Asus P5E Front Panel Audio connection

Discussion in 'Asus' started by Ollie, Dec 2, 2007.

  1. Ollie

    Ollie Guest

    This card has only the ADH header on the motherboard and no AAFP header. In the some of the related boards, such as P5E-VM and P5E-WS, the situation is reverse - there is AAFP header but no ADH header. Then there are boards, such as P5B, which have both headers.

    The problem that I am trying to solve is to enable the headset connector in Antec SonataII. I think that I cannot use the standard connector in the prewired cable, but I have to connect 4 or 5 of the 7 wires directly to the ADH connector.

    Question 1:
    - what ADH pins I should use for FPOUT_R/L, RET_R/L, and AUD_GND

    Question 2:
    - what is the proper BIOS setting for
    One of the issues is that the manual defines these setting to control the AAFP connector and there is no AAFP connector on this motherboard.

    There has been several questions about the pin assignments in the AAFP and ADH connecters and here is the information I found from Intel. Please let me know if this is correct for Asus boards.

    High Definition Audio Link Header (AHD, Azalia Digital Header)

    Pin Signal Name Pin Signal Name
    1 BCLK 2 Ground
    3 RST 4 3.3 V/1.5 V I/O
    5 SYNC 6 Ground
    7 SDO 8 3.3V_CORE
    9 SDI 10 +12 V
    11 No connect 12 Key (no pin)
    13 No connect 14 3.3 V/1.5V STBY
    15 No connect 16 Ground

    Front Panel Audio Header (AAFP, Analog Audio Front Panel)

    Pin Signal Name Pin Signal Name
    1 [Port 1] Left channel 2 Ground
    3 [Port 1] Right channel 4 PRESENCE# (Dongle present)
    5 [Port 2] Right channel 6 [Port 1] SENSE_RETURN
    7 SENSE_SEND (Jack detection) 8 Key (no pin)
    9 [Port 2] Left channel 10 [Port 2] SENSE_RETURN

    In some other Intel documents the pin 4 in HD Audio Link Header is only for 3.3 V and pins 9, 11, 13, 15 are used for SDI0, SDI1, Aud RSVD, and Aud RSVD.

    Cheers, Ollie
     
    Ollie, Dec 2, 2007
    #1
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  2. Ollie

    Paul Guest

    Are you sure the green connector on the SupremeFX II isn't your AAFP
    header ? It kinda looks like it. Check for a legend printed on the
    SupremeFX II in white letters, as to what kind of header that is.
    In the third picture, you can just see "AAF..." in the picture.

    http://pics.computerbase.de/1/8/1/8/7/16.jpg
    http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/mainboards/asus-commando/audio.jpg
    http://www.motherboards.org/images/reviews/motherboards/1706_p5_9.jpg

    Both original SupremeFX and SupremeFX II have the green header -
    but the SupremeFX and SupremeFX II are apparently not interchangeable
    between their respective motherboards.

    http://support.asus.com/faq/faq.aspx?no=F5DB3B3D-7160-EFB4-014A-274DA817FB97&SLanguage=en-us

    Paul
     
    Paul, Dec 3, 2007
    #2
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  3. Ollie

    Ollie Guest

    I have not yet connected the front panel audio to P5E motherboard and would like to avoid the smoke. Please share your experience and advices.

    My new theory is, that the reason why the AAFP header is not on the motherboard is that the SupremeFX II card is included in the P5E package. Could you confirm or deny the following assumptions for the header at the back end of the SupremeFX II card.

    "High Definition Audio" = [Enabled]
    "Front Panel Type" = [HD Audio] This is the default setting
    1 MIC2_L 2 GND
    3 MIC2_R 4 -ACZ_DET
    5 LINE2_R 6 FSENSE1
    7 FAUDIO_JD 8 No Pin
    9 LINE2_L 10 FSENSE2

    "High Definition Audio" = [Enabled]
    "Front Panel Type" = [AC97]
    Pin Signal Name Pin Signal Name
    1 MIC 2 GND
    3 MIC Power 4 NC
    5 Line Out (R) 6 NC
    7 NC 8 No Pin
    9 Line Out (L) 10 NC

    "High Definition Audio" = Disabled
    Pin Signal Name Pin Signal Name
    1 NC 2 NC
    3 NC 4 NC
    5 NC 6 NC
    7 NC 8 No Pin
    9 NC 10 NC

    If this assumption is correct, then I should leave the default setting in BIOS, forget the ADH header on motherboard, and use the AAFP header in SupremeFX II with the following wire assignments:
    AUD_GND -> Pin 2
    FPOUT_R -> Pin 5
    RET_R -> Pin 6
    FPOUT_L -> Pin 9
    RET_L -> Pin 10
    If I will change the "Front Panel Type" to [AC97], then I will get the sound both in the headset and in the speaker system. The default value (HD Audio) is better, because it will cut-off the speakers, when the headset plug is inserted in the front panel.

