Dell sued for "bait and switch" and false promises

Discussion in 'Dell' started by Timothy Daniels, Feb 27, 2005.

  1. Timothy Daniels

    Leythos Guest

    The problem is that technology has made it very easy to be a global
    community of businesses. While some still struggle with it, many are
    getting it right, and that ease of communication then levels the field.
    When it use to require local workers and local parts a local wage was the
    norm, now I can move almost my entire business outside any country and
    take advantage of the remote countries wage structure - which directly
    impacts (negatively) my home country's economy, but many companies don't
    care about that effect.

    It's interesting to see that IT workers in India that use to earn $3/day
    (USD) are now making the equivalent (USD) of $30K/$40K per year due to the
    leveling of the workforce resources. As it turns out, the economy is like
    water, it will spread until it's level across the paying region. Wages
    will drop in the US, increase in remote countries, and things will level
    out, it's never going to be the same, and it's going to continue to
    change. Your only option is to see it and learn how to survive with the
    changes or you will be lost in the sea.
     
    Leythos, Mar 2, 2005
    #41
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  2. i don't follow what you are trying to say about the dates on the documents
    or what it means to have discharge papers issued at time of separation or
    not... but to discredit kerry's service record without a clear and
    researched argument is absurd. given bush's spotty service record the
    attack on kerry's record seems to stink of being another weapon of mass
    distraction. i would love to know the truth about both of them and i am
    open to listen to your argument about the problems with kerry's service
    record if you would put it into laymen's terms. but i also understand if
    you don't want to spend the time doing that...
     
    Christopher Muto, Mar 2, 2005
    #42
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  3. Timothy Daniels

    Leythos Guest

    it's quite simple - when you are discharged from a branch or move from
    active duty to reserves you are given a discharge from that branch. If you
    look at all the documents posted in the links you will be able to start
    seeing things inconsistent with the dates and how dates on one document
    that reference another documents date don't match.

    Kerry was discharged after 6 years, that puts his discharge data in 72
    (maybe 73, I can't remember) if I remember correctly. His paperwork,
    revised, shows 78 in one palace, a DD215 says it's referencing a discharge
    DD214 dated in 70, and other inconsistent dates on the forms that were
    presented. What none of us has seen is his discharge paper DD214 from his
    initial enlistment. The only thing you can come close to is the amended
    discharge paperwork that was updated due to Carters amnesty program.

    I my mind, a figure running for office that makes grand claims about his
    service and HONORABLE service at that, and has questionable accounting of
    his medals, and that supported the Enemy Political Engine during his early
    years, has discredited himself. Kerry's only hope of salvation is to make
    the truth public, show his initial separation DD214, admit the truth about
    his Medals, admit and ask for forgiveness by the American people for his
    giving comfort to the Enemy, and to do so without any conditional BS. If
    he would have done that I would have voted for him. As a honorably
    discharged member of the Navy, having seen/done things that were never
    reported, or where the opposite was reported, having work with Intel, I
    have what I consider my honest opinion of him based on what I consider to
    be factual accounts and factual withholdings of information that should be
    available from any honorable person.

    If you were to talk with 10,000 Vets that were given Honorable discharges,
    you would not find one that you be afraid to show you - that simple thing
    is very telling of Kerry.
     
    Leythos, Mar 2, 2005
    #43
  4. i get that you are passionate about this, but i still don't understand what
    your objection is to the service records that are plainly listed on his web
    site http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/military_records.html
    lets take this one step at a time... start with the dd214. box 13
    (character of service) says "honorable". what in this document do you find
    objectionable?
     
    Christopher Muto, Mar 2, 2005
    #44
  5. Timothy Daniels

    RRR_News Guest

    Chris,
    Basically, if his original DD214 read anything but "Honorable", he could not
    run for US Senate, and maybe even public office in Massachusetts. If he got
    some type of amnesty during the Carter years, people would wonder why, and
    how it was accomplished. If you look further through the DD214 form, you
    would have seen that there were no separation papers issued to him, in the
    Remarks section, referring to line "13b". Also, there was a change in his
    original separation date, almost a two (2) year, discrepancy. Even if it was
    a delay in processing DD214's during that time period. He should have been
    able to provide discharge orders for termination of service. These would
    have been issued so that he could travel back to his hometown. On the form
    would show the type of discharge he received at the time.

    My reenlistment orders when I was in the Army, shows that I received an
    Honorable discharge from my first enlistment. I was not issued a DD214 for
    the first enlistment, but I have a copy of the orders. And I got them after
    10 years out of the service. So Kerry should just sign the form to release
    his records. The funny thing is, he already has a copy of his records, that
    is why he was able to release the docs that he thought could benefit
    himself.
    --

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    i get that you are passionate about this, but i still don't understand what
    your objection is to the service records that are plainly listed on his web
    site http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/military_records.html
    lets take this one step at a time... start with the dd214. box 13
    (character of service) says "honorable". what in this document do you find
    objectionable?
     
    RRR_News, Mar 2, 2005
    #45
  6. Timothy Daniels

    Leythos Guest

    several things -

    Page 1
    3M/27D of Active Duty Service - he claimed more.
    Discharge Date type is close but does not completely match rest of doc.
    Line 26 - Only one Award - no medals
    Line 27 - No wounds as a result of action with enemy forces

    Page 2 - record shows Effective date of 1970
    Shows more information that conflicts with other parts of other
    documents on the same site.

    Page 1 - Box 18 - shows terminal date of RESERVE as 72 with 3 months of
    active service (no medals listed)
    Page 2 - Box 18 - shows terminal date of RESERVE as 72 with 3 YEARS of
    active service (and now has medals)

    I will review these documents this week and reply with my "opinion" on
    them and if I've changed my view.
     
