Gruber's take on Mountain Lion

Discussion in 'Apple' started by Michelle Steiner, Feb 19, 2012.

  1. Michelle Steiner, Feb 19, 2012
    #1
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  2. Michelle Steiner

    Wes Groleau Guest

    Slightly different description of Gatekeeper than I had seen.

    Assuming his is correct, I have to agree with him on the default.


    --
    Wes Groleau

    It seems a pity that psychology should have
    destroyed all our knowledge of human nature.
    — G. K. Chesterton
     
    Wes Groleau, Feb 20, 2012
    #2
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  3. Slightly different description of Gatekeeper than I had seen.

    Assuming his is correct, I have to agree with him on the default.[/QUOTE]

    His description is the same as all the other descriptions I've seen from
    people who have actually used Mountain Lion.
     
    Michelle Steiner, Feb 20, 2012
    #3
  4. Michelle Steiner

    Wes Groleau Guest

    The one I saw, or thought I saw, had app-store only as the default and
    do what you want as the only other option.

    --
    Wes Groleau

    It seems a pity that psychology should have
    destroyed all our knowledge of human nature.
    — G. K. Chesterton
     
    Wes Groleau, Feb 20, 2012
    #4
  5. Michelle Steiner

    Bread Guest

    One thing I'd like to see is an ability to override Gatekeeper on a
    one-off basis. For example, suppose I have it set to the default -
    allow signed apps as well as App Store apps. If I have *one* unsigned
    app which I've decided to trust, I would like to be able to run it
    without giving permission to *all* unsigned apps. I hope they've
    considered this.

    Thanks for posting the link to Gruber's note. He's always good to read.
     
    Bread, Feb 20, 2012
    #5
  6. Yes, they have. This is from Jason Snell's review of Gatekeeper at the
    MacWorld web site:

    Gatekeeper is also really easy to override. If you right-click on an app in
    the Finder and then choose Open, you¹re prompted with a different dialog
    box‹one that also offers to open the offending app. If you choose Open, the
    app launches normally, and that¹s it.

    Finally, it¹s important to note that because Gatekeeper uses the File
    Quarantine system, it only works the very first time you try to launch an
    app, and even then only when it¹s been downloaded from an app on your Mac
    like a web browser or email program. And once an app has been launched
    once, it¹s beyond the reach of Gatekeeper.

    Combine this with the ease of overriding Gatekeeper by using the Open
    command and it¹s clear that Gatekeeper in Mountain Lion isn¹t intended to
    be some sort of high-security app lockdown. It¹s just a tool to encourage
    people not to run software they don¹t trust. If they really, truly want to
    run an app, Mountain Lion won¹t stop them.
     
    Michelle Steiner, Feb 20, 2012
    #6
  7. Michelle Steiner

    David Empson Guest

    That's already supported. See

    <http://www.macworld.com/article/165408/2012/02/mountain_lion_hands_on_w
    ith_gatekeeper.html>

    You can manually open an unsigned app via ctrl-click and choosing Open,
    even if you have chosen "Mac App Store and identified developers".

    Once you've launched an app, the file quarantine flag is removed and you
    won't be bothered again for that app.

    MacWorld's full list of Mountain List preview articles is here:

    <http://www.macworld.com/article/165417/2012/02/apple_readies_mac_os_x_m
    ountain_lion_update.html>
     
    David Empson, Feb 20, 2012
    #7
  8. Trouble with that is that most folks will simply regard it as another
    useless step on the way to running what they want -- like having to click
    "Agree" to a license document that they are not going to read anyway.

    It's a "feature" to impress some moronic committee that wants to
    interfere "for our own good." And having once clicked-through, if they
    find they've been screwed, well tough -- they don't get another chance.
    (Please note: I am _not_ a right-wing conservanut, even though some part
    of what I just wrote might suggest otherwise... :))
     
    Michael Siemon, Feb 20, 2012
    #8
  9. Michelle Steiner

    JF Mezei Guest


    The debate isn't about Gatekeeper in Mountain Lion. It is about where
    Gatekeeper will go beyond Mountain Lion. It has the potential to be used
    to prevent launching of unsigned apps, just like on the iPhone.

    Such lockdown may be optional. But eventually, Apple may require signed
    apps for using certain system services.
     
