CCMOS jumper

Discussion in 'Abit' started by Guest, Dec 24, 2005.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Is there anything special about a CCMOS jumper that is any different
    from a normal jumper ?

    I booted this morning and, once again, my computer came up with the
    CCMOS not set correctly problem, after I thought I had solved this
    problem with my battery. So I looked at the large yellow CCMOS jumper
    and noticed that it was open slightly above where it plugs in and some
    of the jumper metal was showing just beneath the extended handle where I
    can pull it off the CCMOS and put it back on. So I have tried replacing
    this with an ordinary jumper to see if that would fix my intermittent
    CCMOS not set correctly problem. My thought was that the metallic
    opening may be dissipating the CMOS settings.
     
    Guest, Dec 24, 2005
    #1
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  2. That jumper contacts the power input of the onboard CMOS RAM
    either to the battery so it can keep the data when you switch off the system
    or - if you choose the other position-
    it connects the power supply input of the CMOS RAM to ground
    deleting all content of the RAM (Clear CMOS).
    Usually the CMOS RAM also gets power from the board itself
    as long as the power supply is on.

    So if the jumper is not on the CMOS RAM will loose your settings
    when you switch off the computer.
     
    Friedrich Wuelfing, Dec 24, 2005
    #2
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  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Can I use a regular jumper or is the CCMOS jumper special in some way ?
     
    Guest, Dec 24, 2005
    #3
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I understand that. What I mean to ask is whether the jumper pin, which
    is a large yellow pin across pins 1-2 of the CCMOS jumper in order to
    retain the CMOS settings, is special in any way, or can I use any two
    opening jumper pin.
     
    Guest, Dec 24, 2005
    #4
  5. Edward Diener No Spam wrote:
    |
    | I understand that. What I mean to ask is whether the jumper pin,
    | which is a large yellow pin across pins 1-2 of the CCMOS jumper
    | in order to retain the CMOS settings, is special in any way, or can
    | I use any two opening jumper pin.


    The CMOS jumper is "special" in that it consists of a piece of highly
    conductive metal (probably copper), encased in plastic.

    Actually any jumper that fits snugly across two pins, making adequate
    positive contact, will do the trick. There's really nothing special about
    jumpers .. all they do is complete a circuit.

    Jef
     
    Lurking Rat in 'Da Hood®, Dec 24, 2005
    #5
  6. I understand that. What I mean to ask is whether the jumper pin, which is
    Just an ordinary jumper contact will do it.
    You only have to connect the matching pins with a piece of conducting metal.
     
    Friedrich Wuelfing, Dec 24, 2005
    #6
  7. "Edward Diener No Spam" wrote in message...
    Hey Ed, I know it's said that the only stupid question is the one that's
    never asked, but looking at your various posts to this group, are you really
    sure that building your own PC is something you're truly suited to? If you
    really can't answer your own question regarding this jumper issue, I really
    do wonder why you're not sat happily in front of a Dell (etc.) right now.

    You're asking so many truly obvious questions I'm really starting to wonder
    whether you're a troll, but if not, I tend to think you'd be well served by
    one of those "PC Building for Dummies" books, as such a thing would give you
    the basic grounding you obviously lack, and save everyone else a lot of
    unnecessary hand-holding.
    --


    Richard Hopkins
    Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
    (replace nospam with pipex in reply address)

    The UK's leading technology reseller www.dabs.com
     
    Richard Hopkins, Dec 27, 2005
    #7
  8. Guest

    0_Qed Guest

    ....snip...


    RH ...

    <VBG>
    "Some" little bit harsh,
    but well to the point.

    I 'too' had "thot" troll ,
    but concluded (hopefully) not.

    'Dear' Edw. should aughta learn how to do his own preliminary research
    before resorting to basic <?>s placed upon this NG ... I'd opine.

    Its 'well' that hes attempting the DIY route ,
    he just needs to get beyond the 'qed' stuff, by himself, on his own .

    I'd advise 'Edw.' to do his own homework 1st,
    then, failing to find answers, .... ??Google?? , ??Alta_Vista?? ...
    resort to the NG.
    Self_reliance goes a =long= way toward success,
    and engenders ever increasing self_confidence.

