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ATI Rant and Some Questions (HD 2900XT)

Discussion in 'ATI' started by hbscott, Dec 29, 2007.

  1. hbscott

    hbscott Guest

    First off, I'm no expert with graphic cards. I may be ignorant, but
    I'm willing to learn. Please correct me where I am wrong.

    I ordered an HD 2900XT on 9/28/07. The card had been out for a while
    and at that time I was not hearing any true negatives so I thought
    it would be a long term solution for 3D gaming. I looked forward to
    adding a second card in Crossfire at a later date when prices dropped.
    My major concern when I went to look for a second card is I am reading
    reviews stating, "AMD confirmed they used shaders and not ROPs
    (hardware) to resolve anti-aliasing on the HD 2900XT. This design flaw
    is causing the poor performances I've seen when enabling AA in games.
    Using shader AA instead of ROP AA was a poor design decision that no
    driver updates or patches will ever correct. This piece of hardware is
    flawed from the start and doomed to a quick death."

    This got me to researching some more and I found that the upcoming
    DirectX 10.1 will begin to implement more Shader AA "features". I
    googled "2900XT and DirectX 10.1" and couldn't find anything telling
    me that 10.1 will help make the 2900XT a long term solution for 3D
    gaming. Yet when I googled, "ATI and DirectX 10.1" there was no end
    to the articles telling me that the 3xxx series of cards will take
    advantage of 10.1.

    The 3870 is listing for ~ $170 less than a 2900XT and from what I
    understand there is no significant difference in 3D speeds and
    features. Good for the person who gets the 3870 on deal. More power
    to them. As for me, I am pissed. The X800Pro that I replaced lasted
    for a few great years of gaming and I looked forward to having a few
    more years of top of the line ATI graphics to take me through the
    DirectX 10 era. Three months later and I am sitting on a (soon to be)
    dud from what I have read. Quite honestly I am about ready to try out
    the other guys as soon as their 10.1 compliant cards are mainstream.

    END RANT

    Questions: Am I looking at not being able to crank up graphics
    settings in near-future games or am I overreacting?

    Can anyone say for sure if the 2900XT will improve with age as new
    DirectX protocols are made available?

    Why won't ATI Support reply to my questions? Have I stated myself
    clearly? Can I assume that they realize they are going to piss off a
    lot of their high-end customers?

    My home built system: P5K3 Deluxe, C2Q Q6600 2.4, 2gigs DDR3, HD
    2900XT, ITZ 700W, built in early 10/07. This is my second self-built
    system (after three years). So far I am pleased with all of my
    decisions in the long term except for the graphics card. I mostly
    play 1st person shooters (single player and online).

    Thanks for taking the time to read and for any replies.
     
    hbscott, Dec 29, 2007
    #1
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  2. hbscott

    KlausK Guest

    AA is overrated. Once the rez go beyond 1280, the effect of AA on image
    quality is almost zero. Long time ago when games run at 640x480 or 320x240,
    AA did make them look better.

    With your system, you can run games at a high rez. Unless you have vision
    like an eagle's, you won't notice a difference. I'm running COD4 at
    1920x1080 on an HDTV and played with graphic settings. I notice zero
    difference between AA and no-AA.
     
    KlausK, Dec 31, 2007
    #2
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  3. hbscott

    hbscott Guest

    First off, I'm no expert with graphic cards. I may be ignorant, but
    I'm willing to learn. Please correct me where I am wrong.

    I ordered an HD 2900XT on 9/28/07. The card had been out for a while
    and at that time I was not hearing any true negatives so I thought
    it would be a long term solution for 3D gaming. I looked forward to
    adding a second card in Crossfire at a later date when prices dropped.

    My major concern when I went to look for a second card is I am reading
    reviews stating, "AMD confirmed they used shaders and not ROPs
    (hardware) to resolve anti-aliasing on the HD 2900XT. This design flaw
    is causing the poor performances I've seen when enabling AA in games.
    Using shader AA instead of ROP AA was a poor design decision that no
    driver updates or patches will ever correct. This piece of hardware is
    flawed from the start and doomed to a quick death."

