ECS MCP61M-M3(1.0A) shutting down

Discussion in 'ECS' started by Dennis, Aug 2, 2012.

  1. Dennis

    Dennis Guest

    I have a computer with the ECS MCP61M-M3(1.0A)Motherboard and an
    AMD Phenom II X2 550 3.1Ghz Black Edition processor running Windows
    XP Pro. This was built last November but recently started shutting
    down at any time. It goes through the whole boot sequence when the
    computer is turned back on. It will shut down while idle or while in
    use. I added a case fan in case it was heat related but that did not
    help.
    Any help greatly appreciated...
     
    Dennis, Aug 2, 2012
    #1
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  2. Dennis

    Paul Guest

    Dennis wrote:
    > I have a computer with the ECS MCP61M-M3(1.0A)Motherboard and an
    > AMD Phenom II X2 550 3.1Ghz Black Edition processor running Windows
    > XP Pro. This was built last November but recently started shutting
    > down at any time. It goes through the whole boot sequence when the
    > computer is turned back on. It will shut down while idle or while in
    > use. I added a case fan in case it was heat related but that did not
    > help.
    > Any help greatly appreciated...


    http://www.ecsusa.com/ECSWebSite/Pr...?DetailID=1006&CategoryID=1&MenuID=19&LanID=0

    The CPU support table, shows processors up to 95W. The board has
    a three phase regulator. I don't think your processor is too
    much for it, unless it was overclocked a whole lot (driving power
    over the 95W level). And you say it happens at idle. Is the
    CPU VCore voltage consistent with operation of that processor ?
    The BIOS could set the voltage too high, as an example of
    a BIOS bug type.

    It sounds like THERMTRIP, because THERMTRIP (a signal from the processor),
    is used to turn off the PS_ON# signal sent to the power supply.

    If VCore overcurrent protection was tripped, all the fans might
    continue to run, but there'd be no CPU to POST, and a black screen.
    To clear such a fault, might require turning off power at the back
    of the computer.

    I suppose it could be something related to the single chipset heatsink,
    like it had come loose, but that would be more likely to cause it
    to crash than to switch off. The only thing I know of, more or
    less guaranteed because it's free in terms of protection, is THERMTRIP.
    Everything else is optional, and could cost a few cents more for
    components on the motherboard.

    You could remove the CPU from its socket and re-seat it. In case
    there is a bad contact in the socket or something. Then apply fresh
    thermal paste and bolt the cooler back on. In some cases, AMD
    aftermarket heatsinks, have been known to break off the plastic tab
    on the socket retention, which causes the heatsink to fit loosely,
    and perhaps even at idle the temperature of the CPU could end up too
    high (because the cooler is no longer making good contact with the CPU).
    Use something like Speedfan to monitor the temperature and see what it is,
    just before shutdown.

    http://www.almico.com/speedfan446.exe

    http://4sysops.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/SpeedFanWindowsXP4_thumb.png

    Paul
     
    Paul, Aug 2, 2012
    #2
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  3. Dennis

    Dennis Guest

    On 8/2/2012 6:56 AM, Paul wrote:
    > Dennis wrote:
    >> I have a computer with the ECS MCP61M-M3(1.0A)Motherboard and an
    >> AMD Phenom II X2 550 3.1Ghz Black Edition processor running Windows
    >> XP Pro. This was built last November but recently started shutting
    >> down at any time. It goes through the whole boot sequence when the
    >> computer is turned back on. It will shut down while idle or while in
    >> use. I added a case fan in case it was heat related but that did not
    >> help.
    >> Any help greatly appreciated...

