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GT520 and 1920x1080

Discussion in 'Nvidia' started by Steve, Oct 29, 2013.

  1. Steve

    Steve Guest

    HI, I have the Nvidia GT520 and util recently had been connecting at
    1920x1080 via HDMI to a Hannspree 26" FullHD television.

    However, I recently upgraded to a 40" Samsung LED TV also with FullHD
    but can onyl get thew Nvidia Control Panel to show a PC option for
    1680x1050 which means in reality I can see less of my excel
    spreadsheet than I could see on the 26" Hannspree.

    Also the text quality is a little but and most noticeable with ll and
    l where there is a slight shaopwy blurred effect going on.

    Can anyone tell me how to get the GT520 to output to the TV at
    1920x1080 as it is driving me mad !!!!


    Thanks

    Steve
     
    Steve, Oct 29, 2013
    #1
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  2. Steve

    Paul Guest

    Are you absolutely sure the Sammy has 1920x1080 resolution ?
    Or does it resample, converting 1920x1080 to a smaller resolutinn
    it happens to have in its panel ?

    What is happening is, the computer and GT520, are using
    the information coming from the monitor, to set the
    max resolution. There is a serial communications path, that
    allows the computer to "pull" the EDID table from the monitor.

    computer ----- "What resolution do you support?" ---> TV ---+
    |
    <---- "1680 is my max resolution, but hey, --------+
    I could be lying..."

    To review what the monitor has in terms of configuration
    information, use Moninfo from Entechtaiwan. I have a copy
    installed on my machine here. Use the "real time entry"
    when running the program, so the EDID is pulled in real time
    while you're sitting there. And allows you to review
    what the currently connected monitor is saying, in terms
    of what it supports.

    http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/moninfo.shtm

    In the past, the NVidia control panel had some means of
    entering custom resolutions. I think I've managed to make
    a monitor go "black screen", by pushing the resolution
    past what it supported. So you'd want to do this
    while the 40" Sammy was being used as a second monitor.

    computer --------- monitor used while fooling around
    --------- sammy, on the second video output port

    Entechtaiwan also offers PowerStrip for entering
    custom resolution settings. It is available for
    evaluation for 30 days, as far as I can remember.
    And is useful on display devices that don't have
    EDID or a serial bus, and need to be programmed
    by hand. Again, a nice Windows program, and sets
    things in the same way that Linux "modeline" settings
    work (front porch, back porch, screen width,
    all that jazz).

    # Example Modeline via "cvt" (I use this in a virtual machine)
    # Frequency, four params for horizontal, four params for vertical

    Modeline "1152x864_50.00" 66.25 1152 1208 1320 1488 864 867 871 892 -hsync +vsync

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modeline

    So if you've never evaluated this software before,
    give this a try for 30 days, and see if the monitor
    actually supports a better setting. Rather than
    crafting a modeline, the program has GUI controls
    for some things (so you can center the display).

    http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/ps.shtm

    In the dim and distant past, there were TV
    sets that supported say 1920x1080, then the
    idiots at the TV manufacturer set the "PC Interface"
    EDID information to say 1440x900. In other words,
    *always* forcing resampling on the way to the
    panel. Modern TVs support 1:1 pixel mapping,
    so if you bought and paid for a 1920 resolution,
    the PC port gives access to that 1920 as the
    max resolution setting. Let's hope you have
    one of those TV sets, and not one of the
    sets that has the brain dead setup. Nothing
    worse than being forced to resample text pixels
    all the time, and seeing blurry fonts.

    If you need further help, post either the complete
    model number of the Sammy, or post the URL that
    points to the user manual for it. You can usually
    get a PDF version of the user manual from the
    TV manufacturer site. It might actually show in
    a table, that it is "forcing" the PC port to
    resample. For no good reason.

    Good luck,
    Paul
     
    Paul, Oct 29, 2013
    #2
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  3. Steve

    Steve Guest

    Hi Paul, thank you for such a detailed and informative post.