    'Edw.' ...
    post away,
    but "hmwk" 1st,
    please.

    .........
    -RH-
    Are you filks, across the 'Pond',
    "deep" froze over in the same fashion as 'we' are, here in 'NE' ???


    Best of the Season's Wishes,
    Qed.
     
    0_Qed, Dec 27, 2005
    #8
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Good luck in posting about something you do not know about in the
    future, and then have someone blast you for asking questions. I'm having
    a problem with the battery in my AT7 losing its settings. There is NO
    mention of the battery in the manual, or how it is supposed to be
    inserted. As simple as it should be, mine is not working, so I am trying
    to find out what are the possibilities of why it does not work. I
    thought that maybe the problem was with my CCMOS jumper, since I noticed
    the plastic handle was cracked a bit and some of the metal was showing
    through. I didn't think there should be any difference between the
    jumper supplied with the AT7 board and any other jumper but I thought I
    would ask anyway.

    No one has to answer anything on this NG. But I sure as hell will ask
    questions when I am having problems and/or trying to figure things out,
    and if I get no answers I certainly don't take it personally or get
    upset. I am a relative novice building systems and am currently building
    my second one.

    As far as doing investigations about something, you are right that I
    should do this, which I often do, but if I still can not find out why
    something is not working on my system, I ask here in case someone else
    has had the same problem since I have an Abit mobo.
     
    Guest, Dec 27, 2005
    #9
  10. Edward Diener No Spam wrote:
    |
    <snip>
    |
    | I'm having a problem with the battery in my AT7 losing its settings.
    |
    <snip a whole lot more>
    |

    Actually you are having a problem with the motherboard failing to maintain
    your settings in CMOS memory. This can be caused by many things ..
    including the two you have so far zeroed in on: a bad battery and the clear
    CMOS jumper.

    Allow me to make another suggestion of something that I think you've yet to
    try in your attempts to get your new computer put together:

    Have you attempted to start the motherboard out of the case? Have you
    thoroughly tested your CPU and RAM prior to attempting to install an OS?

    I suggest this because CMOS memory will sometimes get erased when you have a
    short between your motherboard and the case.

    The way to eliminate this possibility is to try a bare-bones out of the case
    test build.

    (yes .. it's a lot of work to build it up only to have to tear it down ..
    but, in the future, this would be a better first step to determine if your
    motherboard is, in fact, good)

    Place the motherboard on a non-conductive surface. Plain, non-printed,
    cardboard is a good working surface.

    Connect up the CPU, HSF, a single stick of RAM, PSU, keyboard, video card
    and monitor. Do not connect any drives at this point. We're only
    interested to see if the board will attempt to POST at this point.

    With the PSU unplugged from the wall outlet, move the CCMOS1 jumper to pins
    2 and 3 for a few moments and then return it to pins 1 and 2. Plug in the
    PSU. The reason we do this is to clear the CMOS so you'll be certain to get
    a CMOS Checksum error at the next step (your CPU and memory timing will be
    set at failsafe defaults).

    Turn on the PSU and use a small blade screwdriver to momentarily contact the
    two pins where the power switch connects. You don't have to maintain this
    contact as the switch only completes a circuit momentarily to signal to the
    board that it should start.

    At the POST screen, press DEL to go into the setup screens. You should get
    a CMOS Checksum error at this point with a message to press F1 to continue
    or DEL to go into the setup screens.

    In the setup screens, choose the option to Load Optimized Defaults then look
    to see that your CPU and memory are properly detected in the first screen
    (they should be). Then save your settings and exit. Allow the board to
    reboot, saving your settings. After the POST screen you should just hang as
    there's nothing connected to boot to. Turn off the PSU and unplug it.

    Wait a few minutes. Plug in your PSU and attempt to start the board again.
    Hopefully you won't get a CMOS Checksum error (which would indicate that
    your settings are still failing to be saved). Press DEL to go into the
    setup screens and look to see if your CPU and RAM are properly detected. If
    they are, continue with the below. If they aren't, something else is amok
    and it's probably time to RMA the motherboard back to Abit.

    If your CPU and RAM are properly detected the second time in the setup
    screens, shut off your PSU (don't worry .. you won't hurt anything by
    killing the setup screens because you haven't attempted to change anything).

