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Dell sued over bait & switch advertising

Discussion in 'Intel' started by YKhan, Feb 24, 2005.

  1. YKhan

    Tony Hill Guest

    While Dell, HPaq and the like aren't exactly top-notch quality, I've
    seen WAY worse sketchiness from the small local vendors. A *GOOD*
    small local vendor can set you up with a very good PC, but there are
    plenty of REALLY shady characters running PC shops and it's often hard
    to pick out the good from the bad, particularly for those who don't
    already know exactly what they're after.

    With Dell you just get fairly consistently average setups with an
    average amount of problems. They're definitely not using
    top-of-the-line parts by any stretch, but at least they aren't using
    some PC Chips motherboard or the like, and you know that they have at
    least booted a system with your exact configuration once or twice in a
    lab before sending it. The same is often not true for some of the
    small-time local guys.
    Tony Hill, Mar 2, 2005
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  2. YKhan

    Tony Hill Guest

    That's one of the reasons why you stick with the commercial systems
    and not the consumer-grade crap. For example, HP only JUST
    discontinued their d530 models, nearly 2 years after they were first
    released. In fact, I think you can still buy them, though they're no
    longer producing new ones. These systems used the exact same
    motherboard with integrated video, sound and NIC drivers, nearly 2
    years after they were first introduced. If you buy a new dc7100
    system today you will still be able to buy more a year from now with
    the exact same config.

    Same goes for Dell and their Optiplex line. Yes you pay a bit more
    money for these systems, but they will tend to save on support costs
    in the long run, especially for larger businesses. Of course, there
    are also MANY other reasons to stick with the commercial-grade
    systems, even if the quality of performance of these systems might not
    differ much from the consumer stuff. If nothing else you at least
    tend to get support that's been outsourced up here to the Great White
    North instead of support that's been outsourced to India or the
    Tony Hill, Mar 2, 2005
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  3. YKhan

    Tony Hill Guest

    Nope, I'm still a teenager by you're way of counting... <shudder> I
    REALLY don't like you're way of counting... It might have been fun to
    be a teenager at one time, but definitely not anymore!
    Ugg, don't even get me started about the early Compaq Deskpro systems
    and their BIOS-on-hard-disk. If you want a REAL pain in the ass, that
    was it!
    Tony Hill, Mar 2, 2005
  4. YKhan

    keith Guest

    Ok, you haven't caught up yet but trsut me, you'll see things differently
    in a few short years. ;-)
    That was exactly what I was referring to. ...and people thought the
    Microchannel was a PITA. Of course Microchannnel was designed for
    business use (roll-outs by the thousands and where a couple of
    transistors didn't matter), but the alternatives were *far* worse.
    keith, Mar 3, 2005
  5. YKhan

    keith Guest

    Then why change now?
    Then why...
    I've haven't found a system I wanted that I couldn't buy cheaper for
    close to a dozen years. Yes, I tend to be pickey with some peripherals.
    Alrighty then. YOu don't know what crap Dell service (and AFAIK, all the
    others) has become. I believe it was GeorgeM a while ago recanting his
    dealings with Dell's Indian connection on "desktop-class" systems.
    Power supplies? Motherboards?
    For desktops? Were I rich or twenty years younger, an Apple G5. But
    that's not what you meant, I trust. ;-) In fact I went with the Opteron
    because it was (far) cheaper.

    Laptops, nothing but a ThinkPad (or maybe PowerBook in a while).
    keith, Mar 3, 2005
  6. YKhan

    keith Guest

    Ok? Who?!
    keith, Mar 3, 2005
  7. YKhan

    Hank Oredson Guest

    Time, cost.
    Doesn't matter if I screw up a junker, they are free.
    Doesn't matter how long it takes to get one fixed if needed.
    Time, cost, warranty.
    Doesn't matter if the junker breaks, just toss it and use another.
    Never had one go bad.
    Have had bad PS on home brew machines, bad out of the box.
    Ditto motherboards, bad out of the box.
    x86 is a requirement, so no Apples.

    ... Hank

    Hank Oredson, Mar 3, 2005
  8. Grab any copy of any computer magazine and you will see dozens of ads
    for computer systems made and sold by medium-sized companies.

    David Schwartz, Mar 3, 2005
  9. A few include MainPC, Globus, pcboost, American CompuTech, Portatech,
    USA-PCCITY, United Micro, CableMart, and MILEGROUP. Note that these are not
    endorsements. Some of these actually resell complete systems )sometimes with
    customizations on things like memory, video card, hard drive, and so on)
    made other companies such as Asus, Comet, Jungle, X Technology, and MGE.