    Leythos, Mar 2, 2005
    #46
  7. Timothy Daniels

    Sparky Guest

    What's that mean?
     
    Sparky, Mar 3, 2005
    #47
  8. Timothy Daniels

    Dogface Guest


    And it'll be interesting to see how all this plays out when China attempts
    to take over Taiwan militarily, and then maybe North Korea decides to take
    advantage of it with a move south since they are all starving up there and
    decides to pre-empt with a nuke to Okinawa. Or maybe Pakistan gets taken
    over by Islamic fundamentalists (Musharaf can't dodge those assassination
    attempts forever) and decides it really does want to use those Islamic
    nukes on India.

    All this wonderful foreign outsourcing is dependent on stability. The
    minute it disappears these companies are going get screwed! Then the U.S.
    government will realize how it is also hog tied by its dependence. The last
    page is yet to be written on all this "globalization". The reality is that
    it is still a very nasty world out there. I have $20 that says one of the
    above scenarios will play out within the next 10 years.
     
    Dogface, Mar 3, 2005
    #48
  9. Timothy Daniels

    Leythos Guest

    Actually, China has stated that it will take over the US within 20 years -
    they are very patient.
    That's why IBM started pulling a lot of it back to the US.
     
    Leythos, Mar 3, 2005
    #49
  10. Timothy Daniels

    Sparky Guest

    Like Clinton winning 2 presidential elections in the 90's?
    Right, sure, okay babe, ...
    Anecdotal evidence at best.
    More standard right wing cant from the bowels of Rush & Co.
    Which Bush are you listening to? The one in the White House admits nothing.
    I do not admire people who stand on their beliefs when their beliefs are
    wrong & detrimental to the strategic interests of the US. We're
    certainly no safer now from a terrorist attack than we were 3 1/2 half
    years ago, in spite of the billions spent on "homeland security".
    Why not - with a name like "Bush" you'd think he'd at least be more
    sensitive to women's issues.
    You have ROTC in high school?
    Yada, yada, yada - next you're going to tell us Kerry wrote up his own
    citations and was really on a sound stage in Idaho instead of Vietnam?


    In the interest of killing this thread I will point out that Hitler
    stood for his beliefs and look where that got Germany & the rest of the
    world.
     
    Sparky, Mar 3, 2005
    #50
  11. Timothy Daniels

    Leythos Guest

    Since it doesn't indicate the beliefs of any other person, you could say
    that about yourself even.
     
    Leythos, Mar 3, 2005
    #51
  12. Timothy Daniels

    Leythos Guest

    I clipped the rest because this summarizes your beliefs enough for me. As
    a former military service member, family man, been around the world, teach
    shooting sports to kids groups, and business owner - I can only say that I
    feel safer than when Clinton was in, and that my business has grown during
    the Bush terms.
     
    Leythos, Mar 3, 2005
    #52
  13. Timothy Daniels

    Irene Guest

    Strange. You feel safer when Clinton was in, but the Quick Reaction Forces
    had a chance to take out Bin Laden well before 9/11 and it was Clinton that
    gave the order preventing the action.

    I can only guess that this is one of those cases where what you do not know
    makes you feel safer. >g<
     
    Irene, Mar 3, 2005
    #53
  14.  
    Dave Friedenberg, Mar 3, 2005
    #54
  15. Timothy Daniels

    Leythos Guest

    I specifically said: I can only say that I feel safer than when Clinton
    was in.... Which means I feel safer NOW than when Clinton WAS in office.

    In case you miss the intent of the above - I feel safer with Bush in
    office than I have with any other president during my lifetime.
    I've been around the world, in places where they threw stuff at us for
    being American, in places where they praised us for being American. I've
    been in places I felt safe and places I felt unsafe in groups.

    I left my post below so you could reference it for the part you misread.
     
    Leythos, Mar 3, 2005
    #55
  16. Timothy Daniels

    Leythos Guest

    No need to apologize, people make honest mistakes all the time, and I even
    thought I typo'd it at first :)
     
    Leythos, Mar 3, 2005
    #56
  17. Timothy Daniels

    Irene Guest

    You are absolute correct and I apologize to Leythos.

    Irene

     
    Irene, Mar 3, 2005
    #57
  18. Timothy Daniels

    Irene Guest

    You are correct and in the reply to Dave, I apologized to you.

    Again, I mis-read your post and apologize.
     
    Irene, Mar 3, 2005
    #58
  19. Timothy Daniels

    Dogface Guest

    All the politicians failed to take the threat seriously until it hit where
    it could not be ignored, at home. Nobody was screaming for actions and
    heads when they took out two embassy's killing hundreds (that's right many
    of those were Africans so they didn't really count because they weren't
    Amercians), bombing a warship, bombing the garage at the WTC, etc. They
    knew for YEARS the U.S. and other countries were being infiltrated by
    sleeper groups.

    At least Bush has taken the fight to them like it should have been done
    years ago, BEFORE they had a chance to setup an army right under our noses.
    It's still a nasty world out there. The rules of the jungle apply all too
    many times, kill or be killed. Too many "civilized" people can't grasp the
    reality of the situation. We haven't arrived at Utopia yet!
     
    Dogface, Mar 4, 2005
    #59
  20. Of course, Bush could have read the memo on Osama Bin Laden about him
    planning on hitting the WTC towers and try and do something to prevent it,
    instead of pushing it aside. Of course, the memo did not have the date and
    time of the planned attack. How rude of Osama.


     
    Dan Sgambelluri, Mar 4, 2005
    #60
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