    Unplug your PSU and connect up a floppy drive (power and data cables). Put
    a floppy disk in the drive set up with Memtest (http://www.memtest.org).
    Start your system again and, this time, go into the Standard CMOS Features
    menu and ensure that your floppy drive is detected as Drive A and Floppy
    Mode 3 Support is Disabled (we're not in Japan). Go into the Advanced BIOS
    Features menu and ensure that your First Boot Device is Floppy (the Second
    and Third are immaterial at this point). Save and exit, allow your settings
    to be saved and the system to reboot.

    This time the diskette should start to boot and Memtest should automatically
    start to run. Allow the program to run all the way through at least once
    (this will take some time). This exercise is to ensure that your memory is
    good. If you want, you can also try torture testing your CPU and RAM with a
    utility such as Prime95.

    If you make it through all the above, you can be reasonably certain that you
    had a short somewhere to the case in your build. You should check to ensure
    that all your studs line up cleanly with the center of all the mounting
    holes and you don't have any studs installed where there is no hole in the
    motherboard. Sometimes this can be the result of a bent stud in your
    motherboard pan (they don't always line up correctly and can end up shorting
    to traces on the board).

    Install the rest of your memory prior to putting the motherboard back in the
    case. Your CPU and RAM should remain present on the board when installing
    in the case. Motherboards often "flex" when screwed to the pan. Installing
    RAM and clipping on the CPU can be a pain when the motherboard is already in
    the case.

    After you have the motherboard built back into the case, once again, have
    only the Floppy connected. Boot the system, go into the setup screens to
    ensure that you're still retaining your CMOS settings. Let the system boot
    to the floppy and run Memtest again, this time with all your memory
    installed. Prime95 would be a good next step here, too.

    Only after you have accomplished the above should you connect up the optical
    drives and hard disks and install your OS.

    Hopefully this gives you some insight. Rather than flame back at Richard
    when he suggests that more homework is necessary, please realize that all of
    the above I have cut & paste from my own notes is posted all over the web.

    Jef
     
    Lurking Rat in 'Da Hood®, Dec 27, 2005
    #10
  11. Guest

    0_Qed Guest

    Edw.,

    Edw.,

    "Richard" is a well respected NG 'Mentor' here.
    Perhaps his stern_ness is in the fore_front ,
    and shows up '1st' , of all the NG posters.

    I doubt 'he' needs 'moi' to defend him.
    :)
    Here are my two(2) haypennys , anyway.

    "Blast" is some harsh ... " sternly counseled " is a better choice
    of terms.

    "R" has asked <?>s ... most fairly deep & techie.
    Sometimes he gets an answer, 'times' not.

    Its the CMOS memory that loses 'settings' .

    "Rude" removal of the coin cell can affect the +\- contacts ,
    loosen them up a bit.

    =Typically=, the lower, mobo facing, 'button' side in neg(-) ,
    'tother is pos(+)

    =Typically= theres a swiveled contact 'lever' for the pos(+) side,
    after the cell insertion is accomplished.

    Insure that there is enuf spring tension , left in the 'lever'.
    to ;
    .. hold the cell "in" .
    .. properly 'contact' the [+] side.

    I suspect that =just= the metal jumper structure is enuf ,
    even if the plastic 'carrier' has broken away.
    The carrier is just "that" ... meant to ease hndling of the jumper.
    I use modded surgeon's forceps to 'handle' jumpers, generally.

    Most all 'jumpers' are fabricated to the "a" standard pin/connector
    spacing.
    Save the ones from your dead HDs, they aughta fit.

    =Nor=,
    should get 'upset' when counseled.
    :)

    "We" all can say that.


    <VBG>
    I can =only= add ... do 'it' more.

    OUCH!!!
    Aughta be done 150% of the time.

    I dont bother to 'fish' for laggards ...
    finding 'it' generally to be a waste of time.

    'Time ago ...
    I had a Prof, in G_School, advise us =all=,
    that 50% would fall by the wayside before the semester was 4 weeks old.
    "We" actually shrunk to 30% in 4 weeks.
    Its called =incentive= to survive.
    He'd make "R" look like a tip_toeing, 'PC' pussy cat.


