Epox Sucks and Won't Answer My Requests for Support

Discussion in 'Epox' started by Jim Milner, Sep 1, 2003.

  1. Jim Milner

    Jim Milner Guest

    OK, that subject line was meant to inflame. I guess I'm hoping that some
    Epox tech will read it and actually respond. Yeah, right.

    I've had THREE 8RDA3+ board that all exhibit the same problem, as follows:

    When I power down my system, the fans will oscillate every couple of
    seconds-the fans (and mobo POST LED) will start up then spin down, as if the
    power is fluctuating between on and off. If I unplug the power cord and plug
    it back in, the same thing happens and I'm unable to start system. After
    pulling out the power cord and replugging many times, the problem disappears
    and I'm able to restart. But as soon as I power down the problem occurs
    again.

    I've tested the power supply (400w PC Power and Cooling) and it's fine. PC
    Power and Cooling said that due to advanced power protection built into
    their PS's, they're sensitive to any power fluctuations or anomalies. They
    also mentioned that Radeon 9700 Pro cards (which is in this system) have
    power problem/glitch. I yanked the Radeon and the problem persisted as long
    as I had most of my other components hooked up.

    There seems to be a power threshold problem here. If I have all my heard
    drives and optical drives plugged in, the problem occurs. But when I unplug
    a couple of HDs or optical drives the problem ceases. I've tried installing
    the mobo in another system and the same thing happens.

    Even if one were to say the Radeon card is at fault here, why would it
    create this problem ONLY with this mobo (in a system otherwise configured
    exactly the same?

    Come-on Epox, fess up, or a least toss me a bone!

    jim
     
    Jim Milner, Sep 1, 2003
    #1
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  2. Jim Milner

    Graham W Guest

    So, have you tried another PSU in it? "PC Power and Cooling said that
    due to advanced power protection built into their PS's, they're sensitive
    to
    any power fluctuations or anomalies." I would regard that as a very big
    clue!

    What is your setting for 'PWRON after Power fail'? Try 'Off'.
     
    Graham W, Sep 1, 2003
    #2
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  3. Jim Milner

    Nitza666 Guest

    Have you tested the board outside the case?
    It looks like a short circuit.........
     
    Nitza666, Sep 1, 2003
    #3
  4. Jim Milner

    Jim Milner Guest

    yep . . . and you will note that i've tried THREE of the same board -
    8RDA3+ - but this problem doesn't occur with other mobos under the same
    config. one would have to assume then that it's not an anomaly with one
    board nor with the setup/config, but a problem endemic to the 8RDA3+
     
    Jim Milner, Sep 1, 2003
    #4
  5. Jim Milner

    Jim Milner Guest

    thanks for the reply!

    pwron after fail is set to off and if it were the power supply, which i've
    tested, the same problem would appear while using the other mobo.
    everything aims squarely at the 8rda3+ as far as i can tell...
     
    Jim Milner, Sep 2, 2003
    #5
  6. Jim Milner

    John Guest

    | OK, that subject line was meant to inflame. I guess I'm hoping that some
    | Epox tech will read it and actually respond. Yeah, right.
    |
    | I've had THREE 8RDA3+ board that all exhibit the same problem, as follows:
    |
    | When I power down my system, the fans will oscillate every couple of
    | seconds-the fans (and mobo POST LED) will start up then spin down, as if
    the
    | power is fluctuating between on and off. If I unplug the power cord and
    plug
    | it back in, the same thing happens and I'm unable to start system. After
    | pulling out the power cord and replugging many times, the problem
    disappears
    | and I'm able to restart. But as soon as I power down the problem occurs
    | again.
    |
    | I've tested the power supply (400w PC Power and Cooling) and it's fine. PC
    | Power and Cooling said that due to advanced power protection built into
    | their PS's, they're sensitive to any power fluctuations or anomalies. They
    | also mentioned that Radeon 9700 Pro cards (which is in this system) have
    | power problem/glitch. I yanked the Radeon and the problem persisted as
    long
    | as I had most of my other components hooked up.
    |
    | There seems to be a power threshold problem here. If I have all my heard
    | drives and optical drives plugged in, the problem occurs. But when I
    unplug
    | a couple of HDs or optical drives the problem ceases. I've tried
    installing
    | the mobo in another system and the same thing happens.
    |
    | Even if one were to say the Radeon card is at fault here, why would it
    | create this problem ONLY with this mobo (in a system otherwise configured
    | exactly the same?
    |
    | Come-on Epox, fess up, or a least toss me a bone!
    |
    | jim
    |
    I have heard of conditions where the power supply is unstable unless a
    certain minimum amount of power is being drawn. See if you can borrow a 300
    watt power supply from somewhere and test the boards with that. 400 watts is
    generally overkill anyway.
    John
     
    John, Sep 2, 2003
    #6
  7. "If I have all my heard drives and optical drives plugged in, the problem
    occurs. But when I unplug a couple of HDs or optical drives the problem
    ceases."

