Does Lion need more resources than SL?

Discussion in 'Apple' started by Tim Streater, Jan 10, 2012.

  1. Tim Streater

    Tim Streater Guest

    I'm running Lion on a 2gig early-2009 1.8GHz Mini. ISTM that SL was a
    lot snappier than Lion feels - and Safari 5.0.x likewise compared to
    5.1.x (to say nothing of the bugs). Sometimes these days Safari goes off
    and executes God knows what for 30 secs before becoming responsive again
    - it's most irritating. I wonder if it's garbage-collecting, I am giving
    it a bit of a thrashing.

    To some extent this may be moot as I'm about to replace the Mini with a
    mid-2011 2.3GHz model, with 8gig RAM and an SSD as system disk. but all
    the same I wondered if others felt that Lion is bloatier?
     
    Tim Streater, Jan 10, 2012
    #1
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  2. Yes, definitely. Uses more RAM at boot time, has more stuff running in
    the backgrond, as well as having a min 2gig per spec, rather than SL's
    1gig. It's back down to Leopard speeds again. Hopefully they'll do a
    Mountain Lion release!

    OTOH, since we can wang in so much RAM for so little cash, it doesn't
    matter much except to folks with the old shape Airs. Sigh.

    Cheers - Jaimie
     
    Jaimie Vandenbergh, Jan 10, 2012
    #2
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  3. It does consume a lot more resources and it feels slower.

    The biggest culprit that I have found is autosave in Apple's
    applications. It writes files to disk on every mouse click, scroll, and
    keypress. Not only does that consume resources, but it causes Apple
    apps to lag badly when the disk is busy. It's probably why Lion always
    feels slower.

    Virtual memory and filesystem caching appear to have performance
    problems. I give PostgreSQL 2GB of shared memory on an 8GB Core i7
    laptop and start building indexes. Virtual memory thrashes so badly
    that no Apple or Java applications are usable. If I do the same thing
    in a Linux VM on the same laptop, Linux apps run fine and there's no
    virtual memory thrashing. My older Core i7 laptop with 8GB ran
    PostgreSQL, Eclipse, and Safari fine together. I don't know exactly
    what's wrong, but Lion's kernel is eating over 1GB of 'wired' RAM and
    idle processes seem to consume more active RAM even when demand is high.
     
    Kevin McMurtrie, Jan 11, 2012
    #3
  4. Tim Streater

    Calum Guest

    Hmm, it's not supposed to... autosave is only supposed to kick in
    whenever you stop interacting with the app for a second or two.
     
    Calum, Jan 14, 2012
    #4
  5. Maybe Kevin types really slowly!
     
    Doug Anderson, Jan 15, 2012
    #5
  6. Don't ask the Internet. Check for yourself by running
    sudo fs_usage
    in Terminal.app to see all filesystem I/O.
     
    Kevin McMurtrie, Jan 15, 2012
    #6
  7. That's a nice trick - thank you for mentioning it.

    Cheers - Jaimie
     
    Jaimie Vandenbergh, Jan 15, 2012
    #7
  8. Tim Streater

    Alan Baker Guest

    Get this:

    <http://osxbook.com/software/fslogger/>

    It is designed to use the same system that Mac OS X uses internally to
    check for information being written to disk (which the OS uses to know
    when it needs to update Spotlight data about a file).

    --
    Alan Baker
    Vancouver, British Columbia
    "If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
    to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
    sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
     
    Alan Baker, Jan 15, 2012
    #8
  9. I understand. Now, I only have the small Mini but it's only for writing.
    And, I don't have it anymore: my wife doesn't want to use the old PC.

    So, since I plan to edit my trips video, I was planning to buy a Mac
    Pro. You know, larger processor, 16GB ram and so on. They're really
    cheap. But, sometimes around Christmas, somebody here had a problem with
    the power and everybody was laughing at him for having to pay hundreds
    of dollars to get it fixed.

    I do understand those computers are really cheap at purchase time but I
    have no time to lose to fix it. Are those Macs worth buying? The problem
    with the iMac is that the screen is only 27". I'm thinking more about a
    60" LG TV, you know, those really thin monitor. I would put it in the
    living room for editing so I can get a real impression of what it will
    look like when presented.

    What do you think?
     
    Jean-Paul Aumais, Feb 4, 2012
    #9
  10. [snip]
    Any bit of machinery can break. Applecare gives you three years cover.

    And iMacs can connect to external monitors via the Thunderbolt port.

    If you want to know about comparative reliablity of the current line up
    of Macs, I don't know myself but I expect you can get an idea by
    searching on-line.

    As for `is a Mac Pro worth it?' - well, if you want to do video editing,
    the extra CPU and RAM should prove its worth compared to an iMac.

    Rowland.
     
