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Athlon 3200+ Temps

Discussion in 'AMD Thunderbird' started by Ian, May 10, 2006.

  1. Ian

    Ian Guest

    An old chestnut I guess.

    My Athlon 3200 just will not idle below 47c and loads up to 53c, no matter
    what I do to my cooling. It now has a 120mm exhaust behind it, another
    120 pulling in at the case front,
    there's even an 80mm intake on the case side-panel and a dual-fan PSU.
    System temp, even in warm weather, ranges from "just" 28 to 33c. I belive
    my Gigabyte board reads die temp, so that's something.

    On the one time my CPU reached 56c (doing BOINC) the system went down. On
    this basis, I'd be happy with a 42-49 range, even 50, but I don't like
    52/53 or so, there's not enough headroom there for my tastes before the
    point I at hwich I know it can wobble over.

    I should add I run at only stock bus speeds.

    Currently I'm running with the stock cooler again as I got no improvements
    (actually a 2-3 degree worsening) when I tried a couple of large coolers
    with 80mm fans, e.g. TT Volcano, Akasa (not sure which). I use some
    Thermaltake grease I grabbed in PC World, which I gather is one of the
    Arctic Silvers. The Thermaltake cooler even has a 5,000 RPM fan, which
    simply deafens me but makes no odds. I remounted my stock cooler - if
    it's going to be hot either way I may as well have it melt in peace. :p

    I might be cocking up the paste application I suppose. And I don't lap my
    heatsinks or anything like that. I have cleaned with isopropyl where
    needed. And obviously, the original stuck on layer is all gone, in case
    anyone was going to ask....

    Is it possible that, without special preparations, an Athlon of this type
    is never going to cool below these levels? My opinion is that if I can't
    get below 47c with any extra cooling applied, then there must be a
    bottleneck in the cooling, a limit in the interface with the heatsink,
    whatever, which makes my extra fans irrelevant to the processor. It just
    can't cool below this point, no matter what??

    Air flow seems good. Putting my hand in, I can feel a lot of movement and
    no warm spots. The side fan seems to have removed a hot-spot that I had
    noticed near my Radeon. It is only a
    "normal" case, quite boring, not a cooling paradise, but chosen to at
    least have decent flow for 120mm fans (large holes) etc. It's tall, with
    so much clearance around everything, including the CPU. I even use some
    lovely round IDE/floppy cables and I've tried to pull all of them out of
    the flow... I'm a good boy really!

    Some might say that a peak just over 50c is not alarming for someone not
    going to extra lengths with the heatsink application. Some might say I'm
    screwing up the grease, too much, too little. I've tried applying it a
    dozen times, to the point that I am now holding off experiments for fear
    of damaging the socket or die with my heavy hands.

    Just want to sound out opinions.

    Should I just forget looking at the system mmonitor (Easytune) and get on
    with running the PC? It always possible that if it crashes after 2 hours
    gaming that something else failed, after all...

    What say you?

    Best, Ian.

    3200 on Gigabyte 7VT-600RZ
    512mb PC400


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    Ian, May 10, 2006
    #1
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  2. Ian

    Mercury Guest

    I keep reading about people who have their CPUs running under 40C under
    load, and if you take their word, with air cooling.

    I have no fucking clue how they do it.

    I think I have an "adequate" set of fans in my case, and case temp hovers
    around 40C. My 2500+, overclocked to 3200+ and undervolted to 1.5V, runs
    about 46-48C idle depending on room temp. Under load it gets at high as 55C.

    Under stock voltage it can even go over 60C.

    I did everything I could to bring it down, I applied different amound of AS
    in various ways, but the temp never varied by more than a couple of degrees.
    Seems I'm even more "incompetent" than you, but I'll be damned if I didn't
    do my best.

    Finally I said, "Screw it, the thing's rated for 85C, what am I trying to
    accomplish anyway?" and left it at that.

    I even tried overvolting it to 1.85V, and actually managed to hit 70C at
    full load once (by that time the room got so hot I was sweating just being
    there). It never crashed, and not a single error in Prime95.

    That's why I'm a bit suspicious of it crashing at a mere 56C. I would look
    elsewhere for the culprit.

    An old chestnut I guess.

    My Athlon 3200 just will not idle below 47c and loads up to 53c, no matter
    what I do to my cooling. It now has a 120mm exhaust behind it, another
    120 pulling in at the case front,
    there's even an 80mm intake on the case side-panel and a dual-fan PSU.
    System temp, even in warm weather, ranges from "just" 28 to 33c. I belive
    my Gigabyte board reads die temp, so that's something.

    On the one time my CPU reached 56c (doing BOINC) the system went down. On
    this basis, I'd be happy with a 42-49 range, even 50, but I don't like
    52/53 or so, there's not enough headroom there for my tastes before the
    point I at hwich I know it can wobble over.
     
