Heat getting to it- please assist??!

Discussion in 'Asus' started by Mark G., Aug 11, 2004.

  1. Mark G.

    Mark G. Guest

    My computer is heating and shutting down. Here is my configuration:

    I am running an ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe with a Barton 2800+ and with 1 gig of
    Patriot PC3300 DDR ram, with a GeForce 3 Ti200 128 DDR video card and then 4
    hard drives, a 20 gig IBM 7200rpm IDE HD which has my OS (XP Pro SP1) and
    other related stuff, a Maxtor 120 gig 7200rpm IDE HD which has data and a
    lot of program files, an IBM 40 gig 7200rpm IDE HD which is a back up for
    some data on the 120 gig HD, and then a Maxtor 250 gig SATA HD at 7200rpm.
    Then for cooling, I have a Volcano 7 fan for my processor, an additional PCI
    fan for the video card not including the one on it, a 120mm fan in the back
    for exhaust, a 80mm fan at the bottom front of the case, and another 80mm
    fan in the front in front of a stack of 2 of the HD's. A 2 fan configuration
    in front of the HD holding the OS in a 5 1/2" bay, a 80mm fan in the window
    on the side of the case. An then finally, my Aspire 500W power supply has 2
    80mm fans as well. I also my round cables for the floppy and the IDE cables
    as well as my other wires and whatnot tied together with zip ties. So all of
    this and it keeps getting to hot. Seems like it is doing it at about 57
    degrees Celsius.

    I looked at he BIOS and you can not change the default for the safety shut
    down of which I do not think would be a good idea. What else could I do?
    Please assist as I have run out of resources other than going liquid cooled
    of which I do not want to do. And remember, it has been unusually hot here
    in the Seattle area and this is just happing when I try to play games like
    Far Cry and Enemy Territory.

    Sorry for the long post and thanks in advanced for the help.
     
    Mark G., Aug 11, 2004
    #1
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  2. Mark G.

    JBM Guest

    Has your computer ever worked without over heating?
    Have you cleaned the inside of the case? especially
    the CPU fan and heatsink.
    Also does the case have proper air flow, the fans in
    front sucking air into the case and the fans in back
    blowing it out. You want it that way because if your
    fan in the back is sucking air into the case it would
    be drawn up through the power supply and wouldn't
    circulate through the case to cool other components.

    Jim M
     
    JBM, Aug 11, 2004
    #2
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  3. Mark G.

    Paul Guest

    Thermal performance is measured by "deltas". The difference between
    case air temperature and room air temperature, according to AMD,
    should be less than 7C for a well ventilated case. Some users in
    this group, have cases with a delta of 15C, implying the case
    needs work. Since you have a Geforce TI-200, the video card is
    not a big contributor to your problem, and it should be possible
    to tame the thing.

    I have the one page datasheet for the Volcano7, and the thermal
    resistance is 0.57C/W at 7V fan and 0.52C/W at 12V fan. According
    to my favorite table, the Barton 2800+ FSB333 is 53.7W power
    dissipation at max load.

    If it is currently 30C in your room, 37C for case air, then
    the expected CPU temp is 37C + 53.7*0.52 = 65C. That sounds
    a little too warm, so you need a HSF with a lower thermal
    resistance, as well as maybe a small improvement in case cooling
    over the max that AMD recommends.

    The Zalman 7000A has a thermal resistance in the 0.25C/W range.
    With our theoretical 37C case air, it would run this config
    at 37C + 53.7*0.25 = 50.4C.

    My intention from this example, is to show that the most improvement
    can come from a better HSF, while working to improve case air
    cooling, if the delta between case and room is 7C, is pretty small.
    If the delta between case and room in your computer is closer to
    15C, then improving the fan arrangement could help.

    If you want to buy the Zalman, and the socket for the processor
    is near the top edge of the motherboard, then you'll need 10mm
    of space between the motherboard PCB edge and the computer power
    supply. The compatibility info on the Zalman web page predicts
    whether capacitors or the processor socket get in the way of
    installation, but they leave the clearance between heatsink
    fins and the power supply for the user to figure out.