    I will have a look at the moninfo as advised and report back.

    For info the model number is SAM-LED-UE40EH5000-BK

    Thanks once again - a top class reply :)

    Cheers

    Steve
     
    Steve, Oct 30, 2013
    #3
  4. Steve

    Steve Guest

    Hi Paul, in addition to that I have just run moninfo which reports the
    following

    Monitor
    Model name............... SAMSUNG
    Manufacturer............. Samsung
    Plug and Play ID......... SAM0902
    Serial number............ n/a
    Manufacture date......... 2011, ISO week 41
    Filter driver............ None
    -------------------------
    EDID revision............ 1.3
    Input signal type........ Digital
    Color bit depth.......... Undefined
    Display type............. RGB color
    Screen size.............. 890 x 500 mm (40.2 in)
    Power management......... Not supported
    Extension blocs.......... 1 (CEA-EXT)
    -------------------------
    DDC/CI................... Not supported

    Color characteristics
    Default color space...... Non-sRGB
    Display gamma............ 2.20
    Red chromaticity......... Rx 0.640 - Ry 0.330
    Green chromaticity....... Gx 0.300 - Gy 0.600
    Blue chromaticity........ Bx 0.150 - By 0.060
    White point (default).... Wx 0.313 - Wy 0.329
    Additional descriptors... None

    Timing characteristics
    Horizontal scan range.... 15-81kHz
    Vertical scan range...... 24-75Hz
    Video bandwidth.......... 230MHz
    CVT standard............. Not supported
    GTF standard............. Not supported
    Additional descriptors... None
    Preferred timing......... Yes
    Native/preferred timing.. 1920x1080p at 60Hz (16:9)
    Modeline............... "1920x1080" 148.500 1920 2008 2052 2200
    1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync
    Detailed timing #1....... 1366x768p at 60Hz (16:9)
    Modeline............... "1366x768" 85.500 1366 1436 1579 1792 768
    771 774 798 +hsync +vsync

    Standard timings supported
    720 x 400p at 70Hz - IBM VGA
    640 x 480p at 60Hz - IBM VGA
    640 x 480p at 67Hz - Apple Mac II
    640 x 480p at 72Hz - VESA
    640 x 480p at 75Hz - VESA
    800 x 600p at 60Hz - VESA
    800 x 600p at 72Hz - VESA
    800 x 600p at 75Hz - VESA
    832 x 624p at 75Hz - Apple Mac II
    1024 x 768p at 60Hz - VESA
    1024 x 768p at 70Hz - VESA
    1024 x 768p at 75Hz - VESA
    1280 x 1024p at 75Hz - VESA
    1152 x 870p at 75Hz - Apple Mac II
    1152 x 864p at 75Hz - VESA STD
    1280 x 720p at 60Hz - VESA STD
    1280 x 800p at 60Hz - VESA STD
    1280 x 1024p at 60Hz - VESA STD
    1440 x 900p at 60Hz - VESA STD
    1600 x 900p at 60Hz - VESA STD
    1680 x 1050p at 60Hz - VESA STD

    EIA/CEA-861 Information
    Revision number.......... 3
    IT underscan............. Supported
    Basic audio.............. Supported
    YCbCr 4:4:4.............. Supported
    YCbCr 4:2:2.............. Supported
    Native formats........... 1
    Detailed timing #1....... 1920x1080i at 50Hz (16:9)
    Modeline............... "1920x1080" 74.250 1920 2448 2492 2640
    1080 1084 1094 1124 interlace +hsync +vsync
    Detailed timing #2....... 1920x1080i at 60Hz (16:9)
    Modeline............... "1920x1080" 74.250 1920 2008 2052 2200
    1080 1084 1094 1124 interlace +hsync +vsync
    Detailed timing #3....... 1280x720p at 50Hz (16:9)
    Modeline............... "1280x720" 74.250 1280 1720 1760 1980 720
    725 730 750 +hsync +vsync
    Detailed timing #4....... 1280x720p at 60Hz (16:9)
    Modeline............... "1280x720" 74.250 1280 1390 1430 1650 720
    725 730 750 +hsync +vsync

