Does Dell make its own motherboards?

Discussion in 'Gigabyte' started by Lem, Jan 3, 2005.

  1. Lem

    jas0n Guest

    there are out of warranty spares available for compaq/hp's - you just
    need to know the suppliers ... its been a while since ive used them so I
    cant recall but there are a few of them ... you may balk at the price
    but compared to the complete replacement you say its still better to buy
    the part in a lot of circumstances.
     
    jas0n, Jan 5, 2005
    #81
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  2. Lem

    Tx2 Guest

    I am the latter, and have lost sales thru total honesty. I've been
    thanked for that honesty, but have made the customer far more aware of
    what they are doing. Invariably, i get a call some while later asking
    for my help with matters further down the line, and my relationship with
    that customer then grows based on the foundation of trust I laid down
    from the start.
    Sorry, but that reeks of pomposity, and I find it quite arrogant.
    1. I didn't say it was always this way, i said in my experience it had
    been. However, others here in this group have echoed doubts about Dell
    UK

    2. Large vendors rarely are interested in 'small fry' like me. You have
    clout, you shift 1.3 million units a year.

    3. I didn't say it was always the proper solution. For the clients i
    advise, Dell has not been the preferred solution, and given i went thru
    hell with one client recently when he was trying to buy a Dell, I'm not
    prepared to damage my reputation further by recommending a vendor from
    whom I have had nothing but bad experience.

    My background is working for one of the largest companies in the world
    heading a European Management Helpdesk. I have dealt with the biggest of
    the big in corporate terms .... don't tell me I have limited experience
    in IT Solutions. http://www.geitsolutions.com/
    Then you haven't tried to service a Dell desktop in the UK.
    Or tried to attach front connecting USB leads to a Hewlett Packard
    machine built into a standard case then. I have.
    Ever heard of PC World here in the UK? The more you type, the more it
    seems you are unclear as to how things run over here.
    Eh? I'm about to upgrade a homebuilt PC for one of my customers next
    week. A new graphics card to support Direct X 9. the system is the best
    part of 2 years old.
    She wasn't buying a gamer system. She was buying a computer. The
    salesman never warned her that the thing is completely useless so far as
    upgrades or standard repairs are concerned.
    My PC is nearly 2 years old. I didn't intend playing games when I got
    it. It was a business machine. I play Call of Duty on it now, in my
    spare time, having upgraded the AGP card to accommodate such. Call it my
    executive toy.
    You've never seen a Le Div@ have you ....
    It's late here in the UK, i'll digest that little lot later....

    But, on first read, it seems to be similar to some of what I've already
    said? Don't buy Dell on a budget, get a more versatile custom built and
    upgradeable solution from the outset but at greater cost. In the long
    run you'll yada yada....

    Yep, that is what I was saying.
    If you are shifting 1.3 million units a year, i suspect you don't place
    much emphasis on supplying custom builds. You can shift the emphasis on
    supporting those machines right back to where they came from. Good
    business, but not at all suited to my way of trading.
    when ...
    I haven't said you are wrong. I disagree with you telling me what is
    best for my business, and my clients, but you have your viewpoint, i
    have mine. Your arrogance is really quite overpowering, but, c'est la
    vie. I don't agree with fuel guzzling Hummers, but it's your country and
    I'm not going to tell you what you can and can't drive on the road.

    My experience of Dell UK has been nothing but awful, so i choose not to
    use them. You seem to not realise that.

    I can, and do, provide a superior service to my customers over and above
    what Dell would provide, they tell me so. Those who've had Dell etc had
    said they wished they'd "found" me ages ago. I can only speak as I find.
    Likewise ...
     
    Tx2, Jan 5, 2005
    #82
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  3. Lem

    Tx2 Guest

    I never said otherwise. i would never recommend a larger corporate
    company do anything less.
    Compaq were always the best company to deal with when I was in corporate
    IT.
     
    Tx2, Jan 5, 2005
    #83
  4. Lem

    Tx2 Guest

    Why ... to prove what price I could do it for? What's the point?

    I've already said I couldn't beat Dell. Not sure what it would achieve
    to be honest. Ammunition for someone to take the piss? Sorry chum, I'm
    not into playing silly games on usenet for the entertainment of others.

    I've spent some time replying, yes, hardly an hour. It might have been,
    if i was trying to be cocky and clever, but i've simply replied with a)
    my experience, and b) spoken as i've found. If you don't agree with it,
    there's not an awful lot I can do to change it.
     
    Tx2, Jan 5, 2005
    #84
  5. Lem

    Tx2 Guest

    [...]
    Yes, Partsurfer is a good source for finding out what you need, and then
    companies like Logitech will source it, but then you need to convince
    the customer to pay the price. You forget, we (at least I am) are
    talking small business / domestic user, not corporate budgets.
    What complete replacement? I said swapping some of the components into a
    standard case was an option - did I type that a complete replacement was
    as well?
     