    >
    > http://www.ecsusa.com/ECSWebSite/Pr...?DetailID=1006&CategoryID=1&MenuID=19&LanID=0
    >
    >
    > The CPU support table, shows processors up to 95W. The board has
    > a three phase regulator. I don't think your processor is too
    > much for it, unless it was overclocked a whole lot (driving power
    > over the 95W level). And you say it happens at idle. Is the
    > CPU VCore voltage consistent with operation of that processor ?
    > The BIOS could set the voltage too high, as an example of
    > a BIOS bug type.
    >
    > It sounds like THERMTRIP, because THERMTRIP (a signal from the processor),
    > is used to turn off the PS_ON# signal sent to the power supply.
    >
    > If VCore overcurrent protection was tripped, all the fans might
    > continue to run, but there'd be no CPU to POST, and a black screen.
    > To clear such a fault, might require turning off power at the back
    > of the computer.
    >
    > I suppose it could be something related to the single chipset heatsink,
    > like it had come loose, but that would be more likely to cause it
    > to crash than to switch off. The only thing I know of, more or
    > less guaranteed because it's free in terms of protection, is THERMTRIP.
    > Everything else is optional, and could cost a few cents more for
    > components on the motherboard.
    >
    > You could remove the CPU from its socket and re-seat it. In case
    > there is a bad contact in the socket or something. Then apply fresh
    > thermal paste and bolt the cooler back on. In some cases, AMD
    > aftermarket heatsinks, have been known to break off the plastic tab
    > on the socket retention, which causes the heatsink to fit loosely,
    > and perhaps even at idle the temperature of the CPU could end up too
    > high (because the cooler is no longer making good contact with the CPU).
    > Use something like Speedfan to monitor the temperature and see what it is,
    > just before shutdown.
    >
    > http://www.almico.com/speedfan446.exe
    >
    > http://4sysops.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/SpeedFanWindowsXP4_thumb.png
    >
    > Paul


    The CPU fan never runs over 1200 RPM and as low as 500 RPM at times.
    The fan spins free. So, is it the fan or is it not being told to run
    faster by the motherboard?
     
    Dennis, Aug 4, 2012
    #3
  4. Dennis

    Paul Guest

    Dennis wrote:
    > On 8/2/2012 6:56 AM, Paul wrote:
    >> Dennis wrote:
    >>> I have a computer with the ECS MCP61M-M3(1.0A)Motherboard and an
    >>> AMD Phenom II X2 550 3.1Ghz Black Edition processor running Windows
    >>> XP Pro. This was built last November but recently started shutting
    >>> down at any time. It goes through the whole boot sequence when the
    >>> computer is turned back on. It will shut down while idle or while in
    >>> use. I added a case fan in case it was heat related but that did not
    >>> help.
    >>> Any help greatly appreciated...

    >>
    >> http://www.ecsusa.com/ECSWebSite/Pr...?DetailID=1006&CategoryID=1&MenuID=19&LanID=0
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> The CPU support table, shows processors up to 95W. The board has
    >> a three phase regulator. I don't think your processor is too
    >> much for it, unless it was overclocked a whole lot (driving power
    >> over the 95W level). And you say it happens at idle. Is the
    >> CPU VCore voltage consistent with operation of that processor ?
    >> The BIOS could set the voltage too high, as an example of
    >> a BIOS bug type.
    >>
    >> It sounds like THERMTRIP, because THERMTRIP (a signal from the
    >> processor),
    >> is used to turn off the PS_ON# signal sent to the power supply.
    >>
    >> If VCore overcurrent protection was tripped, all the fans might
    >> continue to run, but there'd be no CPU to POST, and a black screen.
    >> To clear such a fault, might require turning off power at the back
    >> of the computer.
    >>
    >> I suppose it could be something related to the single chipset heatsink,
    >> like it had come loose, but that would be more likely to cause it
    >> to crash than to switch off. The only thing I know of, more or
    >> less guaranteed because it's free in terms of protection, is THERMTRIP.
    >> Everything else is optional, and could cost a few cents more for
    >> components on the motherboard.
    >>
    >> You could remove the CPU from its socket and re-seat it. In case
    >> there is a bad contact in the socket or something. Then apply fresh
    >> thermal paste and bolt the cooler back on. In some cases, AMD
    >> aftermarket heatsinks, have been known to break off the plastic tab
    >> on the socket retention, which causes the heatsink to fit loosely,
    >> and perhaps even at idle the temperature of the CPU could end up too
    >> high (because the cooler is no longer making good contact with the CPU).
    >> Use something like Speedfan to monitor the temperature and see what it
    >> is,
    >> just before shutdown.
    >>
    >> http://www.almico.com/speedfan446.exe
    >>
    >> http://4sysops.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/SpeedFanWindowsXP4_thumb.png
    >>
    >>
    >> Paul