    Qed.
     
    0_Qed, Dec 27, 2005
    #11
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Actually this is my old computer, the one I am now on. The new one I
    have not fired up yet to see if it works. Once I do, and if I have any
    problems, I will probably ask some questions here after doing as much
    investigation as I can beforehand.

    So the computer I have now, my AT7, has been working pretty well for
    about 3 years but has recently developed the CCMOS startup problem.
    Everything works properly except for the CCMOS losing its settings after
    I boot. Once I set them, and keep the power on to the computer, there
    are no problems. If I turn the computer off, and the power off ( from a
    UPS connected to the computer ), the next time I boot I have to reset
    the CCMOS again by going into the BIOS screens. I am just trying to find
    out why.
    This would have to have developed recently for some odd reason. I
    haven't dropped the case are knocked it really hard, but maybe something
    did come a little loose.
    OK, understood the procedure and have saved it. I will try it at the
    "last resort" since undoing my mobo from the case is a real PITA. Thanks
    for the info below on how to do this. It is really appreciated.
     
    Guest, Dec 27, 2005
    #12
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I understand that. I believe he has helped me in the past with some
    answers to my questions. I have just been frustrated with this problem
    which is irritating.
    That's possible. The metal strip which runs transverse on the bottom of
    the battery holder, and which is probably there to hold it in place,
    does seem a little more loose than normal.
    So the positive should be facing up ? Is that the smooth side of the
    CR2032 battery with the big + on it, or is it the other side which has a
    raised circular indent slightly away from the edge ?
    The 'lever' is at the bottom of the battery holder on the AT7, and is a
    strip of metal running transverse along the bottom and then hooking up
    at its end. It does not swivel but does seem a little loose, or bent
    down. With the battery out of the battery holder I have tried to pull it
    up a little so that when the battery is in, the hooking up part at the
    end holds the battery better in its holder. However if this metal lever
    is supposed to touch the + side, and since it runs along the bottom of
    the battery holder and hooks up, this leads me to believe that the +
    side must be down and not up. Of course you may mean that it is supposed
    to touch the + side with the hook up at the end.
    That is what I am seeing, that the spring tension is a bit loose. I have
    tried to pull it up with the battery out so that when the battery is in,
    the 'lever' is holding it in its holder more firmly.
    I do not see a plastic carrier, unless this be the holder where I insert
    the battery.
    Yes, I have a bunch of old two-pin jumpers. I have no idea which is "a"
    standard pin/connector spacing among them. The jumper which came with
    the mobo, a yellow one, has a fairly long handle for ease in removing it
    and inserting it back on its pins. When last I looked the handle was
    slightly cracked and a bit of the metal was showing, so I thought that
    maybe that was causing my problem. Which is why I asked if I could use
    another jumper on the CCMOS pins.
    OK, my problem is real and irritating to me, and I am just trying to
    solve it once and for all so I don't continually have to rekey my BIOS
    settings when I boot.

    Thanks for your help.
     
    Guest, Dec 27, 2005
    #13
  14. "Edward Diener No Spam" wrote in message...
    Good grief Ed, don't be such a whiny drama queen, it really doesn't suit
    you. I wasn't blasting you by any stretch, I was being firm but clear and
    quite fair in my comments.

    As has been suggested by one of the other posters already, I don't mince
    words, and you can pretty much count on the fact that whatever I may have
    said, others here will be thinking, so stop for a minute and think about it.
    This is part of your problem Ed. The reason there's no mention of the
    battery insertion in the manual is because the battery holder itself will
    normally be marked, and in any case simple *common sense* should tell you
    how the battery and holder mate together.

    Just look at the battery note how the positive side is effectively its
    "case", and how the negative part is the "button". Then look at the contacts
    on the holder and see how they are designed, with one designed to hit the
    "centre" of the battery and the other designed to clip over the edge. Do you
    really need instructions to tell you how to put the battery in?

