad SCSI cables
    ...and very strange behaviour has been caused by a faulty keyboard / mouse, I
    seem to recall.

    But really the only advice I can offer is to take a good rest and look at
    the situation with fresh eyes and look at your setup again. That said, I'll
    try some suggestions anyway. You know your E4500 is good, indeed, good for
    2.93GHz, and I think the PSU can be considered fine. Does your XP disc
    include service pack 2 - if not, you put SP2 on first and foremost, before
    the chipset drivers etc.? Sorry to state the obvious mate, but I've made
    errors like that myself.

    I've not had many of those update installs while switching off, but the few
    I did have looked to be taking an inordinate length of time. They happened
    eventually though.

    Lastly, reset that BIOS to defaults. I can't remember if you said what speed
    DDR2 you got - try telling the mobo it's slower, and perhaps run it in
    single channel mode. Check the memory speed and multiplier with CPU-Z and
    check you're not overclocking it. Check the reported voltages in BIOS and
    make sure your E4500 is getting enough.

    And I reckon you've probably already done all that, so it's looking like the
    board might be a dud. So with that said, I'll quietly sneak off before I say
    something like 'you should have got the ASRock' and you put your fist
    through your monitor.

    All the best mate and good luck.

    Dr.White.
     
    Dr.White, Nov 10, 2007
    #20
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