    In addition of the AAFP in the SupremeFX II, there is another, smaller header. What would be its purpose?

    Cheers, Ollie

    PS. I did google SupremeFX and browsed through AsusTek web site to find the manual for SupremeFX, but didn't find it. What is the URL for the manual?
    "Ollie" <olivili at hot mail dot c o m> wrote in message This card has only the ADH header on the motherboard and no AAFP header. In the some of the related boards, such as P5E-VM and P5E-WS, the situation is reverse - there is AAFP header but no ADH header. Then there are boards, such as P5B, which have both headers.

    The problem that I am trying to solve is to enable the headset connector in Antec SonataII. I think that I cannot use the standard connector in the prewired cable, but I have to connect 4 or 5 of the 7 wires directly to the ADH connector.

    Question 1:
    - what ADH pins I should use for FPOUT_R/L, RET_R/L, and AUD_GND

    Question 2:
    - what is the proper BIOS setting for
    One of the issues is that the manual defines these setting to control the AAFP connector and there is no AAFP connector on this motherboard.

    There has been several questions about the pin assignments in the AAFP and ADH connecters and here is the information I found from Intel. Please let me know if this is correct for Asus boards.

    High Definition Audio Link Header (AHD, Azalia Digital Header)

    Pin Signal Name Pin Signal Name
    1 BCLK 2 Ground
    3 RST 4 3.3 V/1.5 V I/O
    5 SYNC 6 Ground
    7 SDO 8 3.3V_CORE
    9 SDI 10 +12 V
    11 No connect 12 Key (no pin)
    13 No connect 14 3.3 V/1.5V STBY
    15 No connect 16 Ground

    Front Panel Audio Header (AAFP, Analog Audio Front Panel)

    Pin Signal Name Pin Signal Name
    1 [Port 1] Left channel 2 Ground
    3 [Port 1] Right channel 4 PRESENCE# (Dongle present)
    5 [Port 2] Right channel 6 [Port 1] SENSE_RETURN
    7 SENSE_SEND (Jack detection) 8 Key (no pin)
    9 [Port 2] Left channel 10 [Port 2] SENSE_RETURN

    In some other Intel documents the pin 4 in HD Audio Link Header is only for 3.3 V and pins 9, 11, 13, 15 are used for SDI0, SDI1, Aud RSVD, and Aud RSVD.

    Cheers, Ollie
     
    Ollie, Dec 3, 2007
    #3
  4. Ollie

    Ollie Guest

    Paul,

    Thanks - you gave an answer for my follow-up questions, even before I had
    posted them.

    In this picture, it looks like there is another header in the SuprmeFX II in
    addition of the AAFP1 green header.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowI...=1&Description=ASUS+P5E+ATX+Intel+Motherboard

    Do you know what it could be? In the
    http://pics.computerbase.de/1/8/1/8/7/16.jpg picture it looks like a extra
    power supply connector.

    Best Regards, Ollie
     
    Ollie, Dec 3, 2007
    #4
  5. Ollie

    Paul Guest

    Again, check for any legend text printed in white letters.
    The connector looks to be an "Aux" or "CD" four pin connector.
    I have examples like that, on the surface of my P4C800-E Deluxe
    board. That would be my guess, but check to see of you see
    some letters printed next to it.

    A "CD" one would not be needed, because you can set the optical
    drive to use "DAE" or digital audio extraction. So it isn't necessary
    to string an "antenna" between the CDROM and the sound card. Sometimes,
    you end up getting noise pickup using the old analog cable method.

    The four pin "Aux" one might be something you'd use, between a TV capture card
    and the sound solution. On my TV card, there is a connector on the
    faceplate instead, and that is how the TV sound gets to my sound card.
    (If the thing had been designed properly, it would also have been
    possible for the sound to be handled completely by the TV card, but
    I guess one of their engineers was asleep.)

    Paul
     
    Paul, Dec 3, 2007
    #5
  6. Ollie

    Paul Guest

    I agree that with the Sonata, only five wires should be connected.

    Basically, the Sonata jacks have three contacts (tip, ring, sleeve).
    MIC and MIC_PWR are tip and ring on the microphone jack.
    LINEOUT_L and LINEOUT_R are tip and ring on the headphone jack.
    Audio_GND is a common ground for sleeve on both jacks.