    Rowland McDonnell, Feb 4, 2012
    #10
  11. Yes, but those series of messages I remember talked about hundreds of
    dollars to replace the power supply and having to bring this huge box to
    the store and possibly leaving it there if they don't have the supply in
    store. This last point, I don't like.
    But that's not when computers break. I would like to have a 3-7 years
    guarantee.
    iMacs are not an option. I want a really large monitor. At least 60".
     
    Jean-Paul Aumais, Feb 5, 2012
    #11
  12. Tim Streater

    dorayme Guest

    When the cricket is not on at the Melbourne or Sydney cricket ground,
    you might be able to hire the ground and use the big screens there,
    plug them into your Macbook or mini or pro and Bob could be your uncle.
     
    dorayme, Feb 5, 2012
    #12
  13. If the Mac in question has Applecare cover, then they'll repair it for
    free. If not, it costs. Repairs take finite time. Not all parts can
    be kept in stock.

    Apple UK used to (might still do) be able arrange to have your (desktop)
    Mac picked up, taken for repairs, and returned all under Applecare if
    that's what you wanted - but of course that just adds time.

    If you don't like the way reality is in this regard, the only way to
    guard against it is to either buy two machines so you've got a backup,
    or get yourself some sort of insurance cover to give you the sort of
    coverage you feel you need.

    It does sound like you're expecting a top-quality professional computer
    maintenance contract to be supplied for having bought a consumer PC at
    the consumer PC price. You won't get it from Apple or any other
    supplier.

    If you want a top quality professional computer maintenance contract to
    give you same-day on-site repairs or a replacement machine in case yours
    can't be fixed on the spot, such things are available but you have to
    pay a lot more than just the normal consumer purchase price of the PC,
    whatever the source of the PC.

    And do make sure you've got a running backup being kept at all times...
    The 4G5 I had before this iMac needed several repairs inside its three
    years of Applecare, and finally packed up unrepairable just outside
    Applecare, whereupon Apple replaced it for free with this Intel iMac.

    This iMac has needed two repairs so far (HDD died, and the optical drive
    was scratching discs so needed replacing). It's since come down with a
    graphics card fault, so it's going in for repairs again as soon as we
    get the new Macbook sorted out. It's not yet two years old IIRC.

    The 2G4 we had before the 4G5 needed a few repairs inside Applecare, and
    broke down not long after it expired.

    And the 400MHz G4 we had before that didn't last long either.

    Had I known about the `it's got to last a decent time' UK consumer law
    protection at the time, I'd've hassled Apple over those last two
    machines I mentioned.
    Well, UK consumer law does give you some comeback if the machine doesn't
    last about that long.

    Since you mention dollars, I'd guess you're not in the UK so can only
    suggest getting some sort of insurance cover.

    If you can find any PC seller which will give you a 3-7 year guarantee
    as part of a consumer deal, I'd love to hear about it.

    It strikes me that seven years is longer than the typical PC lasts in
    professional use - you won't find any seven year old PCs being used for
    professional video editing, I wouldn't have thought.
    Umm. Hard to see what you're questioning there.

    iMacs are not limited to displaying only on their built-in monitors.

    iMacs can drive external monitors.

    They have a port to do this, called the Thunderbolt port which AIUI
    works as a mini Displayport (as well as a super-fast data connection).
    Hmm - <http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html>

    Looks like you're right:

    "Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display
    and up to a 30-inch display (2560 by 1600 pixels) on an external
    display"

    Still, a 30" display at 2560 by 1600 seems pretty big to me.

    Rowland.
     
    Rowland McDonnell, Feb 5, 2012
    #13
  14. The problem is not the cost, it's the time. I can change a power supply,
    a disk, memory and so on. I just don't want to be told by teh Apple
    Store that they won't provide a power supply unless I bring my computer
    in like Mr Mezei was told.

    Finally, I might buy a PC for editing. The choice for hardware and
    software is wider. My wife will keep «her» Mini.

    Hey, thanks for answer but I just figured out I don't have time to write
    on newsgroups :( This will be my last set of answers.
     
    Jean-Paul Aumais, Feb 6, 2012
    #14
  15. You don't understand. Often, I'll show my videos to 50 to 60 people,
    family, friends, employees, stockholders. So I might as well use the
    same screen for editing. Your living room and mine must not be the same
    size.
     
    Jean-Paul Aumais, Feb 6, 2012
    #15
  16. Tim Streater

    dorayme Guest

    Sure, sure... that's what all drug addicts say often!

    Bets anyone?
     
    dorayme, Feb 6, 2012
    #16
  17. Tim Streater

    George Kerby Guest

    It will return, like a troublesome mold, only with a different sock.
     
    George Kerby, Feb 6, 2012
    #17
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