    This got me to researching some more and I found that the upcoming
    DirectX 10.1 will begin to implement more Shader AA "features". I
    googled "2900XT and DirectX 10.1" and couldn't find anything telling
    me that 10.1 will help make the 2900XT a long term solution for 3D
    gaming. Yet when I googled, "ATI and DirectX 10.1" there was no end
    to the articles telling me that the 3xxx series of cards will take
    advantage of 10.1.

    The 3870 is listing for ~ $170 less than a 2900XT and from what I
    understand there is no significant difference in 3D speeds and
    features. Good for the person who gets the 3870 on deal. More power
    to them. As for me, I am pissed. The X800Pro that I replaced lasted
    for a few great years of gaming and I looked forward to having a few
    more years of top of the line ATI graphics to take me through the
    DirectX 10 era. Three months later and I am sitting on a (soon to be)
    dud from what I have read. Quite honestly I am about ready to try out
    the other guys as soon as their 10.1 compliant cards are mainstream.

    END RANT

    Questions: Am I looking at not being able to crank up graphics
    settings in near-future games or am I overreacting?

    Can anyone say for sure if the 2900XT will improve with age as new
    DirectX protocols are made available?

    Why won't ATI Support reply to my questions? Have I stated myself
    clearly? Can I assume that they realize they are going to piss off a
    lot of their high-end customers?

    My home built system: P5K3 Deluxe, C2Q Q6600 2.4, 2gigs DDR3, HD
    2900XT, ITZ 700W, built in early 10/07. This is my second self-built
    system (after three years). So far I am pleased with all of my
    decisions in the long term except for the graphics card. I mostly
    play 1st person shooters (single player and online).

    Thanks for taking the time to read and for any replies.
     
    hbscott, Dec 31, 2007
    #3
  4. hbscott

    First of One Guest

    You seem to have DX10.1 capability confused with faster AA. In fact the
    HD38x0 cards are inflicted with the same shader-resolver-only design, and
    suffer a similar performance hit with AA enabled.

    If you want fast AA, get a Geforce 8800GT or GTS (like many have done) - of
    course these cards don't support DX10.1 either.

    Your X800Pro lacked SM 3.0 capability, so it could not, for example, do
    high-dynamic range rendering in games like Oblivion. Despite the image
    quality improvements with HDR, you didn't seem to lament this missing
    feature. It's gonna be a similar deal with DX10.1.
     
    First of One, Dec 31, 2007
    #4
  5. hbscott

    hbscott Guest

    Ahhh...just the kind of info I was looking for.

    Thanks for the reply. My X800Pro served me well for a long time. I
    didn't miss SM 3.0 until I tried to play Bioshock. That was a wake up
    call. When I researched a solution I saw where ATI had not included
    this feature when most other cards shipping at that time were fully
    compliant. Anyway...I was aware that that card wouldn't have run
    Bioshock well anyway. That's when I decided to get out of the AGP
    market and build from the ground up.

    I guess I'm just mad because I found out only three months later that
    my 2900XT was not as "top of the line" as I thought. Feeling screwed
    twice (that quickly) by the same company is not good for getting my
    business again. I didn't look into the reviews closely enough and I
    take some of the blame, but not all. Like I said I'm no expert, but I
    figured their best card at the time would be able to take me further
    down the road than I suspect this one will.

    I will mostly agree with KlausK that AA is overated. But, it is also
    my opinion that a card that cost as much as the 2900XT shouldn't blink
    when you turn on AA, in particular with older games. I haven't found
    this to be the case and feel like I didn't get my money's worth. This
    is all behind me now. I've decided to overclock and experiment with
    this card until Nvidia has a 10.1 card on the market. I hope I can
    hang on to the Christmas money I was going to use on a second card.

    Happy New Year
     
    hbscott, Jan 1, 2008
    #5
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