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Dell sued over bait & switch advertising

Discussion in 'Intel' started by YKhan, Feb 24, 2005.

  1. Oops I just dated myself.... AGAIN! Way back, Compaq had a proprietary
    keyboard connector - nothing else fit and there was no adapter - maybe
    thats why people bought more than one??:) I recall a Wyse 386 system we
    got had a RJ-11 for the keyboard connector, just like their TTYs, but at
    least they supplied an adapter with the system.
    So much for "industry standards" - makes DIY even more attractive.
    George Macdonald, Feb 28, 2005
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  2. YKhan

    Hank Oredson Guest

    There are 4 or 5 HankKits made from recycled free
    machines sitting in the next room :)
    Have built dozens.

    Usually spend too much time and money doing so, compared
    to a high end Dell or PowerSpec. Might do it again, since right
    now Dell doesn't have what I want. The high end PowerSpec
    is close, and priced just a tad under what I could do by building
    one myself. Their service is good, couple of my relatives (including
    my 90 year old mother) have them and are very pleased.
    Don't recall every needing to call their support staff, the machines
    "just work". All are XPS systems, newest is an 8200. It's my old
    T550 that needs replacement (grin).

    Have replaced lots of parts in the Dells, always by choice.
    Better vid, bigger disk, more ram, etc. Did lose one hard
    drive and had to replace it, no big deal.

    So I was just curious which brand of already built plug it
    in it works machine you might endorse.


    ... Hank

    Hank Oredson, Feb 28, 2005
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  3. YKhan

    Hank Oredson Guest

    Have not lost MB or PS on a Dell yet, and I'm pretty
    sure they stopped that non-standard PS nonesense

    I'm looking for something more high end, won't find one
    at Wal-Mart. No problem building my own, have built
    dozens over the years, was just curious if there were
    some particular brands folks liked.


    ... Hank

    Hank Oredson, Feb 28, 2005
  4. YKhan

    Tony Hill Guest

    If I had to chose one of the big OEMs for a home system, it would
    probably be a Dell... or an Apple, but I guess they don't really

    Dell is at least as good as anyone else in the tier-one OEM market,
    though when "anyone else" is HPaq, that isn't exactly a glowing
    endorsement. You can usually find Dell systems for fairly decent

    If you're willing to pay extra than you can find some good quality
    systems from some more niche-market builders. Alienware is one that I
    know of who at least use high quality components (I don't have any
    personal experience with them, so I can't say much else about them).
    Might be worth checking out their site.
    Tony Hill, Feb 28, 2005
  5. YKhan

    Tony Hill Guest

    In mentioning a Wyse computer I think you are REALLY dating yourself
    there George! :>

    Now that you mention it though, I do remember seeing some odd-ball
    connectors for keyboards on a variety of computers way back in the day
    (286 and 386 era mainly). Never much dealt with any of those though,
    mainly since I was still in grade school at the time!
    Yup, I wouldn't think of getting an HPaq or a Dell for home use.
    However for business systems where you need to support anything more
    than about 10 machines they start to become REAL attractive. Having a
    single source for all your driver downloads, being able to use the
    same basic procedure for setting up and supporting your systems can
    really help. Not to mention the fact that you can get all your
    replacement parts sent overnight when one goes bad.
    Tony Hill, Feb 28, 2005
  6. According to what we hear in c.s.i.p.h.c they are still doing it. As for
    the "lost" part, the devil is not in the replacing - diagnosing & finding
    it is the real rub; having a standard part which can be swapped in is umm,
    nice. Do you really want some screwdriver jockey from a 3rd party
    maintenance op. monkeying with your system and all its valuable data?
    I advise people to go to a local system builder but they buy Dells
    anyway.<shrug> The only thing I can think is that deciding which
    components they want/need is too much work.
    George Macdonald, Feb 28, 2005
  7. YKhan

    chrisv Guest

    I buy/make a lot of PC's for my job. They are put to fairly heavy use
    in a wide variety of tasks (not normal desktop use). I've always
    spec'ed generic machines and we built them up ourselves. A few months
    ago I needed some XP machines fast, so I ordered a few Dell's.

    At first, they seemed okay, and I started thinking "maybe I'll buy
    more of these pre-built things and save myself some work". However,
    after a few months they started to screw-up, becoming less stable,
    needing reboots, re-installs, etc. The hardware is a cut below the
    generic stuff I buy as well (e.g. Antec cases, Intel-brand 845- and
    865-based motherboards).