    CE video identifiers (VICs) - timing/formats supported
    1920 x 1080p at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1) [Native]
    1920 x 1080p at 50Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    1280 x 720p at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    1280 x 720p at 50Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    1920 x 1080i at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    1920 x 1080i at 50Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    720 x 480p at 60Hz - EDTV (16:9, 32:27)
    720 x 576p at 50Hz - EDTV (16:9, 64:45)
    1920 x 1080p at 24Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    1920 x 1080p at 25Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    1920 x 1080p at 30Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    720 x 480i at 60Hz - Doublescan (16:9, 32:27)
    720 x 576i at 50Hz - Doublescan (16:9, 64:45)
    NB: NTSC refresh rate = (Hz*1000)/1001

    CE audio data (formats supported)
    LPCM 2-channel, 16/20/24 bit depths at 32/44/48 kHz

    CE speaker allocation data
    Channel configuration.... 2.0
    Front left/right......... Yes
    Front LFE................ No
    Front center............. No
    Rear left/right.......... No
    Rear center.............. No
    Front left/right center.. No
    Rear left/right center... No
    Rear LFE................. No

    CE video capability data
    CE scan behavior......... Supports overscan and underscan
    IT scan behavior......... Supports overscan and underscan
    PT scan behavior......... Not supported
    RGB quantization range... Not supported
    YCC quantization range... Not supported

    CE vendor specific data (VSDB)
    IEEE registration number. 0x000C03
    CEC physical address..... 1.0.0.0
    Supports AI (ACP, ISRC).. Yes
    Supports 48bpp........... No
    Supports 36bpp........... Yes
    Supports 30bpp........... Yes
    Supports YCbCr 4:4:4..... Yes
    Supports dual-link DVI... No
    Maximum TMDS clock....... 225MHz

    Report information
    Date generated........... 30/10/2013
    Software revision........ 2.70.0.989
    Data source.............. Real-time 0x0071
    Operating system......... 6.1.7601.2.Service Pack 1

    Raw data

    00,FF,FF,FF,FF,FF,FF,00,4C,2D,02,09,00,00,00,00,29,15,01,03,80,59,32,78,0A,EE,91,A3,54,4C,99,26,

    0F,50,54,BD,EF,80,71,4F,81,C0,81,00,81,80,95,00,A9,C0,B3,00,01,01,02,3A,80,18,71,38,2D,40,58,2C,

    45,00,A0,5A,00,00,00,1E,66,21,56,AA,51,00,1E,30,46,8F,33,00,A0,5A,00,00,00,1E,00,00,00,FD,00,18,

    4B,0F,51,17,00,0A,20,20,20,20,20,20,00,00,00,FC,00,53,41,4D,53,55,4E,47,0A,20,20,20,20,20,01,A6,

    02,03,25,F1,4D,90,1F,04,13,05,14,03,12,20,21,22,07,16,23,09,07,07,83,01,00,00,E2,00,0F,67,03,0C,

    00,10,00,B8,2D,01,1D,80,D0,72,1C,16,20,10,2C,25,80,A0,5A,00,00,00,9E,01,1D,80,18,71,1C,16,20,58,

    2C,25,00,A0,5A,00,00,00,9E,01,1D,00,BC,52,D0,1E,20,B8,28,55,40,A0,5A,00,00,00,1E,01,1D,00,72,51,

    D0,1E,20,6E,28,55,00,A0,5A,00,00,00,1E,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,EC

    Does this mean I cannot get the TV to output at 1920x1080 as this
    would be pretty disappointing to say the least as I use excel
    extensively and the hope was bigger screen = more columns and rows and
    therefore easier to manage data !!

    Cheers

    Steve
     
    Steve, Oct 30, 2013
    #4
  5. Steve

    Paul Guest

    OK, here are the manuals.