    Mercury, May 10, 2006
    #2
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  3. Ian

    Wes Newell Guest

    It's all relative. To determine if you have good cooling, the case temp
    shouldn't be more than about 5C above room temp. The cpu temp shouldn't be
    more than 25C above case temp under load. A good cooler will keep that
    within 15C. The stock AMD K7 cooler is far from what I'd call good. A good
    cooler in the cheap range would be a TR2-M3. Cost about $8. Better than
    that would be a Thermalright ALX-800. The ALX-800 cost about $25 and is
    close to the best you can buy at any price if you can still find one. But
    I'd use the TR2-M3 on any K7 cpu even overclocked to 2400MHz or above. In
    fact, I have. Thermal compound is important only in the fact that you
    need some kind. I'm currently using 30 year old wheel bearing grease, and
    have been since Sept. 2005. Did it just to prove a point. Now that's all I
    use.
     
    Wes Newell, May 10, 2006
    #3
  4. Ian

    Ian Guest

    If I'm guilty of anything with the grease, it might be too little, too
    thin (hard to do I know!). So, I think my case temp is ok relative to the
    room and the CPU is an average 18c hotter than this under load. So it
    isn't bad? I'm quite good at most things but never really cracked the
    temps. I get thoughtful when I read of folks with 32c CPU temps, but I
    only really care because I don't think it's stable over 56. I will look
    at the coolers you mention Wesley (I'm in the UK). Someone naming favoured
    coolers from experience is what I was after.

    My CPU does quickly drop to the idle temp, but this seems to be it's floor
    at present, regardless of extra air and voodoo chanting.

    Cheers.


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    Ian, May 10, 2006
    #4
  5. Ian

    Ian Guest

    I'm not an Overclocker but I am impressed that you can both overclock and
    undervolt. I'm reaching the conclusion that it doesn't really matter as
    long as it runs. If it crashes when I've been caning it for hours, I
    don't really know if it is my Radeo, at the end of the day. I have no
    measurements of the die temp of the GPU, after all. And the current HSF on
    that was also fitted by me! ;-)
    I've tried it as a pea-sized blob being squashed down when the CPU is
    fitted, as a thin layer spread by me with a plastic edge, applied to the
    HSF instead, sworn at, prayed over, even applied with my finger
    (fingerprint/grease is a no-no!!) and I get bugger all change. It might as
    well be toothpaste - some say that's so, actualy, if only toothpaste
    didn't dry! I think it may prove that Arctic Silver and similar are over
    hyped, that the properties of filling gaps and not insulating too much may
    apply to simpler products. I was just reading Wes's comments (and I've
    heard him say this before) about wheel bearing grease.

    I'm being unfair. If you had a HSF that could really shift so much heat
    that the CPU could go down to 15c over case temp then I suppose you might
    see a change from better grease. Or not.
    It is rated to die forever (the usual kind of dying I suppose) at 85c.
    Yeah? I read an Australian review of the 3200+ in which the author stated
    that it made his case hot to the touch. What?! I have never experienced
    anything like that. I am sitting next to some pretty cold feeling metal,
    with cool breezes coming out of the vent holes. I know I'm unhappy at 50
    or so degrees, but even so, WTF would one be doing to make this into a
    heater?!


    It never crashed, and not a single error in Prime95.

    I must try Prime 95 actually.
    Yeah - as I said above it might even be the Radeon. Mine can't provide a
    temp for monitoring. Gotta say, not so long ago, many motherboards were
    also without telemetry and you just stuck the HSF on and let it run!
    Sometimes I think I worry too much with this information just because it
    is there.

    Cheers.


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    Ian, May 10, 2006
    #5
  6. Ian

    Mercury Guest

    That makes two of us. :) I guess I just got lucky and got a gem of a
    processor (probably wasted on me, though). It definitely keeps the room
    cooler.
    My BIOS gives the option of shutting down the computer when the CPU exceeds
    a certain temperature. I have it set at the lowest possible temp, that being
    75C. I would expect it to freeze or display some kind of symptoms before
    actually crapping out on me.
    All the components probably put out between 200-300W (don't quote me, it's
    just a guess). Imagine three 100W light bulbs in a metal case. I think it's
    understandable for it to get a bit toasty. Probably air circulation in the
    room has a big effect, too.
     