    >
    > The CPU fan never runs over 1200 RPM and as low as 500 RPM at times.
    > The fan spins free. So, is it the fan or is it not being told to run
    > faster by the motherboard?


    My standard operating procedure is:

    1) Enter the BIOS and disable fan speed control.
    This is supposed to cause the fan header to have +12V on it,
    and the fan should run full speed.

    2) Verify the fan interface type. Three or four pin connector. Three pin
    fans rely on modulating the +12V supply pin on the connector. On the
    four pin headers, the fourth pin is PWM, and it's a control signal for
    setting the fan speed. The desired fan speed, is communicated by the
    pulse width of the square wave control signal (25KHz signal with variable
    percentage pulse width).

    I think if the PWM signal floats (isn't driven), it stays high 100% of
    the time, and the fan runs full speed. If the signal is set to zero,
    at least the Intel spec for fan behavior says the fan should continue
    to spin at a minimum speed.

    This is an example of the four pin (PWM controlled) CPU fans.

    http://www.elma.it/IMAGES/fantt/4in4a.jpg

    Motherboard makers like the four pin type, because they may get
    the necessary control signal for it "for free". If they have to make
    a three pin CPU fan control with speed control capability, they have to
    fit a transistor (MOSFET) next to the header, and that costs money. So
    they would prefer to use the four pin type. If you plug a three pin fan
    into a modern four pin header, it should run full speed. If you plug in
    a four pin fan, the speed should be adjustable by the motherboard.

    3) Depending on the cooler design, you may be able to use a "case fan"
    to replace the fan on the cooler. For example, the cooler on my CPU
    takes a standard fan. And when I broke the fan, fitting a case fan was
    easy. Not all coolers use standard fans. With the case fan fitted, the
    fan runs full speed, all the time. I use a "quiet" fan, and the full speed
    on that, doesn't make a lot of noise. No need for speed control at all.

    The copper trace that powers fans on the motherboard, is not fuse protected.
    It's possible to burn out that trace. But in that case, all your fans using
    those headers, will stop turning. If the fan is moving slowly, either the fan
    is bad, or the header is bad in some way (not putting out the voltage that
    the fan needs, or the BIOS has done something to the hardware setting). You
    can enter the BIOS, and disable fan speed control. And if that doesn't work,
    try the fan speed adjustment in SpeedFan, and see if you can make the fan go
    faster.

    If those efforts fail, you can get an adapter cable, to power the
    fan from a Molex (disk drive) connector. But those aren't exactly
    easy to find when you need one. Since the CPU fan header needs an
    RPM signal on it, you're still required to run the RPM signal over
    to the CPU fan header. But that is a technique for "taking control"
    of the setup.

    This is an example of an adapter, for bypassing motherboard fan speed
    control. Yellow/black carry a constant +12V for the fan, so it runs
    full speed. You don't really want the twisted pair as shown. Just the
    RPM wire should run to the right-most (monitoring) connector. They've
    included the PWM wire as well, and I'd just pull that pin out of the
    right-most connector. There's a little tab, over each pin, that releases
    and allows the pin and wire to be backed out.

    http://fanadaptors.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/4-pin_PSU_4-pin_PWM-RPM.jpg