    This one is generic

    http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/201203/20120307193044523/X9DVBEU4E-ENG.pdf

    and this one is specific

    http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/c...612218/[UEH5000-XU]BN68-03955B-06Eng-0727.pdf

    It was hard to tell from the download page, whether
    I got the right one for your TV or not. Yours is BK
    and this is just K, and I'm hoping the B refers to
    the exterior chassis color.

    UE40EH5000K Downloads
    http://www.samsung.com/uk/support/model/UE40EH5000KXXU-downloads

    *******

    This part from your report, looks encouraging.
    Since the word "Native" is there, this tells me
    the TV is really 1920 physical pixels across. So
    I can forget about the idea it scales everything
    to fit a more inferior panel. This says, it should
    be working, and now you have to *insist* from the PC
    end, that this is how it's going to be.

    Native/preferred timing.. 1920x1080p at 60Hz (16:9)
    Modeline... "1920x1080" 148.500 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync

    The VESA modes ending with this one, that's annoying.
    If there had been a 1920 next in this section, you
    would have got the desired result immediately. I
    expect this is a standards overlap issue of some
    sort. (I.e. 1080p is a "movie" or "consumer video"
    mode, and not specific to PCs.)

    1680 x 1050p at 60Hz - VESA STD

    I don't know the technical details, of whether VESA
    is supposed to have a "PC 1920" type entry or not.
    However, never fear, as the NVidia control panel
    has resolution adjustments, and you can add
    *new* resolutions there.

    If you look at this picture (captured using my older
    NVidia card with a regular computer monitor), you can
    see there is an option for modeline input.

    http://imageshack.us/a/img811/613/kf2.gif

    It's a matter of getting that info (the stuff from
    moninfo), into the Nvidia panel. Set the "Timing Standard"
    to "Manual", and you can key in the modeline.
    It's [Frequency] [four numbers for horizontal]
    [four numbers for vertical], in terms
    of what is encoded in the modeline.

    Your TV has two HDMI inputs, one of which is labeled
    as "DVI", and it's possible the response of the
    two differs somehow. It could be that "DVI" implies
    DVI compatibility mode, or maybe it's saying something
    about HDCP. Not really sure. In the past, some TVs
    labeled a connector as "PC", and maybe "DVI" means
    the same sort of thing.

    Also, the manual makes no mention of HDCP, but I
    presume given the year of manufacturer, it's in there.
    HDCP is used to scramble the signals on the HDMI cable,
    so a "pirate" can't copy movie content. That should
    be negotiated automatically, between monitor device
    and video card. If Windows discovers HDCP is not running,
    then funny things may happen when using a video player
    application full screen. I expect this is yet another
    blip in the (slightly lacking) user manual. It could
    be that they consider HDMI to imply HDCP, and so they
    don't need to put the word in the manual.

    You have component input on the TV as well, but
    I don't see a reason to be even thinking about that
    now. My older NVidia card has the mini-DIN connector
    on the front, and that's one way of getting there. Newer
    cards dispense with component output. It's a kind of
    anti-consumer move. I like having the option there,
    for emergencies when nothing else is working for me.

    *******

    I think you'll be able to fix this without PowerStrip.
    Give the NVidia Control Panel a try.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Oct 31, 2013
    #5
  6. Steve

    Steve Guest

    Hi Paul, thanks again for a very detailed reply however, I have tried
    custom resolutions and simply cannot get it to display what I expect
    to be a relatively sharp picture. I am sure it is most likely down to
    my lack of knowledge but when I try and create a 1920x1080 resolution
    the Nvidia Panel says there is already a custom resolution int he PC
    section of those dimensions. However, in the PC section the largest
    resolution available is 1680x1050.

    As with you I suspect that if the moninfo report showed

    1680 x 1050p at 60Hz - VESA STD &
    1920 x 1080p at 60Hz - VESA STD

    Then we would be good to go. As it is I am unsure how to achieve this.