    Tx2, Jan 5, 2005
    #85
  6. Lem

    Leythos Guest

    But your after sales support has a REAL cost, it's not free, at least
    not if you plan on being a sole business owner for long. The after sale
    follow-ups and support cost real money for any business, even yours, at
    least if you place any value on your time.

    So, while you (and I) give very personalized service to clients, I
    happen to understand a little more about the hidden costs and the value
    of a warranty and 24/7/365 support (even if it's not the greatest).
     
    Leythos, Jan 5, 2005
    #86
  7. Lem

    Tx2 Guest

    Sorry, not Logitech - Logicom
     
    Tx2, Jan 5, 2005
    #87
  8. Lem

    Leythos Guest

    To clarify, it was 1.3 milling in sales, not units. I hope we never do
    1.3 million units.

    As for custom builds, I strongly encourage them and love the ASUS PC-DL
    Deluxe motherboard. I've got about 30 of them running Dual Xeon CPU's
    and 6 drive IDE RAID-5 arrays at 1.3TB of space with a RAID-1 250GB
    space and 4GB of RAM - these run as production MS SQL servers and
    production web servers in our office. The nice thing about the IDE RAID-
    5 and RAID-1 units are they are on-line hot swappable. I've done the
    same setups for several public utility companies to act as on-line
    storage arrays or for on-line backup servers.

    As for our office, I have a BUNCH of servers and workstations and
    laptops. There is only 1 name brand laptop (a Toshiba 17" unit) and one
    server (A ML350 dual P3/1ghz system) in the place. All our units are
    hand built and selected from the best parts available at the time.
    Selecting the parts takes hours of research each couple months as vendor
    lots change and their reliability/compatibility changes the same.

    When I was contacted to design an off-shore (India) development center I
    spec'd the ASUS PC-DL Deluxe server board for all servers and Dell's for
    workstations (the 650 series, dual SCSI drives....). The servers were a
    fraction of the cost that a Dell would have been, but the workstations
    needed to have the large support contract - it's one thing to have
    internal support for a group of servers, but parts warranties for
    hundreds of workstations is mandatory today. I did a small development
    center on the other side of the country, 4 Dual Xeon servers (also ASUS)
    and 6 workstations - they wanted Dell workstations, but loved the custom
    servers, not one fault in more than a year on the Dells or the Servers.

    I'm not doubting your experience with Dell, I've seen it before, but I'm
    having problems with your cost/value side of the equation.

    Anyway, have a good evening.
     
    Leythos, Jan 6, 2005
    #88
  9. Lem

    Tx2 Guest

    All built into the original pricing, or recouped from chargeable calls.
    I place an emphasis on making money too you know.
    Well, i don't believe you do. I believe you think you know more about my
    business model than me, but .... well, let's leave it there shall we.

    </eot>
     
    Tx2, Jan 6, 2005
    #89
  10. That would have to be either factored into the original price or the
    supoprt warranty. Much in the same way as shops do for items such as
    TVs e.t.c.
     
    Gama Chameleon, Jan 6, 2005
    #90
  11. One also very important point is that unlike quite a few mom and pop
    outfits, they are not going to go out of business the following year
    either due to not being financially viable or doing the old close down
    and open under a new name loop hole (leaving you in the lurch).

    Round here I've seem small operations come and go on a yearly basis.
     
    Gama Chameleon, Jan 6, 2005
    #91
  12. Lem

    Mercury Guest

    So big names are immune to this then?
    There are less of them. Most have crashed / been taken over / merged out of
    existence.

    Once there was the BUNCH. Burrows, Univac, NCR, Honeywell. Then IBM...
    I haven't heard of Facom or Amdahl for yonks...
    Oh, don't forget DEC, Compaq, Gateway made a big flop - is it still going?
    Micron... Some names are different in other countries.

    It depends on what you want, what you need, how much you are willing to pay,
    where you are, service level you require, *toungue in cheek* how ignorant
    you are, and what is available.
     
    Mercury, Jan 6, 2005
    #92
  13. Lem

    GB Guest

    I'm sorry that this has all got rather personal. You made a sweeping
    generalisation - that anyone buying Dell is an idiot - and not surprisingly
    all the people who have bought Dell jumped down your throat. :)

    There are clearly people who will benefit from your sort of hands-on support
    and custom-built PCs. Reasonably technically-minded people, such as the
    people on these NGs, are not your sort of customer though.

    There is certainly an advantage in using standard parts, and I wish the
    likes of Dell would do that. This is the main drawback of Dell (or HP/Compaq
    for that matter).