    That means 1,3,5, and 9 on one side are to be connected
    (MIC, MIC_PWR, LINEOUT_R, LINEOUT_L). And the ground on
    pin 2 is AUD_GND on the Sonata. There is no need to wire
    up the return wires, because an HDAudio system (faking AC'97 header)
    does not use the return signals.

    (This is copied from a Sonata manual I have on disk. Don't
    connect item 6 and 7. I added signal names to the end of each line.)
    1. Microphone Signal Pin: Connect the MIC connector to this pin. MIC
    2. Microphone Power: Connect the MIC-BIAS connector to this pin. MIC_PWR
    3. Ground Pin: Connect the AUD GND connector to this pin. GND
    4. Front Right Speaker Out Pin: Connect the FPOUT-R connector to this pin. LINEOUT_R
    5. Front Right Speaker Out Pin: Connect the FPOUT-L connector to this pin. LINEOUT_L
    6. Rear Right Speaker Out Pin: Connect the RET-R connector to this pin.
    7. Rear Left Speaker Out Pin: Connect RET-L connector to this pin.

    HDAudio has enough channels in the sound chip, that return
    signals are not needed (to support a sound muting function
    when the headphones are plugged in). HDAudio can fake the
    mute function, simply by having separate sound channels for
    everything, detecting when headphones have been plugged in,
    and then muting the green connector on the back of the computer.

    One thing I do not understand about current HDaudio silicon, is
    how the jack sensing is done. I know that some companies have
    patents for audio sensing, where they measure the impedance
    of the connected device. The connected device is not DC
    connected, as virtually every input and output on a
    sound chip is AC coupled with a small capacitor. When you look
    around the sound chip, you should see a pile of small caps for
    that purpose. To measure the impedance, they'd need to do
    something like insert an ultrasonic signal into the jack,
    and sense the current flow. Or something similar. The
    exact mechanism is never detailed in the CODEC datasheets.

    The Azalia standard from Intel, addresses the use of "side contact"
    pairs on the jack. The jack has tip, ring, and sleeve. That
    is three contacts. But, in theory, a jack can also have an
    isolated pair of switch contacts, and the switch closes when
    a plug is inserted in the jack. These switches are connected
    to (2) four resistor trees, so that a total of eight jacks
    can be sensed. The varying DC voltage value from the resistor
    tree, is fed to a couple sense pins on the CODEC, digitized,
    and that gives a four bit value for each tree, indicating which
    jacks have plugs in them. All the complexity is necessary, so that
    only a couple pins are needed on the CODEC, to detect jack
    presence.

    Since the vast majority of computer cases are still AC'97, they
    don't have the side contacts on the jack. The last time I looked,
    I wasn't even able to find the proper jack for sale to do it.

    That means jack sensing is done using the proprietary or patented
    method, without need for the resistor ladder or sense pins. It
    means "FSENSE1" and "FSENSE2" in the above table wouldn't be
    needed, and neither would there be a need for PRESENCE#, since
    the header is not HDaudio.

    So only five wires should be needed, just enough to get the
    basic audio signals to the two jacks in question. The rest of
    it seems to be covered by the CODEC, by means I don't understand.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Dec 3, 2007
    #6
  7. Ollie

    RobV Guest

    [snip]

    Hi, Ollie. This is a text only news group. HTML is not good here,
    since many news readers only see code and not the information when HTML
    is sent. What you need to do, is go to Tools> Options, then click on
    the Send tab. At the bottom, where it says "News Sending Format",
    select Plain Text.

    Thank you, and good luck with fixing the problem.
     
    RobV, Dec 3, 2007
    #7
  8. Ollie

    Ollie Guest

    Paul,

    Thanks for the detailed explanations.

    Cheers, Ollie

    PS. I got my P5E just today and I can confirm that the other connector is
    for audio input from DVD/CD. If I only had the SupremeFX II manual, it would
    be a nice bonus.

     
    Ollie, Dec 5, 2007
    #8
  9. Ollie

    Paul Guest

    Guessing at the connections isn't a lot of fun. It would at least
    be nice for them to confirm that standard pinouts are being used.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Dec 5, 2007
    #9
  10. Ollie

    Paul Guest

    The original thread is here.

    http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.c..._frm/thread/9a7f1f8c7795f81d/17a5e5fe3a217610

    And is the motherboard P5E, or is it some other motherboard ?
    It would be nice to verify the actual motherboard you're
    using, just to be sure.

    On P5E, the ADH is a digital header. What you're looking for is
    analog signals, for a microphone and headphone on the front of
    the computer.