    Mercury, May 11, 2006
    #6
  7. Ian

    Ian Guest

    Well like you said, if it runs it runs. I think you said that!
    Yeah, I guess. I've got two HDDs and all the rest, but there just isn't
    radiant heat. I once had a cheapo 400w PSU that really pushed hot air out
    the back, which clearly wasn't exhaust heat it was it's OWN heat. My
    current decent quality 450 with two fans puts out only luke warm air.
    Inside the case feels cool and breezy if I slide my hand in afetr removing
    the top, for example. I guess I'm just lucky as this isn't one of those
    clever cooling cases or anything. Wa-hey!!! ;-))

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    Ian, May 11, 2006
    #7
  8. Ian

    Demnos Guest

    I have peletier chips running with Opertron 280 dual cpu. native no
    peliteirs I get 48*C with Pel's on I get 21-23*C make sure you gota a large
    power sipply. I'm using a thermaltake 850 of which 175W is for my cooloing
    chips. Pure cooling with the adding of 2 120mm fans (250cfm each) I'm a bit
    loud. That's ok. But what the system can do, OUCH!! Also I have cold floor
    uptake vents on the floor in my office I have a snorkel vent that's charged
    by a 110V 6" fan my exaust Tenp is 29.5*C for the entire box. Wile room temp
    is 78*F



    An old chestnut I guess.

    My Athlon 3200 just will not idle below 47c and loads up to 53c, no matter
    what I do to my cooling. It now has a 120mm exhaust behind it, another
    120 pulling in at the case front,
    there's even an 80mm intake on the case side-panel and a dual-fan PSU.
    System temp, even in warm weather, ranges from "just" 28 to 33c. I belive
    my Gigabyte board reads die temp, so that's something.

    On the one time my CPU reached 56c (doing BOINC) the system went down. On
    this basis, I'd be happy with a 42-49 range, even 50, but I don't like
    52/53 or so, there's not enough headroom there for my tastes before the
    point I at hwich I know it can wobble over.

    I should add I run at only stock bus speeds.

    Currently I'm running with the stock cooler again as I got no improvements
    (actually a 2-3 degree worsening) when I tried a couple of large coolers
    with 80mm fans, e.g. TT Volcano, Akasa (not sure which). I use some
    Thermaltake grease I grabbed in PC World, which I gather is one of the
    Arctic Silvers. The Thermaltake cooler even has a 5,000 RPM fan, which
    simply deafens me but makes no odds. I remounted my stock cooler - if
    it's going to be hot either way I may as well have it melt in peace. :p

    I might be cocking up the paste application I suppose. And I don't lap my
    heatsinks or anything like that. I have cleaned with isopropyl where
    needed. And obviously, the original stuck on layer is all gone, in case
    anyone was going to ask....

    Is it possible that, without special preparations, an Athlon of this type
    is never going to cool below these levels? My opinion is that if I can't
    get below 47c with any extra cooling applied, then there must be a
    bottleneck in the cooling, a limit in the interface with the heatsink,
    whatever, which makes my extra fans irrelevant to the processor. It just
    can't cool below this point, no matter what??

    Air flow seems good. Putting my hand in, I can feel a lot of movement and
    no warm spots. The side fan seems to have removed a hot-spot that I had
    noticed near my Radeon. It is only a
    "normal" case, quite boring, not a cooling paradise, but chosen to at
    least have decent flow for 120mm fans (large holes) etc. It's tall, with
    so much clearance around everything, including the CPU. I even use some
    lovely round IDE/floppy cables and I've tried to pull all of them out of
    the flow... I'm a good boy really!

    Some might say that a peak just over 50c is not alarming for someone not
    going to extra lengths with the heatsink application. Some might say I'm
    screwing up the grease, too much, too little. I've tried applying it a
    dozen times, to the point that I am now holding off experiments for fear
    of damaging the socket or die with my heavy hands.

    Just want to sound out opinions.

    Should I just forget looking at the system mmonitor (Easytune) and get on
    with running the PC? It always possible that if it crashes after 2 hours
    gaming that something else failed, after all...

    What say you?

    Best, Ian.

    3200 on Gigabyte 7VT-600RZ
    512mb PC400


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    Demnos, Jul 6, 2006
    #8
  9. Ian

    Ian O Guest

    Demnos,

    I haven't returned to this thread for a while since, despite changing to
    a more approved cooler, I have hit a minimum temp, which I can't get
    below no matter what air I move and how.

    System is seemingly stable in the highest ambient temps it has ever
    encountered here in the UK, so I have relaxed my obsession and I just
    let it run. Lately I have been thrashing it with video editing and it
    has not fallen over. If I play games for extremely prolonged periods it
    might, once in a while, crap out on me, however there is a growing
    suspicion this is the bloody driver for my sound card! Long story that.

    Anyway, your rig and your temps are very impressive. I have only a 450w
    supply, which was a good branded model with good fans, but not in the
    same class! I know there is more I could do, but as I said, regarding
    air cooling, I now feel that three more fans (for which there is no
    room) would make no difference, it needs something else and I'm not
    going there at this time. Probably mostly it needs a better case. I
    have the illusion of size and ventilation, but in reality I am not so sure.

    What this case does have is a rather restrictive pattern of holes for
    the poor fans to strain through. One day I might remove everything and
    get out a Dremel to widen these, or cut the apertures right out and put
    guards over instead. I fancy that! This would really change the
    airflow. Gotat be bothered to strip the system out of the case, but I'm
    getting the urge, LOL.