    The point I was making, bluntly, is that if you need a manual to tell you
    this sort of thing, you're probably not the sort of person who's best suited
    to building his own PC. You may not like to hear this, but it doesn't make
    it untrue.
    And indeed you should. Before doing so, however, you should bear in mind the
    basic tenets of netiquette. One of which is that you should search the group
    and its archives/FAQs before asking basic questions, and the other of which
    is that you shouldn't confine yourself to this group *specifically* when
    looking for answers.
    Yes, I'm well aware of that, which is why I suggested you get yourself a
    book or similar, so you can bone up on some of the elementary issues you
    still seem to be in the dark about that. You freely admit to being
    inexperienced, so don't act like it's an insult when someone else notices,
    and suggests ways in which you might address it.
    --


    Richard Hopkins
    Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
    (replace nospam with pipex in reply address)

    The UK's leading technology reseller www.dabs.com
     
    Richard Hopkins, Dec 28, 2005
    #14
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Your point does not logically follow. Anybody can take some area in
    which they are expert and claim that because someone else does not know
    some miniscule part of that area that they should not be interested in
    the area as a whole and should give it up for other things. Knowledge
    itself is so vast, even in the smallest things, that such claims have no
    substance. Think about it; does it really matter that I do not know how
    computer batteries fit in their case for me to still want to build my
    own computer system. Only your own ego will tell you that it really matters.

    There are tons of quite irritating people on the Internet, who because
    they know some small thing, flaunt their ego at others, snidely making
    remarks to belittle another person asking questions as if that proved
    their own worth to themselves and others. I do not claim you are one of
    those people but I have dealt with enough of them to become tired of
    their pettiness and their narrow intelligence.

    I can see the positive and negative side of my battery. I can see the
    metal holder which holds it in place from beneath and curls slightly
    over the top edge. Now by what criteria should I know whether the metal
    holder beneath should be running beneath the "case" positive part or the
    "button" negative part ? I see no "common sense" in this sort of
    knowledge, nor do I even value "common sense" very much if what it means
    is to somehow divine such knowledge. No doubt this is knowledge that
    someone has but because I do not have it what does that really mean
    about me or the person that does. Absolutely nothing AFAIK.
     
    Guest, Dec 29, 2005
    #15
  16. "Edward Diener No Spam" wrote in message...
    I'm sure you're correct Ed. However, the situation you are describing above
    has no relevance to the situation at hand. I don't proclaim to be an
    "expert", and nor am I suggesting that just because you're lacking in some
    "miniscule" area you should steer clear of the entire subject. Your posting
    history suggests your shortcomings are waaaay beyond "miniscule", I'd
    suggest words like "comprehensive" or "fundamental" would be closer to the
    mark.

    As mentioned in my original post on this thread, I have seen a succession of
    frankly obvious questions from you, to the extent where I thought you were
    beyond merely ignorant and uninformed, and were actively playing the dumbass
    as a trolling attempt. And before you try and bite back at me, look at Qed
    and Jef's comments further up.
    Lol, Ed, no, it's nothing to do why my ego, one way or t'other. It matters
    in as much as if you can't work out something as simple as which way to
    insert a battery into a holder, or look at a jumper and see that it's
    nothing more than a simple metal contact clip in a plastic holder, how on
    earth are you going to work out the stuff that's actually a bit tricky?

    There's nothing wrong with the desire to want to build your own computer,
    but it's not a subject for the technologically ignorant, and if you're
    ignorant to the extent you suggest, are you going to carry on expecting
    others to tell you how to wipe your own arse every time you come up against
    something that perplexes you? Where's the achievement in that?
    Good oh.
    Excellent. You're keeping up.
    Just look at the thing Ed, it's simple enough. If you put the battery in
    with the "button" uppermost, both the contacts (the one in the middle of the
    holder and the "clip" that curls round the edge) will be contacting the
    (positively charged) case. Ergo, there is nothing contacting the negatively
    charged "button" so no circuit, no voltage.

    If, however, you fit the battery the other way round, the contact in the
    middle of the holder will press onto the (negative) button, while the clip
    on the edge grabs the (positive) case. Voila. Circuit made, electricity
    flows. Is this really too big a concept for you to grasp?
    Yes, Ed, this is obvious. And this is precisely the sort of comment that
    prompted my suggestion that you're not the sort of person cut out for
    building your own computer. If you can't fit a battery the right way round
    just by looking at the thing and divining how it works, frankly, how fucking
    stupid are you?
    As far as *you* know. Maybe you should try knowing some more, and see where
    that gets you?
    --


    Richard Hopkins
    Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
    (replace nospam with pipex in reply address)

    The UK's leading technology reseller www.dabs.com
     
    Richard Hopkins, Dec 30, 2005
    #16
  17. Guest

    0_Qed Guest

    Richard Hopkins wrote:

    ....snip...

