??==Delete key only backspaces w/o delete from Telnet in Mac OSX Terminal

A) When logged into VMS 7.2-1 with Telnet from the Mac OS X Terminal:

In the command line,

1) the DELETE Key backspaces one character but doesn't delete the
character.
2) the cursor also backspaces into the Prompt.

The DELETE key functions correctly in the VMS Editor.

B) When logged into
Compaq Tru64 UNIX V5.1 (Rev. 732); Fri Feb 21 10:23:12 CET 2003.

the DELETE key functions correctly.

QUESTION:

How do I get the DELETE Key to function properly with VMS?

 

It has been a decade since I used VMS, so I don't remember the VMS
equivalent of the Unix stty command, but that would be the *correct*
way of fixing the problem.

As a temporary fix. Under Terminal, go to "Window Settings", select
"Emulation", and click on "Delete key sends backspace". That will fix
your problem in the VMS shell.

It may however break the use of the delete key in the VMS editor. This
really should be fixed by keymapping on the VMS side.

Beverly

 

Bev,

Thanks for your quick reply. I'll try our VMSbox again the next time I'm
in the office.

However, if I check "Delete Key sends backspace" the result on the
Unixbox (reachable from home) is:

kkk^H^H^H^H

 

Yes, I expected that. You'll have to use two separate settings files
of each of the two computers -- one for VMS and one for Tru64. I wish
I could remember what the VMS term setting command was to fix the
backspace<->delete bugaboo.

Beverly

 

You can't remember it because there isn't any. The only options
you have are to control it at the client side or to use an X11
based terminal emulator which will allow the VMS system to use
xmodmap.

 

.... The only options

But Bob - why does the delete key work in non-X11 terminal programs such
as VersaTerm and Kermit - without xmodmap?

We've used VersaTerm on pre-X MacOS since the beginning of Mac (almost)
and never had to set any extra options in VMS. Unfortunately, Synergy is
not porting VersaTerm to MacOSX.

 

As a side note, we are adding a new set terminal command and terminal
attribute so that the user can select BACKSPACE == DELETE. That is, treat
backspace (^H) as a rubout as well as delete as a rubout. I think it's in
V7.3-2, I know it will be in the IA64 release (dunno if it made it into
7.3-2 offhand). The function key to get to the start of the current line
will still work normally even when this mode is set.

 

Fred, that's both interesting and good news.

Is there (or will there be) a patch for Open VMS 7.2-1?

 

Fred, another thought - What code sequence does the Terminal have to
send in order to have the delete key work properly on the VMS host? If I
pass this code on to the MacTelnet or iTerm/Mac folks, perhaps someone
will take pity on us and add this as an option.

 

Presumably an Ascii <DEL> character.

The idea that a key labeled Delete would send something other than <DEL>
is strange, but perhaps those terminal emulators are mimicing Microsoft.

 

I have not been able to convince Terminal on MacOS X to send the proper
keys for PF1-PF4, although it did the lower keypad keys for me OK. I use
those PF keys extensively for ANUNEWS, so I am back to OS 9.1.

 

If they have mapped F1-F4 onto PF1-PF4, what does one use to send a real
F1-F4 character ?

Besides, I am using an Apple Keyboard (Model M0116) which does not have
any F1-F<whatever> keys, only PF1-PF4, labeled <clear>, =, /, *.

 

DEL. ASCII 127.

 

I have a PowerBook 520c with that key combination, which is _not_ what
I need. I need the Escape key just to the left of the "1" key, and I
have no use for that ` key except to type Usenet messages about it.

But even if the powerbook _did_ have the escape key adjacent to "1",
and had the Control key adjacent to "A",
and had tactile feedback more like an Apple Keyboard or a VTxxx keyboard,
I don't see any way to wire the PowerBook keyboard up to my Gefen ADB KVM.

Ok, but I don't see what it has to do with the Escape key

 

: > In article <G2S3b.3784$>,
: >
: > > As a side note, we are adding a new set terminal command and terminal
: > > attribute so that the user can select BACKSPACE == DELETE. That is,
: > > treat backspace (^H) as a rubout as well as delete as a rubout. I think
: > > it's in V7.3-2, I know it will be in the IA64 release (dunno if it made
: > > it into 7.3-2 offhand). The function key to get to the start of the
: > > current line will still work normally even when this mode is set.
: >
: Fred, another thought - What code sequence does the Terminal have to
: send in order to have the delete key work properly on the VMS host? If I
: pass this code on to the MacTelnet or iTerm/Mac folks, perhaps someone
: will take pity on us and add this as an option.
:
Hi Hans. It's amazing how this issue has still not been settled everywhere
and for all time after more than 30 years. I tried to summarize it in a
web page:

http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/backspace.html

It's written for Kermit users, but almost anybody who suffers from this
problem should find it helpful.

- Frank

 

Elliott, I tried your suggestion this (Monday) morning using the MacOS X
Terminal with 'delete sends backspace' unchecked.

With "telnet vmsbox-ip" the delete key works as it should.

HOWEVER, in order to have the German Umlauts display correctly on the
terminal, I have to connect with:

"telnet -8 vmsbox-ip"

Then the delete key apparently sends end of command line.

 

On VMS the character that needs to be sent to delete a character is 0x7f
(DEL) . Command line
recall and editing was added 0x8 (BS) was selected as the return to the start
of a line character.
Why CTRL-H I don't know its choice predates my involvement with the VMS
terminal driver.

I recently added a new attribute definition to the VMS terminal driver.
The bit name is TT3$M_BS
when this attribute is set the terminal driver when it seed 0x8 changes it to
0x7f. There are a couple of
exceptions to this. If the line is set to passall or pasthru, or a read with
IO$M_NOFILTR is set we
do not remap it. Additionally, if a user enters CTRL-V followed by CTRL-H
twice we will treat
go to the start of the line. We also do not remap the ESCAPE sequence sent by
the F12 key.

Yes this will show up in a show terminal command and there is a set
terminal command to change
it. We are not going to enable this new behavior as the default. But
customers can make a site
policy decision to enable it by setting the bit in the new sysgen parameter
TTY_DEFCHAR3.

This work was not done for V7.3-2, at the point where the decision was
made to do this it was
to late to check this into that release. We will not be back porting this to
V7.3-2 or V7.3-1.

Forrest Kenney
OpenVMS

 

I do not know if it will help, but try iTerm.
<http://iterm.sourceforge.net/>

Bob Harris

 

Because when you use the delete key on those clients, the client
sends a proper ASCII delete character.

I've mostly used NCSA telnet for years, NCSA dropped Mac a while
back. Later I tried BetterTelnet, which I think is a FAT with OS X
support. Nowdays I'm using NiftyTelnet which has SSH built in and is
also built for OS X. I have no problems with the delete key on any of
them.