    One way to see whether it is the case that makes the difference,
    is to take the side off the case, and if the computer stays
    running, then the case needs work.

    I'm assuming in all this, that if you used thermal paste for
    the processor, that you check and reapply the paste about once
    a year. Paste products can be pumped out of the junction between
    the CPU and HSF, and that is another reason for sub-optimal
    performance. It is one reason to record the "deltas" from room
    to case, and case to CPU, a few days after the paste has been
    freshly installed - so a year from now, you can see if the CPU
    has "fallen behind" and is running a 5C to 10C bigger delta
    than it used to. That tells you it is time to reapply the paste,
    or at least have a look for dust or obstructions.

    HTH,
    Paul
     
    Paul, Aug 11, 2004
    #3
  4. Mark G.

    Michael-NC Guest


    I'd verify that. I have a case temp of 28C and a room temp of 21C.

    My CPU is at 43C

    I have 4- 80mm fans blowing in at the bottom front of the case, 1- 80mm
    exhausting out the back under the power supply, 2 fans in the power supply
    itself and I also have a 5.25" fan unit that's mounted in the topmost 5.25"
    drive bay that has 2- 80mm fans exhausting out of the louvered front of the
    unit. All in all, that's 9 fans, not including the fan on the GPU. It's
    really not all that loud either as I used quiet type, ball bearing fans
    throughout.

    Since I do have a lot of air moving through the case, I find I need to go in
    and clean out the dust bunnies every 6 months or less but most of the time,
    I don't keep the same parts in there for 6 months so it doesn't matter...
     
    Michael-NC, Aug 11, 2004
    #4
  5. Mark G.

    Mark G. Guest

    Actually, I just rebuilt this computer with the new case, the SATA drive,
    and a new power supply. So no dust bunnies in there. When I take off the
    side of the case, it does do better and after reading the responses to this
    post, I think a new HSF is in order. I do not know if I can get that Zalmac
    at my local retailer and do not want to buy it over the web. Also, there is
    a correction, I have a CoolerMaster fan, not a Volcano. So tomorrow I am off
    to Fry's to get a new HSF. Any other ideas on which one to get? Thanks much.
     
    Mark G., Aug 12, 2004
    #5
  6. Mark G.

    Michael-NC Guest

    much.

    Depends on how noisy they are. I like the quiet coolers. I have one of these
    on a XP2100 in the kitchen and I can hardly hear the machine run. The CPU
    stays around 42C in that machine.

    http://www.thermaltake.com/coolers/volcano/rs/a1889b.htm
     
    Michael-NC, Aug 12, 2004
    #6
  7. Mark G.

    Mark G. Guest

    Could it possibly be just to hot in my home office right now? 85 degrees or
    so. Also, how should all my fans be for intake and exhaust? I thought I had
    them set up right, but maybe not. Any input on that? You can read my current
    configuration on my first post. Would sure like to get this taken care of.
    Thanks and hope to hear more soon.
     
    Mark G., Aug 12, 2004
    #7
  8. Mark G.

    Paul Guest

    There are three models 7000, 7000A, and 7000B (just introduced).
    They come in pure copper (Cu), or aluminum+copper (AlCu).
    The 7000 only has adapters for S478, I think. And the Zalman
    web site seems a little confused now, so it is hard to tell.
    The 7000A is good for three sockets, including S462. The 7000B
    covers two other Athlon64 sockets and brings the number of sockets
    supported to five or so by the 7000B. They are all basically the
    same, but with different adapter kits.

