Big temp rise with new cpu - need advice please

Discussion in 'Asus' started by Randy_O, Mar 12, 2005.

  1. Randy_O

    Randy_O Guest

    I've just built my sister a new P4P800 SE with a new 3E GHz Pent 4 CPU. I
    use the packaged Intel fan and heat exchanger with the gummy heat exchange
    compound. I tested the comp. tonight to see if I could get the Bios, and
    the temperature of the CPU was 78.5 degrees Centigrade or 178 degrees Far.
    My own Computer's CPU is a 2.8 E GHZ Pent 4 on a P4P800 DLX ; I built it
    long time ago, and I took off the Intel heat exchange paste by accident. I
    had to apply some stuff out of a tube that I bought at radio shack. My CPU
    heats to the mild temp of 31 degrees C or 100 degrees F. degrees. Is my
    sisters CPU going to burn up; it sure seems hot compared to mine? If I
    decide to take her fan and heat exchange off, what is the best way to clean
    up the mess before I apply some other heat exchange paste (I've still got
    the old stuff from radio shack)? What is the maximum heat the Pentium 4
    chip supposed to take? Thank goodness I got the Bios on her comp tonight.

    Sincerely -- Randy


    PS------ Don't buy one of those Super Mid Tower Antec Cases of the Solution
    Series unless you want complete frustration with the top area for 5.25
    devices. There are no screw holes for backup. There are two drive rails
    for each device which you screw in to the device ( e.g.. CD ROM ); then, you
    slide the device in the bay until it snaps into place ------ good LUCK!!!!!
    I've always bought Antec cases. Theses are great
    cases except for the Whole Damn area where the 5.25 bays are (knuckle
    busters). The specific case I bought for my sister was SLK3700AMB. Maybe
    they should try the cases out before they sell them. I've got very
    expensive full tower cases from Antec that I bought from them years
    ago-------no problem ---- maybe they had quality assurance then. These
    cases had everything going for them --- too good to be true -- it was -- !
     
    Randy_O, Mar 12, 2005
    #1
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  2. Randy_O

    Mercury Guest

    Go to the arctcsilver web site and check through the instructions there.

    http://www.arcticsilver.com/

    Could you have mounted the heatsink backwards? It happens.
    Could the heat gunk be un even?
    Is the heatsink clipped on correctly?
    How is the temp with the side off the case?
    What is the ambient temp?

    Do not use both heat gunk and a heat pad at the same time.
    Did you remove the protective film from the stock heatsinks head pad?

    78c is hot. Don't run the system like that until the issue is sorted. It is
    not too hot to be of concern, just HOT.

    The recommendation for P4 Prescott cpu'sis not to use the supplied heat pad
    on the heatsink, but to use a quality heat gunk EG AS *and* to have a vent
    in the side of the case that feeds (ducts) fresh cool air straight to the
    CPU cooler fan.
     
    Mercury, Mar 12, 2005
    #2
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  3. Randy_O

    Alex Devlin Guest

    I have the same board and mine shows hotter than it is.

    When I first got it I installed my P4 Prescott 2.8 with the stock fan and
    heatsink. My idle temps were in the 50s and it shot to 73+ under load.
    Occasionally I would get a reading of 90C with nothing running but windows
    and it's services. I installed a Thermalright XP-120 with a 120mm fan and
    now it shows low 40s idle to low 60s load. I tried a different board in the
    same case and with everything else the same and the temps were 30s idle and
    low 50s load. I could get a better case and cool this down some more.

    The Prescott I have has a thermal limit of 67C. After this it starts to
    throttle back and will eventually shut down to save itself. When I had the
    old intel fan and sink with the temp showing in the 70s it didn't slow down
    or shut down.

    Maybe there's a bad batch of P4P800SEs out there that read higher than they
    should. Mine certainly does.