    There are significant savings in buying from Dell rather than you. (You
    won't give any figures, but the PC I spec'd out cost 185 Pounds including
    VAT and delivery from Dell recently, and I expect you would quite reasonably
    want to charge over 300 Pounds.)

    If I have to build up the systems myself, I would want to factor in my own
    time plus the hassle of dealing with online component suppliers, so Dell
    still works out much cheaper up-front.

    The big snag (as you have pointed out frequently) is if something goes wrong
    with one of the proprietary components, such as the PSU. That may mean
    buying a new case, and possibly even a new mobo, as well as the new psu. Or
    it may mean biting the bullet and paying Dell a silly price for their
    replacement psu. Even so, there is probably enough saving in the original
    purchase price to cover this. These PCs are pretty reliable in any case, so
    it is quite likely not to be a problem.

    I hope you now understand why it is a perfectly sensible choice for some
    (non-idiotic) people to buy Dell.

    Geoff
     
    GB, Jan 6, 2005
    #93
  14. Lem

    GB Guest

    That is certainly my understanding, but I have never actually checked
    myself. The wires are in a different order. Out of interest, how difficult
    would it be to disassemble the ATX connector of a standard PSU and put the
    wires into the order required by Dell?

    I've got a cheapo PSU here that I've been fiddling with. I can't get the
    little connector pins out of the ATX connector block. Is there a knack to
    this, or are they intended to stay in forever?

    Do you remember how many of the wires are different? My understanding was
    that it was just a couple of wires that were swapped over. If it's only two,
    I guess that it would be possible to cut the wires and splice them back
    together in the right order.

    Geoff
     
    GB, Jan 6, 2005
    #94
  15. Lem

    Tx2 Guest

    , a.k.a Gama Chameleon
    says...
    Of course, again, you forget that a self-build PC is usually built from
    off-the-shelf parts, and as such is very easily maintained.

    Tiny were a PC manufacturer who went bust and left a lot of people in
    the lurch due to the use of proprietary parts.

    Any small time independent who goes out of business isn't going to have
    the same impact on a business *if* they supplied 100% compliant ATX
    systems.
    As no doubt you have builders, decorators and a myriad of other business
    types. Going out of business isn't exclusive to IT Service companies,
    nor does it exclude Dell.
     
    Tx2, Jan 6, 2005
    #95
  16. Lem

    Tx2 Guest

    Firstly, i don't recall every calling anyone who buys Dell an "idiot",
    so please quote me correctly.

    Secondly, i have, frequently, said that it is a case of each to their
    own, but that I, personally, would not recommend Dell to my customers on
    the basis of the experiences i have had.

    In fact, on one of my posts i clearly wrote : "I'm not saying don't buy
    Dell - I simply believe it to be a false economy to do so based on what
    i've read here thus far"

    My opinion hasn't changed that much since then.

    I think you need to re-read what i have written, and then apologise for
    suggesting I've made "sweeping statements"... and insulted people.

    I have spoken as i find, factual, and from personal experience - and
    then justified it.
     
    Tx2, Jan 6, 2005
    #96
  17. Lem

    GB Guest

    Sorry, you are right - it was the poster before you, someone calling himself
    Venom. :)

    Sorry about mixing you up with Venom.
     
    GB, Jan 6, 2005
    #97
  18. Lem

    Mercury Guest

    I worked on a 386 sx (?) for a while. Had a 8085 running CPM 1 in about 1981
    with a whopping 5mb HDD and 64 kb ram. But then the mainframe I worked on
    (which was huge) had 16mb ram, 2 processors, paper tape, punched cards, 14
    tape decks, 28 HDD's (biggest was 600MB), etc...
     
    Mercury, Jan 6, 2005
    #98
  19. Lem

    Leythos Guest

    And you could get support for those companies for years after they
    merged or closed. I know for a fact that Burrows (which merged with
    Sperry to become Unisys - which my wife worked for during my time time
    in the Navy) provided support via Unisys after the merger. The same for
    NCR and Homeywell... IBM is still around. DEC was still providing
    support years after, same with Compaq, Gateway, and Micron. Micron,
    while not producing PC's under their name any more still has support
    under the new company....
     
    Leythos, Jan 6, 2005
    #99
  20. Lem

    Leythos Guest

    And neither are the majority of the parts in most of the large vendor
    systems. Most of the parts are the same off-the-shelf parts you would
    get anywhere. Vaio, E-Machines, Dell, Compaq, HP, etc... The only hard
    thing about getting parts on those it getting a power-supply, their
    cases support standard hard-drives, cd-rom drives, even standard
    floppies.
    But the point was the small business user or the home user - so a small
    shop going out of business is going to have an impact on 100% of the
    customers that purchased from them that are looking for Warranty
    replacement of that compliant ATX power supply.
     
    Leythos, Jan 6, 2005
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