    The AAFP connector on the Supreme FX II card, is where you want to be
    connected. You will be connecting only five wires. Line_R and Line_L
    have no place to connect to. Your front panel "Line" jack will not
    work. Only "MIC" and "EAR" will work.

    - mic in
    - mic vcc
    - line r (make no connection)
    - line l (make no connection)
    - ear r
    - ear l
    - gnd

    AAFP should follow the standard pinout. The "missing pin 8", is
    how you tell which pin is which. AAFP connector should have a total
    of nine pins. You will be making connections to pin 1,3,5,9, and pin 2.

    Pin Signal Pin Signal Name
    - mic in 1 [Port 1] Left channel 2 Ground - gnd
    - mic vcc 3 [Port 1] Right channel 4 PRESENCE# (Dongle present)
    - ear r 5 [Port 2] Right channel 6 [Port 1] SENSE_RETURN
    7 SENSE_SEND (Jack detection)
    - ear l 9 [Port 2] Left channel 10 Port 2] SENSE_RETURN

    In the BIOS, you can try setting the Front Panel Support Type to
    AC97. I don't know exactly how that part works, or whether there is
    a setting in the custom sound control panel in Windows for that selection.
    Try the BIOS first.

    HTH,
    Paul
     
    Paul, Sep 26, 2009
    #10
  11. Ollie

    GMAN Guest

    Set the bios for AC97 mode, then download the following and look at page 21

    http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/A2928604-005.pdf


    And study here too!!!!!!!!!

    http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/sb/CS-015851.htm


    The way it works is if its wired correctly, when you plug in your headset or
    microphone, it should disable the rear PC speakers, then when you unplug, the
    rear speakers return to normal.


    mic in = Pin 1

    gnd = Pin 2

    mic vcc = Pin 3

    ear r = Pin 5

    line r = Pin 6

    ear l = Pin 9

    line l = Pin 10


    Also when done, reinstall the audio software for the SupremeFX II card either
    off of the support CD or get the latest from Asus.


    I have heard that someone that was having problems had to reinstall the
    drivers after making some changes cause windows wouldnt detect some wiring
    changes.
     
    GMAN, Sep 27, 2009
    #11
  12. Ollie

    Paul Guest

    Based on your answer, I can see my interpretation of the wire names
    was incorrect. Normally, the cable should have "ret-r" and "ret-l",
    which are the AC'97 return signals from ear-r and ear-l. So perhaps
    they've changed those two signal names to something less meaningful.

    I stand by my original answer, including wiring table. The wiring only
    needs five wires in this case. I'll go though the connector cases,
    but the OP can ignore what follows.

    *******

    There are three header connector configurations.

    The original AC'97 header. This predates the introduction of
    HDAudio. (The OP's Supreme FX II is an HDaudio device.)

    http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/fpio_design_guideline.pdf (page 20)

    AUD_MIC AUD_GND
    AUD_MIC_BIAS AUD_VCC (+5V filtered)
    AUD_FPOUT_R AUD_RET_R
    HP_ON
    AUD_FPOUT_L AUD_RET_L

    That standard supports muting as follows. The CODEC sends a line level
    signal to FPOUT_R and FPOUT_L. The signal enters the front panel connector. A
    side contact switch, sends the audio signal back and it gets connected
    to RET_R and RET_L. If no headphone plug is installed in the front jack,
    then the signal flows back via RET_R and RET_L. RET_R and RET_L are hooked
    directly to the computer rear green colored "Line_out" jack. The muting
    function is thus, implemented with switches in the headphone hack on the
    front of the computer. When you plug in headphones, the switches open,
    killing the signal on the rear green Line_out jack. This allows the headphones
    to mute the function of the front speakers, wired to the green Line_out
    jack on the back of the computer.

    When Intel did their HDaudio spec, not only did they invent a new pinout
    for the 2x5 connector for HDAudio, they also redefined the AC'97 header.
    (Which is, strictly speaking, a stupid thing to do.) That basically
    makes it less compatible, with all possible applications of AC'97 that
    case manufacturers may have chosen to use in the past.

    First of all, one difference with the HDaudio codec chip, is it has more channels
    on it. The "ret-r" and "ret-l" muting concept is no longer required. Muting
    can be electronic, as sensed by the codec chip, rather than relying on switches
    in the headphone jack. Thus, the basic "analog" signals of interest, look
    like this. These signals exist on both the HDAudio pinout, and also
    the HDAudio redefinition of AC'97. So you cannot go wrong, by hooking
    analog wiring to these pins.