    You can download a program called Throttlewatch
    (http://www.panopsys.com/throttlewatch.php) that will monitor your cpu and
    let you know if it's throttling back due to heat.

    Do as the other poster recommended and read the instructions at the arctic
    silver web site and apply new paste. Make sure it's as thin as possible to
    maximize the heat transfer. The best technique I read about and tried is to
    use a plastic bag to apply the paste. Take a sandwich zip bag and turn it
    inside out so you're using a side that hasn't been touched. Place a small
    (about half a grain of rice size) amount of paste in the middle of the cpu
    and then spread it with your finger in the bag. It will pull the paste away
    from the cpu until you have a coating on the bag and then it will spread
    it. Be careful as you will get to a point where you'll start to pull it off
    the cpu again.

    Have fun and post your findings.
     
    Alex Devlin, Mar 12, 2005
    #3
  4. Randy_O

    Randy_O Guest

    Thanks guys for the advice. I really think the P4P800 SE is reading wrong
    (I hope). I took the board out and cleaned up the cpu and heat exchanger;
    then, I put on the same heat exchange paste I used on my own P4P800 dlx
    board (that was a nice board) where I have a cpu temp of 38 degrees C.
    After I put the MB back in the case and ran things awhile the temp was
    cooler by only 8.5 degrees C. I went from 78.5 to 70 degrees C. I have
    two 120 mm fans in the case with a light load. I'm using the same Intel Fan
    and heat exchange which comes with all commercial retail Prescott 3.0E GHz
    CPUs. What do you all think?

    Sincerely -- Randy O.
    ==================================================
     
    Randy_O, Mar 13, 2005
    #4
  5. Randy_O

    - Guest

    really think the P4P800 SE is reading wrong ... I'm using the same Intel
    I guess a lot depends on your case, fans and how many obstructions there are
    in the way of the airflow (cables, cards, etc). FWIW, I run the same board
    and processor and at 55 to 58 degrees under heavy processing. I checked my
    filter on the front of my Antec case this last week and it was quite furry.
    Temps had crept up 61 degrees. Temps dropped 5 degrees after cleaning the
    filters and blowing the heat sink fins free of fur ;)

    Doug
     
    -, Mar 14, 2005
    #5
  6. Randy_O

    Alex Devlin Guest

    You don't get rid of the fur dude!! That's where the little Intel* devs
    live and work. If you kill them we'll never get a cool 4Ghz+ cpu from
    them.

    *If you have an AMD please disregard and kill the b*stards. :p
     
    Alex Devlin, Mar 14, 2005
    #6
  7. Randy_O

    Alex Devlin Guest

    Have you tried the 'Throttlewatch' program? That would let you know if
    it's throttling back in any way due to heat. Also if you have access to
    another cpu (Northwood would read lower temps due to the power usage) you
    can swap them and read the difference. Or another board to swap and get a
    reading off?

    A better sink and fan will reduce the temps. The stock one really sucks
    and I can't believe that Intel still supply it with a Prescott. The heat
    problems of this cpu alone should warrant a better sink and fan.

    What I've learned with my cpu and board is the temp sensor is reading
    high. Everything should say that the cpu will throttle back at the temps
    it reached. Trying a different board just confirmed my suspicions.
     
    Alex Devlin, Mar 14, 2005
    #7
  8. Randy_O

    Randy_O Guest

    Thank you Alex -------

    I tried ThrottleWatch on my sisters P4P800 SE with PaintShop Pro, and the
    3.O E GHz CPU is certainly overheating and throttling. It jumped up to 70
    from a low of 11 in the throttle range several times I tested. At idle it
    did not throttle. I tried ThrottleWatch on my own computer which has a 2.8
    GHz E Prescott on a P4P800 DLX MB; I messed around with PhotoShop and never
    saw any throttling with my CPU. I will have to get a new fan heat exchange
    on my sister's setup. This will be a problem because I don't know where to
    start -- to get the right one to fit. Her damn computer has just about
    blown my mind. I've built 3 other systems, but this one has been one
    problem after another. Any ideas of a good fan heat exchange that is
    available easily ( that for sure will fit ) --- something that Newegg or
    MWAVE might handle? Those are two places I do order online. How about
    CompUSA? I don't want the thing too huge because of the configuration of
    her case. If her DVD-CD writer reader dies, and I need to put another in I
    would have to take the MB out to put another in; I have to remove the PS to
    put the DVD in, and the PS must move out and over the CPU temporarily.
    Thanks again Alex!!!!! Sure is fun ---huh ;o)))