    The heatsink is based on laminated plates. It isn't a solid chunk
    of metal, like a Swiftech heatsink. The AlCu has the center plates
    made of copper, which helps conduct heat from a processor with a
    bare die. The fact the rest of the plates are aluminum,
    reduces the weight, and that is the reason I bought a 7000A
    AlCu for my P4C800-E Deluxe.

    http://zalman.co.kr/eng/product/code_list.asp?code=005

    The pure copper has nothing but copper plates laminated together.
    While this has superior conduction properties, and gives a
    better thermal resistance number in the spec sheet, an
    open question is what kind of finish the copper has on it,
    and how long the surface of the copper will be in pristine
    condition. What the pure copper gains in conduction, it could
    lose in its ability to transfer heat to the air in a year's time.

    This is a strange HSF compared to others I've used. I am
    used to feeling a flow of air through other heat sinks, and
    you could judge how effective a HSF was, by feeling that flow
    of air. The Zalman doesn't have a perceptible flow of air
    through the fins, but it does have a "warm cloud" around
    the heatsink area. Based on that observation, it is possible
    the principle transfer mechanism is by turbulence near the
    fins, rather than a laminar flow over the fin. That takes a
    little getting used to, and will cause the end user (like
    me :) to get fixated on how to move that "warm cloud" as
    quickly as possible to the exhaust fan.

    You should check the compatibility page Zalman provides,
    as some of their lists are "positive" ones (listed board is
    compatible) while other lists are "negative" ones (listed
    boards are not compatible). The one spec that cannot be
    guaranteed by Zalman, is the clearance from the top edge
    of the board to the PSU. On my P4C800-E Deluxe, there is
    no issue, as my socket is centered on the motherboard. The
    A7N8X is a "top edge" motherboard, and will need 10mm
    clearance from the top edge of the board to the metal housing
    of the PSU. Failure to check for clearance in advance will
    lead to fins hitting the PSU. (The way to obtain the
    clearance number, is to take the picture of your motherboard
    into Photoshop, and use the spacing of the holes on the
    ZIF socket as a ruler, then measure where a 55mm radius takes
    you, from the center of the processor die. On the A7N8X, I
    believe it is 10mm outside the bounds of the motherboard
    PCB.)

    In terms of peoples installation experience with the Zalman,
    it varies depending on socket. The various adapters are more
    or less convenient, depending on socket. The S478 aluminum
    arms make installation a breeze, but owners of other socket
    types may curse this HSF.

    The Zalman web site doesn't have any info on how much power
    the fan draws. The Fanmate controller is rated at six watts,
    implying 0.5A max current. I have actually measured my fan
    using an ammeter, and without the Fanmate, running from
    +12V, the fan draws 0.41 amps. Check that number against
    the fan header current rating. I recommend running without
    the Fanmate.

    If you post again, post the room temp, case air temp (a.k.a
    motherboard sensor temperature), and the CPU temperature,
    so we have some idea how good your case and your HSF are
    doing. Keep notes yourself, so you can see just how much
    improvement you are getting from the Zalman. The Zalman
    cannot do its job, unless there is a good air flow through
    the case to move the "warm cloud".

    HTH,
    Paul
     
    Paul, Aug 12, 2004
    #8
  9. Mark G.

    Michael-NC Guest

    Wow, that's a tuff one. 85F is 30C which should give you a case temp of 38
    or 39C. You're going to need a _lot_ of air moving over your CPU and then
    out of the case. Perhaps a little ducting is in order. If you can set up a
    high speed 120mm fan with a duct near the HSF on the CPU and drive that hot
    air out of the case, that may help. My case has mounts for 4 80mm in front
    and one 80mm fan in the back and I use them all, you might consider putting
    in a blow hole in the top of your case and mounting a high CFM fan in it as
    well. I'd forget about going with a quiet fan solution and just get one that
    overclockers favor.
     
    Michael-NC, Aug 12, 2004
    #9
  10. Mark G.

    Mark G. Guest

    Got the Zalman 7000A. Will be installing it in a bit. Will let you know it
    works if interested. Heard some other good things about it and apparently
    they are a popular buy at Fry's by my house.
     
    Mark G., Aug 13, 2004
    #10
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