    Regards


    Steve
     
    Steve, Oct 31, 2013
    #6
  7. Steve

    Paul Guest

    The NVidia control panel, should have the regular resolution
    setting section, as well as the custom one. If it claims
    the regular resolution setting section has it, then
    it should have been showing up there. (Maybe the
    control panel is relying on EDID, and won't accept
    an over-range spec ?) You would think if the NVidia
    control panel was rejecting the custom setting, it
    would say as much. Or, maybe it implies we're looking
    in the wrong part of the NVidia control panel, and we
    should be looking for a "TV section". I vaguely remember
    a long time ago, when HD first came out, there was
    a separate section for dealing with HD resolutions.
    That may have been on the old (classic) Nvidia control
    panel or something.

    The TV set has two choices:

    1) You use the NVIDIA custom resolution, set to 1920x1080
    via modeline, and a picture of some sort is displayed.
    That at least, proves the frequencies involved,
    are "in range".

    2) You do the 1920x1080 res, and the OSD on the TV set
    says "out of range". That then, tells you the TV has
    rejected the settings. While you could make a typing
    mistake in the NVidia control panel, or the NVidia
    driver could do something stupid, this is kinda
    reinforcing that the TV isn't going to accept that
    resolution choice. Multisync protection in display
    devices, measures the frequency, and rejects things
    which are too high.

    If you're a match on (1), then it's time to have a
    look at the TV OSD interface, and see if some
    setting there is lacking. The manual says there
    are some scaling settings, such as 25% shrink
    or 50% shrink or the like. Implying there may be
    some ways on the TV end, to screw up the picture.

    Try both HDMI connectors, and see if they give the
    same response. They both likely use the same EDID
    chip output, to provide info to the computer.

    I don't know what else to suggest at this point,
    short of using an "EDID faker box". Normally,
    those are only needed to coerce projection
    setups into doing the right thing. (Projection
    devices typically don't have EDID, and the
    NVidia control panel will limit output to
    say 1024x768 in that case.) But you have a
    working EDID, judging by the table that
    ends at 1680. The curious part is why
    that table doesn't have a 1920. I can't
    imagine one HDMI having a different EDID
    than the other, but maybe that's the case.

    (You can get off-brand ones for less than this...
    This presents a fake EDID to the computer, to allow
    the computer to send higher than 1024x768. If TV
    normally sends 1680, this box can say "I support 1920,
    honest I do", and then the NVidia control panel
    "snaps to attention".)

    http://www.gefen.com/kvm/ext-hdmi-edidp.jsp?prod_id=8005

    With the two HDMI input ports, make sure no other
    HDMIs are connected while you're working on
    this problem. Use one HDMI and leave the other
    one unused, while testing. Just in case they
    did something strange like share the EDID bus
    over the two connectors. If you had an XBOX
    connected to one HDMI while testing computer
    on the other HDMI, try disconnecting the XBOX
    and testing with just the computer.

    *******

    There's an example of a "cannot be added" here, but
    probably for different reasons. Based on the
    moninfo content, I don't really see changing
    driver versions, as causing it to behave
    any differently. The real question is
    whether a custom setting is allowed to bypass
    the perceived "limit" coming from EDID.

    https://forums.geforce.com/default/...t-cannot-be-added-quot-with-169-21-163-75-ok/

    Paul
     
    Paul, Nov 1, 2013
    #7
  8. Steve

    Steve Guest


    Hi Paul, you will not believe the answer to this which I have just
    stumbled upon.

    I simply renamed the HDMI2 connection to PC went into Windows and
    changed the resolution to 1920x1080 and it worked.

    I simply cannot believe how simple it was and how this is not clearly
    advised in the manual or elsewhere on the net.

    Once again thank you very much for your incredible knowledge on the
    subject and for taking the time to respond and help me.

    Kind regards


    Steve
     
    Steve, Nov 1, 2013
    #8
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