    Sincerely --- Randy O in WI
    =========================================================================
     
    Randy_O, Mar 15, 2005
    #8
  9. Randy_O

    Alex Devlin Guest

    I would recommend that you spend a few extra bucks and get a larger case
    first. You will probably need a decent size heatsink to cool this cpu
    down. Size can be tall or wide depending on what your preference is. I
    think that the case your describing will cost you more in the long run as
    you try to work around it to get it cool.

    I use a Thermalright XP-120 (http://tinyurl.com/3s8kw). It can only fit
    on the P4P800SE in one direction, with the pipes facing the memory slots.
    It rests against my power supply so I should get a bigger case at some
    point to give it more room. Some people recommend the Zalman
    (http://tinyurl.com/6n9vw). I was tempted to go for that but I read
    reviews that recommended the XP-120 above the zalman and needed the
    maximum cooling.

    Get a case with an air duct and lots of fans. Newegg has lots to choose
    from. If you got the original case from them and it's un modified then I
    would email them and explain the situation and they 'MAY' allow you to
    exchange it.
     
    Alex Devlin, Mar 15, 2005
    #9
  10. I agree with the need for a new case. If the old one is as cramped as
    it seems to be it can make a big difference in CPU temperature. My
    latest update had similar problems to the OP's until I replaced the
    case. The CPU was directly under the PS and the temperature was in the
    60s at idle. With a new case and a couple of inches of clearance my
    temperatures dropped into the low 40's at idle (with a 3.4 Prescott).'
    I didn't need to replace the heatsink fan to get this kind of a drop,
    just improve the heat flow.
     
    Michael W. Ryder, Mar 15, 2005
    #10
  11. Randy_O

    Randy_O Guest

    What specific 120 mm fan did you use on the Thermalright XP-120 (does it
    matter), and how did you attach the fan to the heat sink? Did you use
    contact cement? I see I need a 3 pin female attachment. I see the heat
    exchange comes with two wire attachment dodads --- will these work on MB
    post holes meant for the Intel heatsink fan setup or is there lots of
    dinking around. Once the wires are attached to hold the heat exchange, how
    does a fan get attached? How did you do it Alex? I have room I believe.

    My case is ---- I mentioned it in one post is the """"Don't buy one of
    those Super Mid Tower Antec Cases of the Solution Series unless you want
    complete frustration with the top area for 5.25 devices. There are no screw
    holes for backup. There are two drive rails for each device which you screw
    in to the device ( e.g.. CD ROM ); then, you slide the device in the bay
    until it snaps into place ------ good LUCK!!!!! I've always bought Antec
    cases. Theses are great
    cases except for the Whole Damn area where the 5.25 bays are (knuckle
    busters). The specific case I bought for my sister was SLK3700AMB. Maybe
    they should try the cases out before they sell them. I've got very
    expensive full tower cases from Antec that I bought from them years
    ago-------no problem ---- maybe they had great quality assurance then. "
    Go to Antec and U can see the schematic of the case; it looks really great.

    The CPU is sort of close to the PS; so, Michael Ryder is correct in his
    ideas about cooling I believe.
    Thanks Alex and Michael and anyone else. Alex I will try to keep you posted
    on my improvements -- I hope.