    In the diagram here, if you don't like the job the motherboard is doing,
    of controlling the CPU fan speed, you have the option of pulling the PWM
    (end-most) pin. You keep the "Sense" wire, a.k.a. RPM wire. You need that
    signal, because some BIOS will turn off the computer if they detect no
    fan RPM signal after a couple seconds of operation. A fan equipped with
    RPM sensing, and with a working "Sense" wire is needed, on the CPU fan
    header interface.

    http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145959

    http://img.techpowerup.org/110517/pwm_diagram.jpg

    HTH,
    Paul
     
    Paul, Aug 4, 2012
    #4
  5. Dennis

    Dennis Guest

    On 8/3/2012 10:12 PM, Paul wrote:
    > Dennis wrote:
    >> On 8/2/2012 6:56 AM, Paul wrote:
    >>> Dennis wrote:
    >>>> I have a computer with the ECS MCP61M-M3(1.0A)Motherboard and an
    >>>> AMD Phenom II X2 550 3.1Ghz Black Edition processor running Windows
    >>>> XP Pro. This was built last November but recently started shutting
    >>>> down at any time. It goes through the whole boot sequence when the
    >>>> computer is turned back on. It will shut down while idle or while in
    >>>> use. I added a case fan in case it was heat related but that did not
    >>>> help.
    >>>> Any help greatly appreciated...
    >>>
    >>> http://www.ecsusa.com/ECSWebSite/Pr...?DetailID=1006&CategoryID=1&MenuID=19&LanID=0
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> The CPU support table, shows processors up to 95W. The board has
    >>> a three phase regulator. I don't think your processor is too
    >>> much for it, unless it was overclocked a whole lot (driving power
    >>> over the 95W level). And you say it happens at idle. Is the
    >>> CPU VCore voltage consistent with operation of that processor ?
    >>> The BIOS could set the voltage too high, as an example of
    >>> a BIOS bug type.
    >>>
    >>> It sounds like THERMTRIP, because THERMTRIP (a signal from the
    >>> processor),
    >>> is used to turn off the PS_ON# signal sent to the power supply.
    >>>
    >>> If VCore overcurrent protection was tripped, all the fans might
    >>> continue to run, but there'd be no CPU to POST, and a black screen.
    >>> To clear such a fault, might require turning off power at the back
    >>> of the computer.
    >>>
    >>> I suppose it could be something related to the single chipset heatsink,
    >>> like it had come loose, but that would be more likely to cause it
    >>> to crash than to switch off. The only thing I know of, more or
    >>> less guaranteed because it's free in terms of protection, is THERMTRIP.
    >>> Everything else is optional, and could cost a few cents more for
    >>> components on the motherboard.
    >>>
    >>> You could remove the CPU from its socket and re-seat it. In case
    >>> there is a bad contact in the socket or something. Then apply fresh
    >>> thermal paste and bolt the cooler back on. In some cases, AMD
    >>> aftermarket heatsinks, have been known to break off the plastic tab
    >>> on the socket retention, which causes the heatsink to fit loosely,
    >>> and perhaps even at idle the temperature of the CPU could end up too
    >>> high (because the cooler is no longer making good contact with the CPU).
    >>> Use something like Speedfan to monitor the temperature and see what
    >>> it is,
    >>> just before shutdown.
    >>>
    >>> http://www.almico.com/speedfan446.exe
    >>>
    >>> http://4sysops.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/SpeedFanWindowsXP4_thumb.png
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Paul

    >>
    >> The CPU fan never runs over 1200 RPM and as low as 500 RPM at times.
    >> The fan spins free. So, is it the fan or is it not being told to run
    >> faster by the motherboard?

