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Can I make a meaningfull performance uprgrade with the old MSI 6119 motherboard with AGP video card

Discussion in 'ATI' started by Richard, Mar 10, 2009.

  1. Richard

    Richard Guest


    That's my motherboard: MSI 6119


    Fitted with ATI 8Mb XPERT 98 2x Video Accelerator Card.


    Search results for AGP 2x search string.

    Where "AGP 2x" apppears in the results, I presume I can use any video card
    associated with that search string? Is that correct?

    I'm hoping that I can buy a pre-owned AGP video card that will work with my
    motherboard, and significantly improve graphics performance. Just don't know
    if this is possible with such an old motherboard.

    My PC is Pentium II running at 350Mhz, with 256MB RAM.

    I'm not a gamer. I's like to use CAD programs though.

    Know little about these matters.

    Thanks for your help. Rich.
    Richard, Mar 10, 2009
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  2. Richard

    Richard Guest

    Please don't pay too much attention to the CAD comment.

    Any worthwhile improvement will be usewful. At the moment I do have some
    problems with certain downloads fromYouTube. Picture often just a freeze and
    some steaky lines. Imagine it's my video card.

    Will eventually, not too long from now will get new motherboard. But if I
    can get a cheap pre-owned video card that will improve things for now, I'll
    go for that.
    Richard, Mar 10, 2009
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  3. Richard

    Richard Guest


    I think that's the better page.

    I take it that the MSI 6119 has AGP 2x, and that where "2x" apppears I can
    more or less use the asspociated card.

    But, I cannot see my card - the ATI 8MB Xpert98 AGP 2x. That originally fed
    into a PCI 3D Accelerator Card (Voodoo 2).

    Why cannot I see the Xpert 98 video card in that list? Rich
    Richard, Mar 10, 2009
  4. Richard

    Richard Guest

    Ahh, the ATI 8MB Xpert98 uses the Rage Pro Turbo Chipset.

    So, that's the second one from the top here:


    Going to bed, it's late, I'll try to sort it out tomorrow.
    Richard, Mar 10, 2009
  5. Richard

    Augustus Guest

    A PII 350 and an ATI 8Mb card and you want better performance by going to a
    AGP2X card? Surely this is not a serious post.
    Augustus, Mar 10, 2009
  6. Richard

    Richard Guest

    Remember I'm learing here.

    "AGP1X, AGP2X, AGP4X, and AGP8X refer to the speed of data transfers on the
    AGP Interface while AGP1.0, AGP2.0, and AGP3.0 refer to specific releases of
    the AGP."

    It seems I've got an AGP1X specification card, that's the ATI Xpert98 8MB
    card, with RAGE PRO/ TURBO chipset. AGP speeds supported by this card are

    The question is, is there scope for a *meaningful performance upgrade* by
    getting a better grahics card?

    Possibly not, but I'm asking.

    My *motherboard* has AGP 66/133MHz 3.3v device support . That's AGP1.0
    release and speedwise - AGP1x & AGP2x.

    If I look at this table I see the better cards that will work with my


    If pretty sure the AGP socket in my MSI06119 board is fitted with a AGP 3.3V
    (2X) slot. Therefore my *motherboard* support A and D only:

    A: AGP 3.3V (2X) graphics card in an AGP 3.3V (2X) slot.
    D: Universal AGP (2X/4X) graphics card in an AGP 3.3V (2X) slot.

    G: AGP 3.0 (4X/8X) graphics card in an AGP 3.3V (2X) slot (NOT SUPPORTED).

    The outcome of all this is that my motherboard supports:

    RAGE 128
    FIREGL 1

    Okay, would there be any meaningful performance upgrade is I swopped RAGE
    PRO/RAGE PRO TURBO card for say a RAGE 128 or FIREGL 1?
    Richard, Mar 10, 2009
  7. Richard

    Richard Guest

    Yes, what you say is of no great surprise, because I'm kind of getting the
    vibes, but I just need someone to, well,
    confirm it. :c)
    Richard, Mar 10, 2009
  8. Richard

    Richard Guest

    If you had in mind to build a PC that could work with CAD, such as
    SolidWorks, would you not go for a dedicated PCIe video card? I suppose.
    Richard, Mar 10, 2009
  9. Richard

    Augustus Guest

    Not on a Pentium II 350 system it won't....it's a complete waste of time.
    What this guy needs to do is spend some coin on a modern m/b, processor, ram
    and real FireGL or Quadro video card. If it's a serious post, which I have
    doubts about. These are recommended specs for Solid Works....