    Sincerely----Randy O
    ===================================================================
     
    Randy_O, Mar 15, 2005
    #11
  12. Randy_O

    Alex Devlin Guest

    I used this fan on mine http://tinyurl.com/33q6d
    I had to modify it though as the corners had plastic in them. You'll see
    why soon.

    The wire dodads you mentioned are what attaches the fan to the heatsink.
    The heatsink has clips built into the underneath of it and it clips into
    the standard P4 heatsink clips on your motherboard. You can install it
    while the board is in the case but the clips are very strong and you need
    to push them down to clip onto the plastic bracket on the motherboard.
    They are like strong spring clips so you need to be able to get to them
    to make sure they're clipped in well. I have my fan plugged into a 4pin
    plug in the pc case. The same type that you connect to drives. So my fan
    runs full speed all the time. Forget the 3pin motherboard connector and
    ignore the BIOS error when you boot the first time telling you the cpu
    fan isn't working. It can only read it through the 3pin which you may not
    be using if you do the same as me.

    Go to www.thermalright.com and click on "Installation/XP-120(P4)" on the
    menu on the left. You can see the clips underneath the heatsink and the
    wire dodads that hold the fan. These are weak and flimsy but do hold the
    fan securely so don't panic when you see them. This is also why I had to
    modify my fan. The wires clip onto the fan so the sides and corners need
    to be open so the wire can get into it. If you get a solid fan there is
    no where for the clips to go to hold it.

    If you want to go ahead with this heatsink in that case then good luck to
    you! But I would recommend a better case. You're going to be spending $70
    on the heatsink and whatever on the fan, so why not a new case too?
     
    Alex Devlin, Mar 15, 2005
    #12
  13. Randy_O

    mthien Guest

    I recently installed a P3.2E CPU into a P4C800 deluxe board and also
    noticed that the temperature jumped to 70 degrees. I also found that
    the system would simply switch off at this point. I attribute this to
    the board not supporting the Prescott processor fully. Please be sure
    to upgrade the bios to the most recent version.
     
    mthien, Mar 15, 2005
    #13
  14. Randy_O

    Randy_O Guest

    Well Alex , I ordered what you suggested, and I even purchased Artic Silver
    heatsink paste. If you take the "eatcrow and the spam" out of my email you
    can email me. I sure wish you could make a quick drawing /sketch and scan
    it showing your modification of the fan. You could send me a jpg or two
    (make them less than 300 --more like 75 pixels per inch). I was wondering
    about your fan; you might want to change it because it is doing a steady
    job. The fan ordered is a sleeve bearing fan (you had the link for); After
    delivery, I may go out and buy a similar ball bearing fan at CompUSA because
    ball bearing fans are better. I also installed a 120 mm ball bearing fan in
    the front of the case which I might need to use; it had a 3 wire plug, but I
    could get an adapter. I sure would like to see what I need to do next when
    this stuff comes instead of guessing at how to adapt the fan. I sure would
    appreciate it because I've got a major write up I must do pertaining to
    Vietnam; it is very important for me getting my proper benefits. This
    building a computer for my younger sister turned into a nightmare scenario.
    That case I bought for my sister cost $84 ($108 with S&H); there is no way I
    can blow that kind of money. I can't return it because it has been scarred
    and scratched inside with all the stuff I did. Usually Antec cases are
    great. I've got a deluxe case they don't make any more, but mine would have
    been nicer if they would have thought of 120 mm fans in those days ( I've
    got lots of 80 mm fans --- its a noisy computer, but really cool).

    My Best Regards --- Randy O in WI
    =====================================================================
     
    Randy_O, Mar 16, 2005
    #14
  15. Randy_O

    Alex Devlin Guest

    Pictures emailed.
     
    Alex Devlin, Mar 16, 2005
    #15
  16. Randy_O

    Alex Devlin Guest

    Argh, sent it before I had finished!

    Emailed: - 3 pictures showing the XP-120 and the fan mods.