    >
    > My standard operating procedure is:
    >
    > 1) Enter the BIOS and disable fan speed control.
    > This is supposed to cause the fan header to have +12V on it,
    > and the fan should run full speed.
    >
    > 2) Verify the fan interface type. Three or four pin connector. Three pin
    > fans rely on modulating the +12V supply pin on the connector. On the
    > four pin headers, the fourth pin is PWM, and it's a control signal for
    > setting the fan speed. The desired fan speed, is communicated by the
    > pulse width of the square wave control signal (25KHz signal with
    > variable
    > percentage pulse width).
    >
    > I think if the PWM signal floats (isn't driven), it stays high 100% of
    > the time, and the fan runs full speed. If the signal is set to zero,
    > at least the Intel spec for fan behavior says the fan should continue
    > to spin at a minimum speed.
    >
    > This is an example of the four pin (PWM controlled) CPU fans.
    >
    > http://www.elma.it/IMAGES/fantt/4in4a.jpg
    >
    > Motherboard makers like the four pin type, because they may get
    > the necessary control signal for it "for free". If they have to make
    > a three pin CPU fan control with speed control capability, they have to
    > fit a transistor (MOSFET) next to the header, and that costs money. So
    > they would prefer to use the four pin type. If you plug a three pin fan
    > into a modern four pin header, it should run full speed. If you plug in
    > a four pin fan, the speed should be adjustable by the motherboard.
    >
    > 3) Depending on the cooler design, you may be able to use a "case fan"
    > to replace the fan on the cooler. For example, the cooler on my CPU
    > takes a standard fan. And when I broke the fan, fitting a case fan was
    > easy. Not all coolers use standard fans. With the case fan fitted, the
    > fan runs full speed, all the time. I use a "quiet" fan, and the full
    > speed
    > on that, doesn't make a lot of noise. No need for speed control at all.
    >
    > The copper trace that powers fans on the motherboard, is not fuse
    > protected.
    > It's possible to burn out that trace. But in that case, all your fans using
    > those headers, will stop turning. If the fan is moving slowly, either
    > the fan
    > is bad, or the header is bad in some way (not putting out the voltage that
    > the fan needs, or the BIOS has done something to the hardware setting). You
    > can enter the BIOS, and disable fan speed control. And if that doesn't
    > work,
    > try the fan speed adjustment in SpeedFan, and see if you can make the
    > fan go
    > faster.
    >
    > If those efforts fail, you can get an adapter cable, to power the
    > fan from a Molex (disk drive) connector. But those aren't exactly
    > easy to find when you need one. Since the CPU fan header needs an
    > RPM signal on it, you're still required to run the RPM signal over
    > to the CPU fan header. But that is a technique for "taking control"
    > of the setup.
    >
    > This is an example of an adapter, for bypassing motherboard fan speed
    > control. Yellow/black carry a constant +12V for the fan, so it runs
    > full speed. You don't really want the twisted pair as shown. Just the
    > RPM wire should run to the right-most (monitoring) connector. They've
    > included the PWM wire as well, and I'd just pull that pin out of the
    > right-most connector. There's a little tab, over each pin, that releases
    > and allows the pin and wire to be backed out.
    >
    > http://fanadaptors.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/4-pin_PSU_4-pin_PWM-RPM.jpg
    >
    >
    > In the diagram here, if you don't like the job the motherboard is doing,
    > of controlling the CPU fan speed, you have the option of pulling the PWM
    > (end-most) pin. You keep the "Sense" wire, a.k.a. RPM wire. You need that
    > signal, because some BIOS will turn off the computer if they detect no
    > fan RPM signal after a couple seconds of operation. A fan equipped with
    > RPM sensing, and with a working "Sense" wire is needed, on the CPU fan
    > header interface.
    >
    > http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145959
    >
    > http://img.techpowerup.org/110517/pwm_diagram.jpg
    >
    > HTH,
    > Paul


    I replaced the whole CPU cooler and the fan RPM went up to 3120 RPM.
    The computer has not shut down since about noon Saturday. The fan on
    it was supposed to run 4500 RPM and have a life over four years. I
    found numerous complaints on the original fan only lasting 6-7 months.
    So, don't use a Cooler Master DK9-7G52A-0L-GP CPU Cooler...
     
    Dennis, Aug 6, 2012
    #5
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