    David Schwartz, Mar 3, 2005
  10. YKhan

    Tony Hill Guest

    Ask me again in another 5 years and I might agree, but not just yet!
    The worst part about the Deskpro's is that they continued to use this
    WELL after Microchannel had come and gone. In fact, it wasn't until
    the Deskpro EN line (PII systems, first released in '97 or '98 I
    think) that Compaq finally abandoned this crazy scheme.

    The stupidest part about the whole thing was that it wasn't even the
    BIOS data itself that was on the hard disk, that was still in firmware
    on the motherboard. However the ONLY way to access it was using some
    graphical program that either had to be a partition on a hard disk or
    a set of 3 boot up floppies (which NEVER seemed to work right for me).
    All just so that they could get a Windows 3.1-ish GUI frontend to the
    BIOS. Compaq definitely deserved some smacking upside the head for
    that whole ordeal, though fortunately it looks like the engineers won
    out over the marketing-droids for the next round, as the Deskpro EN
    systems were quite possibly the best build x86 desktops ever made.
    Tony Hill, Mar 3, 2005
  11. No - I haven't had any direct dealings with Dell for years. I may have
    mentioned the travails of other folks with that though.
    George Macdonald, Mar 4, 2005
  12. YKhan

    keith Guest

    Ok, but I wouldn't call *any* medium-sized. My first Pentium system was
    a Quantex, by your definition a "medium-sized" builder. It was junk, as
    was the support and everything else. They're no longer (surprise,
    surprise). The fact is that this business doesn't allow for
    "medium-sized". You're either big, and can leverage prices, or small and
    can leverage service. There isn't anything inbetween.

    We'll disagree.
    keith, Mar 7, 2005
  13. I don't understand, are you saying the medium-sized companies don't
    exist or that you don't recommend them? If the former, we definitely
    disagree. If the latter, I never recommend them. I simply said they're an
    alternative to the largest and the smallest companies.

    David Schwartz, Mar 7, 2005
  14. YKhan

    keith Guest

    Actually, I'm saying *both*. There are some who *pretend* to be large
    enough to be well enough funded to be considered mid-sized, but I wouldn't
    go there either. The market just doesn't allow anyone in the middle.
    keith, Mar 7, 2005
  15. David Schwartz, Mar 7, 2005
  16. YKhan

    keith Guest

    keith, Mar 7, 2005
  17. Ahh. I thought you would complain these were all too small. Here are
    some smaller companies.

    Remember the context -- I was suggesting these as an alternative to
    Compaq/HP/Dell or local system builders. These are certainly neither of




    Note: These are *not* recommendations.

    David Schwartz, Mar 7, 2005
  18. YKhan

    daytripper Guest

    Ya know, your opinion in this matter might carry more than a mote of
    significance if you didn't keep totally discounting what you propose.

    Crap or get off the pot: we want names!

    daytripper, Mar 7, 2005
  19. I can only win one argument at a time. The argument I'm currently in is
    over whether the only choices for buying systems are large vendors like HP,
    Compaq, and Dell, or local system builders. My point is that there's a whole
    world of choices out there.

    Someone saying "don't use local system builders" isn't saying "buy from
    Dell". Someone saying "don't buy from Dell" isn't saying "buy from local
    system builders". There's a lot of choices out there.

    I have major issues with local system builders. They are often
    incompetent (nearly all of my assembly horror stories come from local
    system builders or incompetent do-it-yourselfers, none come from large
    companies, and only one came from a company of any significant size). They
    sometimes use sub-standard or incompatible parts. They usually offer a
    meaningless warranty and don't honor it anyway.

    Compared to this, the issues with the big boys are actually minor. At
    least they'll still be in business, they honor their warranties, and their
    assemblers are competent. Personally, I have no problem recommending any of
    these large companies to someone who is not qualified to specify and
    assemble their own machine.

    David Schwartz, Mar 7, 2005
  20. YKhan

    Hank Oredson Guest

    Yes yes we all know this.

    The thread is about which of those choices would be good ones,
    and why they would be good ones, and some details of YOUR
    experiences with the various vendors.

    So share already. Did you like your eMachine?
    What choices have you made?
    Which ones? What problems?
    Which "big boys" did you buy from?
    How was the support?
    What issues did you encounter?
    Was this recently (12 months) or long ago?
    Give us some actual experience.


    ... Hank

    Hank Oredson, Mar 8, 2005
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