    Hmmmm. I'd try a different PSU, just to see what happens. It sounds as if a
    certain load on that PSU is triggering the behavior. Different motherboards
    *do* draw measurably different amounts of power.
     
    Peter van der Goes, Sep 2, 2003
    #7
  8. Jim Milner

    John Smith Guest

    John Smith, Sep 2, 2003
    #8
  9. Jim Milner

    Jim Milner Guest

    lol, loved the way you put that . . . got a good chuckle

    thanks for the links too!!
     
    Jim Milner, Sep 2, 2003
    #9
  10. Jim Milner

    AMD Rules Guest

    You can bet an opening statement like "EPoX sucks" will not be well received
    on those forums. In order to get a quality response to a technical problem,
    one must approach the group with a more rational statement than that.

    While I happen to have owned many EPoX boards over the years and been a
    periodic poster both in this group and others (going back to the days when
    EPoX self-hosted their own discussion group) I am resistant to even offer my
    thoughts on what might be wrong with your setup and causing you grief.

    I expect a header like this will grab attention in the forums listed below,
    unfortunately I expect the response will not be related to solutions rather
    opting to ignite a flame war against the OP.

    Mr. van der Goes on the other hand, has likely pinpointed the problem for
    you. If the mobo runs great without certain components plugged in, I'd
    suspect either the components or a lack of adequate power. It is quite
    feasible that the combination of hardware you have assembled, and
    specifically in conjuction with the 8RDA3+ is using to much juice on one of
    the power rails. Borrow a higher rated power supply from a friend and try
    it out.

    One must not be too quick to blame the entire problem on the motherboard(s).
    The fact that you have had multiple boards behave in the same fashion only
    strengthens the argument that it is probably NOT a motherboard issue at all.

    Troubleshooting is a tough sport. Start from scratch (even out of the case
    if necessary) to add only one variable at a time until you can separate the
    good from the bad. Hardware conflicts are possible, and a fact of life.

    Best of luck.......

    AMD Rules
     
    AMD Rules, Sep 2, 2003
    #10
  11. Jim Milner

    Jim Milner Guest

    Thanks for the even-handed and thorough response. The subject line, I know,
    could be problematical but I choose to post it because I wasn't getting any
    substantive help by more moderate means and Epox has not replied to any of
    my requests for support (and you can bet that I did not say anything even
    remotely inflammatory in those missives-this is the first time I've ever
    stooped to this). I've been at this for about 2 months and feel at the end
    of my rope. I should just return the board and eat my losses and get
    another board, say by Abit, Asus or Gigabyte. I've posted in several forums
    around the web and have received some good feedback but everything suggested
    I've already tried. I used to build and troubleshoot systems for a living
    and so come at this with some knowledge . . . obviously not sufficient,
    though.



    I've tried every possible combination of parts and the one factor that
    remains consistent with the problem is this mobo. I'll admit that the
    problem is this mobo is connected with my particular config., but I've tried
    other mobos with exactly the same config and they all work fine. I've
    swapped in a lower power (and cheaper) PS and things run fine. But I know
    that my PS, made by PC & Cooling, has sophisticated power and overvoltage
    protection and I know that this PS is in good working order (I've tested it,
    etc.), it's just sensing some sort of voltage anomaly, like back-feeding 3.3
    voltage into the power supply and tripping the overvoltage protection. This
    could be coming from the Radeon card. But this problem does not occur with
    other mobos. Again, the one common factor is the 8RDA3+.



    I too have used Epox mobos for years and I've never had any problems at all.
    I just would be nice if I could get an Epox tech to take this problem
    seriously and lend an ear and a hand. The lack of support does not inspire
    loyalty and I've been a loyal customer for years, like you, back when they
    hosted their own group. This is disappointing.
     
    Jim Milner, Sep 3, 2003
    #11
  12. Jim Milner

    Nonesosorry Guest

    I have setup 4 of these systems using PC Power & Cooling PSU's (actually
    three of them I purchased with their Steel cases too, the fourth was PSU in
    an Antec case) with 400W to 450W(I dont see the 450 listed any more, hmmmm).
    I live and maintain systems in a rural environment, so plenty of power line
    disturbances. systems usually have GeForce 3 or 4 with 128MB on each card.
    At least 512 MB memory. All three are SCSI based with one using 3 15k RPM
    Fujitsu drives. Fourth one used WD IDE, I dont remember the model. All four
    systems have one DVDROM and one SCSI burner in them, various brands from
    Sony to Tosh'. 2 use Creative cards Live (but dont remember Live+, mp3,
    gamer, 5.1 etc models) and one uses SantaCruz sounds cards and one is using
    no sound card. Various USB keyboards, mice, and or KVM's.