    "The system requirements[3] for SolidWorks depend partially upon which
    packages[4] or modules are installed in each customer's machine. An
    oversimplification would be to say that one should have a PC with an Intel
    Core2 Duo, 1.8GHz, 2GB RAM, 20GB HD, Windows XP SP2 and Microsoft Internet
    Explorer 6 SP2. The supported graphics cards[5] is a topic beyond the scope
    of this article."

    I find it very hard to believe that anyone remotely serious about installing
    or using an AutoCAD program would engage the n/g in a discussion revolving
    around upgrading such a system.
    Augustus, Mar 10, 2009
  10. Richard

    Richard Guest

    Hi. Oh, perhaps there is some mileage in a video card upgrade! :c)

    I've got a AGP1.0 - 3.3V (2X) slot in my motherboard. This is NOT a
    universal slot.


    "If an AGP card fits in an AGP expansion slot then they are compatible."

    "The AGP connectors on the motherboard are keyed to prevent insertion of AGP
    cards which would be damaged if plugged in. An AGP 3.3V motherboard
    connector can only accept AGP cards which have the 3.3V slot. If you try to
    insert a card without a 3.3V slot into an AGP 3.3V motherboard connector,
    the card will bump into the connector key and cannot be inserted. Likewise
    an AGP 1.5V motherboard connector can only accept AGP cards with the 1.5V
    slot. An AGP universal motherboard connector has no keys and therefore can
    accept any kind of AGP card. An AGP card with both voltage slots can be
    plugged into any kind of AGP motherboard connector. If you can plug an AGP
    card into an AGP motherboard connector, then neither the card nor the
    motherboard will be damaged (assuming they obey the AGP specifications)."

    What I have to is establish what cards fit my AGP socket.

    *AGP 3.3V Motherboard*

    In practice:

    1 AGP 3.3v card- *Works at 3.3v*
    2 AGP1.5v card - Won't fit in slot
    3 Universal AGP card - *Works at 3.3v*
    4 Universal 1.5v AGP3.0 card - Won't fit in slot
    5 Universal AGP 3.0 card- *Works at 3.3v*

    So okay cards are:

    Cards that have a 3.3v slot.
    Cards that have a 3.3v and a 1.5v slot.
    Certain Universal Cards - but not Universal 1.5v.

    Or alternatively, cards that *won't work* are:

    1 Cards that won't fit in the slot.

    So, really that's (basically) the criterion that establishes whether a card
    will or will not work. But in practice other issues may prevent it from

    "One practical matter which must be considered is the fact that some of the
    original AGP 1.0 motherboards do not provide enough power to operate some
    newer AGP video cards reliably. For example, some of the original
    motherboards using the first chipsets which supported AGP (like the Intel
    440LX and 440BX) can become unstable if you install video cards which draw
    lots of power through the AGP slot. The motherboards can't always supply the
    necessary current for the newer video cards. So if you're adding a video
    card to an AGP 1.0 motherboard then it's a good idea to install a video card
    which doesn't consume very much power. "

    My motherboard has 440BX chipset. So, I ought to use a card that does not
    use much power.

    I take it then that the multiplier itself is not so significant. I think you
    may find that even some cards that are 8x will fit into an AGP3.3v AGP slot.
    Of course, I think my motherboard only has speeds up to 2x.

    "Unfortunately, the technical specifications for a video card rarely use
    these terms properly (if at all) to describe the video card. They usually
    just list the fastest AGP multipliers it supports: "8X, 4X", or "4X". From
    that information and the voltage slots on a picture of the video card, you
    can often figure out exactly what it is."

    Okay so in figuring out which cards work we can look at the multipliers and
    a picture of the card to see the slots.

    Let's try it:

    Here are 4x/8x cards:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048 1069609639&name=AGP 4X/8X

    SAPPHIRE 100258L 4x/8x 1.5v and 0.8v - NO GOOD - NO 3.3v

    EVGA 256-A8-N401-LR GeForce 4x/8x - 3.3v and 1.5v slot - GOOD

    XFX PVT44AWANG GeForce 6200 - 3.3v and 1.5v slot - GOOD

    JATON 3DForce6200Twin GeForce 6200 - 3.3v and 1.5v slot - GOOD

    When I say GOOD, I've not thought of the power issue, so that's
    *provisionally* good..