    All 'windmills' are tilt_at_able ...
    except ...
    when "they" lower thier sails as a signal of submission.

    Qed.
     
    0_Qed, Dec 30, 2005
    #17
  18. Richard Hopkins wrote:
    |
    <snip>
    |
    | Just look at the thing Ed, it's simple enough. If you put the battery
    | in with the "button" uppermost, both the contacts (the one in the
    | middle of the holder and the "clip" that curls round the edge) will
    | be contacting the (positively charged) case. Ergo, there is
    | nothing contacting the negatively charged "button" so no circuit,
    | no voltage.
    |
    | If, however, you fit the battery the other way round, the contact
    | in the middle of the holder will press onto the (negative) button,
    | while the clip on the edge grabs the (positive) case. Voila.
    | Circuit made, electricity flows. Is this really too big a concept
    | for you to grasp?
    |
    <snip>
    |

    After re-reading this thread, I was curious about the orientation of the
    battery on Ed's board and his attempts to make the battery fit snug in it's
    holder .. by bending things.

    So I went looking for an image (Arrrg Mateys, Google be me friend!) and I
    see that the board in question has one of those ubiquitous "standing on it's
    edge" battery holders, rather than one that sits flat on the surface of the
    board.

    This is, at least, what I can discern from a small image:
    http://home.datacomm.ch/belle.alliance/Pics/Thumbs+ Files/Abit AT7 MAX.jpg

    So .. pondering here mates .. I wonder if Ed has somehow managed to bend the
    positive contact in the battery holder such that it has made contact with
    both terminals of the battery and, as a result, quickly discharged his
    silvery little doubloon.

    Only way to know for sure is to pop it back out and tread back to the Radio
    Shack store and have the helpful clerk meter it.

    If discharged, as I suspect, a new battery is certainly in order. Those
    little coin cells don't like to live when they be shorted out .. by penalty
    of walking the plank to spend all eternity in the belly of a great white
    whale.

    Also in order is a visual inspection of how the positive contact is situated
    to ensure that it's not touching both sides of the battery. If Ed's pulled
    the contact which clips over the top of the battery up from the base of the
    holder to "firm things up," as he seems to have described, it's time to
    gently press it back into it's proper location and gently bend the clip in
    toward the holder somewhat as the more appropriate method to make positive
    contact would suggest and then reinstall the battery with the positive
    terminal making positive contact with the clip.

    And .. given that the battery holder appears to be in a dodgy place on the
    board to work while in the case (and see what one is doing), we're back to
    my whole tired tirade of a bare-bones out of the case build .. to properly
    seat the battery and then test and rebuild things.

    Yours truly from some guy who's totally fucked up his share of things by
    fiddling with them -
    Lurking Rat in 'Da Hood®

    Jef
     
    Lurking Rat in 'Da Hood®, Dec 30, 2005
    #18
  19. Guest

    0_Qed Guest

    Lurking Rat in 'Da Hood® wrote:

    ....snip...

    < /ESL failure 'on' >

    Nawwww ... thats an awful thing to which to admit to.

    < \ESL failure 'off' >

    ......
    Maybe we ughta nominate Edw. D. as a Guru in Training ... a 'GiT'.
    Added that we counsel him in the black art of clarity of description.

    Qed.
     
    0_Qed, Dec 30, 2005
    #19
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    That's it.
    Is the positive contact the metal strip that is connected at its end to
    the mobo on one side of the battery holder, runs transversely along one
    side of the battery as it stands up in its holder and curls up at the
    end ? In that case the battery needs to go so that the + side is against
    the metal contact and the curl at the end is not touching the negative
    button part, and the purpose of the curl at the end is simply to better
    hold the battery in place.
     
    Guest, Dec 30, 2005
    #20
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