    Ignore the dust please :)

    Hope these help.

    I removed the plastic from the corners using a saw blade. You could use a
    dremel or even a chisel/screwdriver and hammer if you're carefull.

    Be sure to set the fan to blow down onto the XP-120.

    Getting the clips on the XP-120 to clip into the bracket on the
    motherboard is difficult. It may be easier to remove the motherboard and
    seat the heatsink.

    Put a THIN coating of AS5 on the cpu. Clean it well first. Both the cpu
    and XP-120 base.
     
    Alex Devlin, Mar 16, 2005
    #16
  17. Randy_O

    Randy_O Guest

    Thanks Alex. Note the ball bearing model of the same size and manufactured
    fan you linked to.
    http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-150-052&depa=0
    The ball bearing model has more air flow vs. the sleeve model; the ball
    bearing model dBA is about 5 higher for noise. I ordered 4 tonight for
    future building. Your a good guy ---helping out a desperate frustrated guy
    doing a good deed for sister who needs a decent comp.

    Sincerely ---A WI friend -----------------Randy O
    =====================================================================
     
    Randy_O, Mar 17, 2005
    #17
  18. Randy_O

    Randy_O Guest

    Excellent photographs showing just what I wanted to see!!! Great notes on
    the photos. You did a h-ll of a job ---Alex----well done! Thanks again
    -----Randy
    =====================================================================
     
    Randy_O, Mar 17, 2005
    #18
  19. Randy_O

    Alex Devlin Guest

    Anytime Randy. That's what this group is for.
    Thanks for the link to the better fan. I'll put it in my wishlist until the
    wife loosens the purse strings a little ;)
     
    Alex Devlin, Mar 17, 2005
    #19
  20. Randy_O

    Randy_O Guest

    I attached the XP-120; also, I attached a 3 pin extension on the cpu fan
    plug. I was impatient; my order for the ball bearing replacement fans for
    the sleeve bearing fan had not come yet. I took the ball bearing 3pin 120
    mm Evercool fan which I had attached to the front of the case (not as good
    CFM as those ordered) and put that on the heat sink. I didn't need to
    modify the plastic holes; the spring metal clips from the heat sink snapped
    over the fan screw holes easily. I twisted a couple plastic coated wires at
    two of the screw holes to make the metal spring clip really tight on the
    fan. I attached the cpu fan plug, Screwing the one screw in the upper left
    side of the MB into the standoff was very difficult, and it came out sort of
    crooked. I used the sleeve fan for the front of the case.

    The Temp. decreased from initially 78.5 degrees C with Intel gunk and
    heaksink/fan to 70 degrees C with radio shack heatsink paste and Intel
    heatsink/fan -----to 36.5 degrees C (nearly 10 degrees F) with the
    thermalright XP-120 heat exchanger with a 120 mm fan (could have put a
    faster fan with better CFM on). No throttling detected! I hope you get to
    read this Alex. Thankssssssssssss!!!!!!!

    My sister comp has only one hard drive ( a 200 GB WD) primary ATA. I'm
    wondering what kind of serial hard drive setup did you do? I've never setup
    any up. I've spent enough on my sisters computer for now. She owes enough
    ( every month she'll pay some). I also bought her software to get her off
    on the right start. I thought Corel WordPerfect Office 12 was a good value
    for her; it would go along with her new PaintShop Pro 9. Then, I picked her
    up PC-cillin Internet Security by Trend Micro. I added some good freeware I
    had. I have a DVD-CD write/reader drive as her secondary master. She will
    need an extra hard drive in the future. I'll keep my eyes open for good
    rebates. I think she really only needs one more really large hard drive
    that is serial ------- what speed can the P4P800 SE take as far as SATA hard
    drives? How do you set up just one on this MB?

    Best Regards to a very helpful guy ---------------------Randy O in WI
    ==================================================================
     
    Randy_O, Mar 21, 2005
    #20
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