    Discounting for the moment issues like power, if I understand correct, every
    board on that list that has 3.3v signalling, provisionally comes into a
    catagory of compatible. True?
    Richard, Mar 11, 2009
  11. * Richard:
    Yes, there is. Get a Nvidia TNT2, Geforce 2MX or Radeon 7500. All of
    them are old and outdated by todays standards but are much better than
    the ancient Rage Pro series which is now over a decade old and was bad
    already when it came out. The listed cards should be available for
    almost nothing today.

    Of course this doesn't change the fact that for around 30USD you can get
    a much better computer (P3 1GHz range with decent gfx card of that aera)
    that runs circles around your current setup, no matter what gfx card you
    put in.

    Benjamin Gawert, Mar 11, 2009
  12. * Bill:
    Yes and no. Yes for the Geforce 6 GPUs that have a native AGP interface
    (i.e. some 6800GTs), no for the PCIe versions that use the AGP bridge.

    However, anything above a Geforce 2 is completely and utterly silly in
    such a system.

    Benjamin Gawert, Mar 11, 2009
  13. Richard

    Richard Guest

    I've not decided what to do, and I get your drift about getting a new
    motherboard, but I am curious about an answer to the question.

    (I am in fact going to build a second PC with a more modern motherboard in
    the new tower case I've bought).

    I've mentioned CAD. If I could, and it it would work in my system, I'd try
    to get an old card that was meant for CAD. Of course, not that I could ever
    run SolidWorks or anything like that mind you.

    Video cards made for CAD concentrate on specifications associated with the
    use of CAD of course. I think the FIREGL 1 might work with my old PC. I'm
    assuming that this card might be better than the ones you mention for a
    lightweight CAD program - but then you wonder would a CAD programme, that my
    PC could handle, be able to take advantage of a video card made for CAD even
    if it's an old card. Difficult question and the answer could well be: No!

    A card might be allright, and an improvement, but my motherboard too old to
    run a decent CAD program that actually took advantage of a dedicated CAD
    video card and it's specs. Yes, I'm likely to be in that situation with my
    old motherboard.
    Richard, Mar 12, 2009
  14. Richard

    Richard Guest


    Decent CAD-type cards often require more power that my 440BX chipset can
    reliably deliver.

    Motherboard too old and slow to run a CAD program that could take advantage
    of a good CAD video card.

    That's about it with the CAD-type video cards I think.

    So, any "meaningful improvement" would *not* likely come via an old, but
    dedicated CAD video card, but the kind of cards you mention, Nvidia TNT2,
    Geforce 2MX or Radeon 7500 etc. Which are probably game cards I think.

    I don't play games, or watch DVD's, so when I think about it, although
    their might be some "meaningful improvement", I'm finding it hard to imagine
    a precise situation where that would be true. :c)

    Possibly watching video from YouTube and possibly that's it. Probably not
    using a CAD program.
    Richard, Mar 12, 2009
  15. Richard

    GMAN Guest

    Also, the older FireGL didnt do DirectX. I have a FireGL4 and its OpenGL only.
    GMAN, Mar 12, 2009
  16. * Richard:
    That would be a Quadro 2 MXR/Pro or a FireGL 8700/8800 then.
    You can, but only very old versions.
    Yes, it does, and no, I would not recommend it. The FireGL 1 is really
    old and slow card that only does OpenGL and nothing else. It was bad
    when it was new, and it is even worse today. The latest drivers are
    probably as old as your computer.

    No, it's not. In fact, any card I mentioned is way better than the
    FireGL 1/2/3/4 series.
    So why not investing say 50 bucks and getting a way better computer from

    Benjamin Gawert, Mar 12, 2009
  17. * Richard:
    No, they don't. The Nvidia Quadro series or the ATI FireGL 8700 and
    later use the same amount of power like their Geforce/Radeon counterparts.

    Benjamin Gawert, Mar 12, 2009
  18. Richard

    Richard Guest

    Exactly. That what I really should do. Don't mess about with my really old
    mboard but get a half decent mboard.
    Richard, Mar 14, 2009
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