    Not much help I guess. How about a smile: Maybe it is a loose nut behind the
    keyboard ;)
     
    Nonesosorry, Sep 3, 2003
    #12
  13. Jim Milner

    Jim Milner Guest

    got some chuckles . . . thanks!

    i live in the outback as well, with all the attendant power anomalies. so,
    any of yr systems have a Radeon 9700 Pro in them??
     
    Jim Milner, Sep 3, 2003
    #13
  14. Jim Milner

    JR Guest

    I've had an identical problem......
    You already have the answer in your above statement:
    did you transfer any drive or cable when you swapped out to the other
    system, if
    you did, that drive or cable is probably the answer?

    I had a hard drive, that when I eventually managed to power up the system,
    would
    work flawlessly until the system was turned off.

    So to recap, the symptoms you have, don't point at the motherboard, they
    point to
    the drives/cables it could be any one of them, hard drive or cd rom.

    I'm sure you can very easily test which one is causing the problem.

    IMPORTANT:
    This is said on the assumption (very dangerous thing to do when fault
    finding) that you
    did transfer something other than the motherboard to that other system that
    you tried it in
     
    JR, Sep 3, 2003
    #14
  15. Jim Milner

    Jim Milner Guest

    I've swapped out mobos into EXACTLY the same system (cables and all). The
    8rda3+ is the only board to exhibit these symptoms. Since no other mobo has
    showed this symptom and three 8rda3+'s have I'm forced to conclude that the
    problem has something to do with the 8rda3+, in conjunction, of course, with
    my particular config.
     
    Jim Milner, Sep 3, 2003
    #15
  16. Jim Milner

    JR Guest

    So when you swapped, you did carry over other compentents, poor practice,
    invalid test.

    Ok lets just say for instance that it is a hard drive that is causing the
    problem, it may boot/run fine in another system, that proves little, you may
    also find that that very same hard drive, every now and again, suffers from
    unexplained data loss, in this instance most people will look not at the
    hard drive itself, but pretty well everything else, as they make the _wrong_
    assumption that the hard drive is ok.

    I've got duff drives here, that appear to work well, on some mbs they show
    no fault, other than occasional data loss, on others they fail to boot, how
    many did you try? Of course if its a cd/dvd drive thats causing the problem,
    the data loss issue wouldn't come into the equation.

    Rules for problem solving:

    remove everything other than that which is essential to boot the system,
    replace one at a time

    if when you have the system "bare" that is in the first step above, it still
    shows errors, replace the essential compents and try again, process of
    elimination, the fault will be found.

    You've tried 3 identical mbs, it is time to realise that it is not the
    motherboard at fault, more likely an item, as your testing proves, that you
    don't want to think is failing

    Perhaps its time to look at "particular config" and realise that there is an
    item in it that is sub par/starting to fail, or just crashes the ide bus
    randomly, because I can't see anyone thinking that there is a problem with
    an item, because it fails to work with another item, that is already proven
    to be the cause of the problem, which may work for a while on another,
    perhaps more fault tolerant, sytem?
     
    JR, Sep 3, 2003
    #16
  17. Jim Milner

    Jim Milner Guest

    Many thanks! Great reply and very useful info. While I've done the
    gadget-swapping-in-and-out thing as well as
    minimal-boot-add-in-more-stuff-until-problem-appears thing as well, I'm
    thinking that I need to do it again. Last time I did I had been up two days
    and it was between 1 and 5am--was not thinking too clearly and my memory is
    fuzzy. Sleep is a good thing to have when one is troubleshooting. Hehe.



    Troubleshooting has always been my forte and it's almost a point of pride
    with me to get to the bottom of this one. Maybe time to let my pride be and
    start with "beginner's mind."



    Thanks again for all yr imput . . . very much appreciated!!!



    jim
     
    Jim Milner, Sep 3, 2003
    #17
  18. Jim Milner

    Graham W Guest

    Jim Milner wrote:
    [...]
    and change out the PSU first of all!
     
    Graham W, Sep 3, 2003
    #18
  19. Jim Milner

    Nonesosorry Guest

    No Radeon 9700 Pro went into them. Last System I stuck a Radeon 9500 Pro
    128MB into was an old Dell PIII800. I think it was a 9500 Pro, all I
    remember for sure is it had a lot of "features", nice looking blue heat
    sinks everywhere, and def had 128MB...
     
    Nonesosorry, Sep 6, 2003
    #19
  20. Jim Milner

    Nonesosorry Guest

    Here is a trick that may help: Try running the power for the fan on the card
    from one of the drive connectors, instead of the card itself-this will drop
    a few mA to @100mA off the current the card is pulling from the mobo's
    onboard power supplies.

    Or, you could power the card from a drive connector-make sure you know what
    you are doing for this one! You may need an extra volt reg to help.
     
    Nonesosorry, Sep 6, 2003
    #20
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