    JF Mezei, Feb 20, 2012
    #9
  10. Michelle Steiner

    JF Mezei Guest

    Another aspect is that gatekeeper probably resets the bit thats says
    "check with gatekeeper befoore launching" once it has decided to allow
    an app to be launched.

    But consider that should Gatekeeper not reset that but, then an
    application woudl have to be approved by gatekeeper every time it is
    launched (whcih makes more sense since this would detect applications
    that have been compromised since the signature would no longer be valid).
     
    JF Mezei, Feb 20, 2012
    #10
  11. Michelle Steiner

    Bread Guest

    Thanks, Michelle.
     
    Bread, Feb 20, 2012
    #11
  12. No probably about it; that's exactly what it will do. It's what is done
    already.
    How would it get compromised once it's on your system?
     
    Michelle Steiner, Feb 20, 2012
    #12

  13. The debate isn't about Gatekeeper in Mountain Lion. It is about where
    Gatekeeper will go beyond Mountain Lion.[/QUOTE]

    The article was about gatekeeper; it wasn't about any debate.

    As for what will happen after gatekeeper, it doesn't matter because life as
    we know it on this planet will end before then.
     
    Michelle Steiner, Feb 20, 2012
    #13
  14. Thanks, Michelle.[/QUOTE]

    De nada. However, that paragraph does not apply to the version of
    Gatekeeper that's hidden in Lion 10.7.3. I tried it.
     
    Michelle Steiner, Feb 20, 2012
    #14
  15. Who told you??[/QUOTE]

    The Mayans.
     
    Michelle Steiner, Feb 20, 2012
    #15
  16. Michelle Steiner

    Mr. Strat Guest

    Mr. Strat, Feb 20, 2012
    #16
  17. Michelle Steiner

    Alan Browne Guest

    Seems bizarre that they're doing this one-on-one to 'zines and sites.

    QUOTE

    Mountain Lion is not a step towards a single OS that powers both the Mac
    and iPad, but rather another in a series of steps toward defining a set
    of shared concepts, styles, and principles between two fundamentally
    distinct OSes.

    /QUOTE

    QUOTE

    The recurring theme: Apple is fighting against cruft — inconsistencies
    and oddities that have accumulated over the years, which made sense at
    one point but no longer — like managing to-dos in iCal (because CalDAV
    was being used to sync them to a server) or notes in Mail (because IMAP
    was the syncing back-end). The changes and additions in Mountain Lion
    are in a consistent vein: making things simpler and more obvious, closer
    to how things should be rather than simply how they always have been.

    /QUOTE

    So are they going to fix fricken iTunes?

    QUOTE

    They are keenly aware that many observers suspect or at least worry that
    the Mac is on the wane, relegated to the sideline in favor of the new
    and sensationally popular iPad.

    /QUOTE

    I guess many observers didn't read Apple's 1Q report showing a 22%
    growth in Mac sales making it alone a $26B business?

    QUOTE

    It seems important to Apple that the Mac not be perceived as an
    afterthought compared to the iPad, and, perhaps more importantly, that
    Apple not be perceived as itself considering or treating the Mac as an
    afterthought.

    /QUOTE

    Damned straight at $26B / year, 22% growth and very nice GM.
     
    Alan Browne, Feb 20, 2012
    #17
  18. Michelle Steiner

    Alan Browne Guest

    Very good point.

    Workaround will be set to wide open, DL/install, set it back. Or maybe
    by release they'll come to the same conclusion.
     
    Alan Browne, Feb 20, 2012
    #18
  19. I guess that Cook felt that Mountain Lion was not a big enough advance to
    warrant a full presentation at Yerba Buena or Moscone West, especially with
    the iPad 3 presentation coming up in about two or three weeks, and some Mac
    hardware upgrades probably coming a month or two after that.

    But Apple wanted the media to be able to discuss it as soon as they
    publicly announced it. Gathering those selected people all together could
    not have been done in secret, so therefore the one-on-one presentations.

    -- Michelle
     
    Michelle Steiner, Feb 20, 2012
    #19
  20. Michelle Steiner

    Alan Browne Guest

    When you install an App from a download on SL or Lion, you have to
    permit it to run the first time. Indeed you may need to enter an admin
    level PW. This is not very different other than the certificates.
     
    Alan Browne, Feb 20, 2012
    #20
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