    AUD_MIC AUD_GND
    AUD_MIC_BIAS ---
    AUD_FPOUT_R ---
    ---
    AUD+FPOUT_L ---

    This is the HDAudio pin definition. Intel renamed the MIC and Headphone (FPOUT)
    signals, to "Port", to emphasize the fact that the connections are retaskable.
    You can plug a headphone into a mic jack. Or a mic into a headphone jack. The
    codec senses this, the driver software asks "did you plug in headphones?" in
    a popup box. The user "retasks" the jack as required, by answering the
    questions.

    PORT1L (MIC) GND (AUD_GND)
    PORT1R (MIC_BIAS) PRESENCE#
    PORT2R (HEADPHONE_R) SENSE1_RETURN
    SENSE_SEND
    PORT2L (HEADPHONE_L) SENSE2_RETURN

    The four remaining signals include PRESENCE#, a signal you ground, to indicate
    you're providing SENSE info. The SENSE send and return signals, are part
    of the mechanism the front (true HDAudio) panel jacks would provide.

    Very few jacks have the isolated side contacts to connect to SENSE send and
    return. HDAudio chips rely on impedance sensing, to detect the presence of
    a new connection. The SENSE send and return, are tied into a resistor tree,
    which in turn feeds an ADC converter at the CODEC. The CODEC gets a four
    bit code from the ADC, which tells it which jacks isolated switch has closed
    or opened. This complex mechanism is used, to reduce the number of pins
    on the side of the Codec chip.

    So, since HDaudio has redefined the RET_R and RET_L pins, you should
    not be using them any more, for the redefined AC'97.

    For an HDAudio motherboard which mentions support for AC'97, these are
    the signals you can depend on. This is the picture you should find in
    a motherboard manual. The reason the other pins are dashed, is because
    a user should not wire all the AC'97 wires from the front panel, to the
    old places they used to go. Only five wires are needed. You don't want
    to upset the SENSE function, by wiring audio RET_R and RET_L to them.

    AUD_MIC AUD_GND
    AUD_MIC_BIAS ---
    AUD_FPOUT_R ---
    ---
    AUD+FPOUT_L ---

    *******

    So that leaves three header definitions.

    Original AC'97 motherboard. Wire up seven wires total. Remove the two
    blue jumpers <--> that ship from the factory, then wire it up. HPON
    is not used. AUD_VCC is not used. That leaves seven wires. If you see
    mention of jumpers in the user manual, and "ret_r" or the like,
    then that tells you the motherboard is likely a pure, old style,
    AC'97 setup.

    AUD_MIC X X AUD_GND
    AUD_MIC_BIAS X X AUD_VCC (+5V filtered)
    AUD_FPOUT_R X<-->X AUD_RET_R
    HP_ON X
    AUD_FPOUT_L X<-->X AUD_RET_L

    The OPs case is HDAudio. You could use a real HDAudio wire harness,
    complete with isolated side contact switches, and wire all pins. Very few
    computer cases support this. And even a computer case with "HDaudio"
    stamped on the connector, may not in fact have anything wired to
    SENSE/PRESENCE and so on. A real HDAudio would require nine wires,
    but you're not likely to see that in a real computer case. HdAudio
    motherboards do not have any blue jumpers factory installed, and
    no jumpers are ever required.

    PORT1L (MIC) GND (AUD_GND)
    PORT1R (MIC_BIAS) PRESENCE#
    PORT2R (HEADPHONE_R) SENSE1_RETURN
    SENSE_SEND
    PORT2L (HEADPHONE_L) SENSE2_RETURN

    Most people will be using the AC'97 variant of HDAudio, which is this.
    Wire up five wires. As I suggested to the OP in my answer. Since
    an HDAudio codec has enough channels to not need a mute function,
    there is no longer a need for return wires. (The Line_out on the
    rear of the computer, has its own audio channels.) And they would
    only conflict with the sense function in any case. Again, no need
    to fit jumpers to this, if removing the front panel wiring later.

    AUD_MIC AUD_GND
    AUD_MIC_BIAS ---
    AUD_FPOUT_R ---
     
    Paul, Sep 28, 2009
    #12
  13. Ollie

    GMAN Guest


    If you do the last wiring diagram you list with 5 wires, the rear speakers
    will not shut off when a headset is inserted in the front jack. If his case
    has the extra return wires why would you suggest he not wire the in the proper
    way?




    If you notice, they kept the same pinouts for HD Audio as AC'97 to avoid
    header issues on cases


    So the pins i specified in my post still stands even if the OP is leaving HD
    Audio on in the bios, and what i stated still stands that he should reinstall
    the drivers after the changes.
     
    GMAN, Sep 28, 2009
    #13
  14. Ollie

    Paul Guest

     
    Paul, Sep 28, 2009
    #14
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