    Thanks 4 input. Enjoy your cool system!
    <snip my original post as it is now at the bottom, LOL>
     
    Ian O, Jul 6, 2006
    #9
  10. Ian

    chuck Guest

    You don't mention which operating system you use. If it's Windows XP. Make
    sure "Enable processor HLT" or similar is enabled in your BIOS. This will
    cool the processor during idle times and anything other than full load. If
    your BIOS doesn't have this feature there's a neat little program called
    CPUIdle. That enables the same featuure in software. Simply search for it in
    any search engine. As for Thermaltake grease being the same as Artic Silver.
    That is definitely wrong. While it does the same job, it doesn't do it
    anywhere near as well. If you can use Artic Silver 5. And when applying any
    thermal compound use the thinnest layer possible. Too much can actually act
    as an insulator and keep the heatsink from working.
     
    chuck, Jul 7, 2006
    #10
  11. Ian

    Wes Newell Guest

    How many times am i going to have to see this crap about AS. It's been
    proven to be BS many times over. AS5 will work no more than 1-2C better
    than any other decent compound. And probably no better than my $.001 a pop
    wheel bearing grease. Speaking of whichg i haven't updated in months. Come
    Sept. 1 it will be 1 year since proving this crap to people. that's when I
    removed my old "real" HS compound and used some 30 year old wheel bearing
    grease I found in the garage. A couple of days after installing it temps
    where actually 1C lower than prior. So how's it doing now, over 10 month
    later. You be the judge. Ambient temp is 25C.

    [[email protected] ~]$ sensors
    it87-isa-0290
    Adapter: ISA adapter
    VCore 1: +1.28 V (min = +1.25 V, max = +1.74 V)
    +3.3V: +3.22 V (min = +3.14 V, max = +3.47 V)
    +5V: +4.92 V (min = +4.76 V, max = +5.24 V)
    +12V: +11.65 V (min = +11.39 V, max = +12.61 V)
    -12V: -11.29 V (min = -10.83 V, max = -13.19 V)
    -5V: -5.28 V (min = -4.24 V, max = -5.76 V)
    Stdby: +5.00 V (min = +4.76 V, max = +5.24 V)
    VBat: +3.10 V
    fan1: 2766 RPM (min = 0 RPM, div = 8)
    fan2: 2376 RPM (min = 0 RPM, div = 8)
    CPU Temp: +30°C (low = +15°C, high = +60°C) sensor = diode
    M/B Temp: +32°C (low = +15°C, high = +40°C) sensor = thermistor

    [[email protected] ~]$
     
    Wes Newell, Jul 7, 2006
    #11
  12. Ian

    Lassie Guest

    Your motherboard is even hotter than the CPU? Not likely. You really
    messed something up.
     
    Lassie, Jul 8, 2006
    #12
  13. Ian

    Ian O Guest

    I really think you will find that Wes is a bona fide expert, rest
    assured of that. He doesn't have to argue and spends his time helping a
    lot of people. I might not use axle grease either, but that's not the
    point. The *average* temp of the MB can indeed be higher than CPU. Not
    for me, maybe not for you, maybe not often, but if the CPU cooling and
    airflow really works, why the hell not? The HIGH temps are 20 degrees
    apart and the table appears perfectly logical to me.

    best, Ian.
     
    Ian O, Jul 8, 2006
    #13
  14. Ian

    Wes Newell Guest

    When people are ignorant they should just keep their fingers idle so as
    not to prove it to the world. The above temps are correct. the MB sensor
    is at the back in between the bottom 2 pci slots. I've got 4HDTV tuner
    cards in the bottom 4 slots and an ide raid card in the top slot next to
    the video card filling up every slot on the MB. In case you don't know it,
    which I'm sure is true, tuner cards produce more heat than any other PCI
    card you'll ever plug in to a PCI slot. Now go see if you messed your
    pants.
     
    Wes Newell, Jul 8, 2006
    #14
  15. Ian

    Lassie Guest

    You fool, I'm not wearing any pants :^)
     
    Lassie, Jul 8, 2006
    #15
  16. Ian

    Ian O Guest

    Don't waste your breath! ;-)

    What I'm suffering from mostly at the moment is ambient temperature,
    which has been in the 30s with little moving air. I think we sometimes
    overlook that you need to try to make the PCs surroundings suitable,
    rather than solely concentrating on the innards. I just get
    disappointed when it's actually cold (to the hand) inside the case and
    the CPU hits 54. I do have a tuner etc, lots of PCI. I haev no idea
    where the sensor is though on my mobo. Anyway, a the moment I don't
    think my system has heat related issues. Cheers!
     
    Ian O, Jul 10, 2006
    #16
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