    Needless to say, I'm not planning on any more Dell's in the near
    future... It's reinforced my long-held belief that the best PC is one
    you make yourself.
    chrisv, Feb 28, 2005
  8. YKhan

    Hank Oredson Guest

    I've looked at 4 or 5 of the "gamer style" systems builders, and am a bit
    put off by things like plastic panels and blinking lights :)

    Thanks for your comments re Dell.
    Have already ruled out HPaq, Sony, GQ and a few others.


    ... Hank

    Hank Oredson, Feb 28, 2005
  9. YKhan

    Hank Oredson Guest

    Thanks for the comments. Our most recent Dell is from the first
    of the 8200 series, and it has been stable. Have upgraded video
    and hard drive, not much more to change. No experience with
    their newer boxes.


    ... Hank

    Hank Oredson, Feb 28, 2005
  10. YKhan

    Hank Oredson Guest

    Never a problem. I do the work, or my wife does, we are both
    competent with tools and test equipment.
    The local system builders do not build machines as good as the
    ones that I build :) Points are well taken though, thank you.


    ... Hank

    Hank Oredson, Feb 28, 2005
  11. YKhan

    Scott Alfter Guest

    Hash: SHA1

    I've had to replace power supplies in HP equipment, and they use the same
    ATX connector as everybody else. (One of them needed the same tiny power
    supply that eMachines used in some of its boxes, due to space constraints.
    I guess it's a good thing that the power supplies in eMachines boxes were so
    crappy that the aftermarket had to step forward with replacements. :-| )

    / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
    (IIGS( http://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
    \_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

    Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Linux)

    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
    Scott Alfter, Feb 28, 2005
  12. Harrumph - just you wait an' see: 20 years will snap by without you even
    noticing. At least Wyse is still in business, though I've no idea when
    they made their last PC - ours was a 386/16... with a 1MB full length
    memory upgrade card.:)
    If you buy all 10, 20, 40 or whatever at exactly the same time sure but
    even a few months apart or a slightly different model and you *could* need
    different HD diags, different video drivers, different BIOS and even
    different chipset .INFs, etc. etc.. Things move quickly and I see this
    with even the few Thinkpads we have.
    George Macdonald, Feb 28, 2005
  13. I strongly urge people to avoid local system builders (unless they have
    solid recommendations or they are qualified to evaluate the system builder).
    I have heard too many stories and had too many experiences with incompetent
    installation, rushed installation, incompatible parts, substandard parts,
    overpricing, bait and switch, and so on.

    David Schwartz, Mar 1, 2005
  14. YKhan

    daytripper Guest


    Dell Irony Meter

    (yeah - *none* of that ever happens with the Big Guys ;-)
    daytripper, Mar 1, 2005
  15. It's a long while since I had a big OEM system but, back then, in the
    warranty period, self-repair with vendor supplied parts was not an option.
    IOW I had to bite my tongue as some monkey from TRW(IIRC) hacked at our
    system; after he'd gone I had to tighten the mbrd mounting screws, reseat
    the add-in cards, reset the case cover so it fit and uncross the
    cross-threaded screws.:)
    Agreed -- no doubt DIY is best -- but if you can find a decent local guy, I
    believe it'll be a cut above what you can get from large OEMs.
    George Macdonald, Mar 1, 2005
  16. I didn't say to go to the big guys, I said to avoid local system
    builders unless they have solid recommendations or you are qualified to
    evaluate the system builder. Did I mention that local system builders often
    give you a warranty that is utterly worthless and may use parts that don't
    have any warranties at all.

    David Schwartz, Mar 1, 2005
  17. YKhan

    keith Guest

    Yeah, I still remember my first (legal) beer. Oh, wait! You said 20
    years. ;-) Hey! I'm still 34! Hey Tony, catching up yet? ;-)

    I remember the odd-ball connector on the 5150. Who in their right mind
    would use a 5-pin DIN connector? What *were* they thinking? Who would
    have positive edge-triggered interrupts? ...but I digress. ;-)
    Sure. What about those with the hardware setting on the hard disk? The
    PS/2s at least had configuration floppys that could be saved.
    keith, Mar 1, 2005
  18. YKhan

    Joe Pfeiffer Guest

    If you recommend against the little guys, and don't recommend the big
    guys, who is left? Surely you're not suggesting people who aren't
    competent to judge the system builder should build their own?
    Joe Pfeiffer, Mar 1, 2005
  19. Well I wouldn't recommend the Yellow Pages blind pin approach.:)
    George Macdonald, Mar 1, 2005
  20. There are lots of other options.

    For example, you could hire someone to evaluate your needs and hire a
    system builder for you. Ideally, this person would be paid a fixed price, so
    he has no incentive to sell you things you don't need or allow the system
    builder to give you inferior parts.

    There are, of course, also medium-sized companies.

    David Schwartz, Mar 1, 2005
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