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HELP: Case fan shroud for P4, suck or blow?

Discussion in 'Overclocking' started by theosib, Feb 11, 2006.

  1. theosib

    theosib Guest

    I see lots of discussions about CPU fans, but not case fan shrouds for
    the CPU. I have a P4, and the fan that came with it appears to blow
    towards the heat sink. I have a case with a side fan and a shroud that
    fits right over the CPU. In this case, it seems to be oriented to suck
    air out of the case, opposite the direction of the CPU fan.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me when you have two fans trying to
    move air in opposite directions, especially when they're confined to
    each other by a shroud, that you're not going to get very good air flow
    and heat exchange. Should I reverse the fan? Or should I remove the
    shroud?

    I would guess that the biggest problem with making the fan blow inward
    is that it would suck more dust in and blow it right onto the CPU where
    it ultimately clogs up the heat sink fins.

    Any ideas?

    Thanks.
     
    theosib, Feb 11, 2006
    #1
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  2. theosib

    Caporali Guest

    You always want the fans to blow cool air in..... some cases come with
    filters that prevent dust or pet hair from getting in your system......
    but regardless, you are going to want to remove your side panel ever
    couple of months and blow out the innards with a can of compressed air.
    Personally, I just completely remove shrouds as the tend to get in the
    way and hinder cooling more than help. There are severla other
    components in your system that need to be cooled, and a shroud keeps
    cool/fresh air from them, and sometimes blocks your cases exhaust fan,
    disrupting the flow of the case
    If you found this helpful, or need more help, check out my site:
    HardwareLogic.com
    http://hardwarelogic.com/
    We are a site dedicated to helping people build, maintain, and upgrade
    their own systems through in depth and honest reviews, how to guides,
    and super friendly forums.
    We are a completely free, and a spam free site....if you get the
    chance, check it out. If you need help with anything, or just want to
    join our forums, please do...the more the merrier.

    HardwareLogic Forums
    http://hardwarelogic.com/forums/
    If you like what we have to offer, please stick around and
    contribute....help others solve their issues and make good buying
    decisions.
     
    Caporali, Feb 15, 2006
    #2
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  3. theosib

    Phil Weldon Guest

    'Caporali' wrote, in part:
    | You always want the fans to blow cool air in.....
    _____

    No.

    Phil Weldon

    | You always want the fans to blow cool air in..... some cases come with
    | filters that prevent dust or pet hair from getting in your system......
    | but regardless, you are going to want to remove your side panel ever
    | couple of months and blow out the innards with a can of compressed air.
    | Personally, I just completely remove shrouds as the tend to get in the
    | way and hinder cooling more than help. There are severla other
    | components in your system that need to be cooled, and a shroud keeps
    | cool/fresh air from them, and sometimes blocks your cases exhaust fan,
    | disrupting the flow of the case
    | If you found this helpful, or need more help, check out my site:
    | HardwareLogic.com
    | http://hardwarelogic.com/
    | We are a site dedicated to helping people build, maintain, and upgrade
    | their own systems through in depth and honest reviews, how to guides,
    | and super friendly forums.
    | We are a completely free, and a spam free site....if you get the
    | chance, check it out. If you need help with anything, or just want to
    | join our forums, please do...the more the merrier.
    |
    | HardwareLogic Forums
    | http://hardwarelogic.com/forums/
    | If you like what we have to offer, please stick around and
    | contribute....help others solve their issues and make good buying
    | decisions.
    |
     
    Phil Weldon, Feb 15, 2006
    #3
  4. theosib

    theosib Guest

    Mr. Weldon,

    I was wondering if I could ask you to elaborate on your comment a bit.
    I am aware that casefans in the front are usually made to blow in,
    while ones in the back are usually made to blow out. But this is a
    side fan. On this one Antec case I have, the fan blows out, but there
    is no shroud. On this new case with the shroud, the fan also blows
    out, and that doesn't make much sense to me.
     
    theosib, Feb 15, 2006
    #4
  5. theosib

    Caporali Guest

    Well, my bad for not clarifying my comments enough (I guess). Your case
    will have a "nastural" air flow, from front to rear.....don't change
    those fans. Most cases have their exhaust in the rear, and/or on
    top....this is because hot air rises, and the rear is where all the
    heat generating parts are.
    I personally recommend using the shroud to suck cool air in directly
    over the CPU, this should have the greatest effect as it is drawing
    the cool air directly to the processor
     
    Caporali, Feb 16, 2006
    #5
  6. theosib

    Phil Weldon Guest

    'theosib' wrote, in part:
    | I am aware that casefans in the front are usually made to blow in,
    | while ones in the back are usually made to blow out. But this is a
    | side fan. On this one Antec case I have, the fan blows out, but there
    | is no shroud. On this new case with the shroud, the fan also blows
    | out, and that doesn't make much sense to me.
    _____

    I am not completely clear on what you mean by the shroud, but I can give you
    some general observations.

    While a CPU heatsink CAN be designed for a particular air flow direction, in
    most cases the performance depends VERY little on direction used.

    For case ventilation, there are two requirements:
    sufficient air flow
    air flow distributed around each heat generating component.

    As for dust, particles in the ambient air will enter the system case no
    matter which direction the case fans blow; either in through fans that blow
    in or in through the vents and cracks for fans that blow out. If your
    system generates more heat that average, you will need more or larger fans.
    Dust is best controlled if a slight positive pressure is kept within the
    case, and filters are placed over all the air intake fans. Some fans can
    blow out, but as long as there is a slight positive pressure then air will
    not enter vents or cracks. One thing you can do to satisify yourselve about
    your cooling solution is to measure air temperatures in various areas inside
    your case and also measure component temperatures. A remote reading digital
    thermometer with a thermistor on a cable can make both types of
    measurements. RadioShack has suitable Indoor/Outdoor digital thermometers
    for less than $20 US.

    If a case fan is in line with the CPU heat sink/fan, both should be blowing
    in the same direction; if not, then change the fan orientations to blow in
    the same direction; IN toward the heatsink/fan for the case fan, IN toward
    the heatsink for the CPU heatsink/fan.

    My main experimental system has two rear 80 mm fans blowing in, two 80 mm
    power supply fans blowing out, and a side 120 mm fan blowing directly into
    the CPU heatsink/fan (also blowing in) video card slot and memory slot area.
    The three case fans blowing in each have a simple electrostatic filter (a
    mesh of nylon fishing line.)

    Phil Weldon


    |
    | Phil Weldon wrote:
    | > 'Caporali' wrote, in part:
    | > | You always want the fans to blow cool air in.....
    | > _____
    | >
    | > No.
    | >
    | > Phil Weldon
    |
    | Mr. Weldon,
    |
    | I was wondering if I could ask you to elaborate on your comment a bit.
    | I am aware that casefans in the front are usually made to blow in,
    | while ones in the back are usually made to blow out. But this is a
    | side fan. On this one Antec case I have, the fan blows out, but there
    | is no shroud. On this new case with the shroud, the fan also blows
    | out, and that doesn't make much sense to me.
    |
    |
     
    Phil Weldon, Feb 16, 2006
    #6
  7. theosib

    ~misfit~ Guest

    What a crock of shit. I have a "shroud" that I made myself for my XP1800+
    CPU (1.5GHz / 133Mhz FSB original spec) that's currently running at 2.1GHz
    on a 200MHz FSB with a full-load die temp of 48°C. In summer in the North
    Island of New Zealand. Without the "shroud" (I call it a duct) the CPU was
    hitting above 60°C.
    Not in the slightest, in fact quite the contrary.
    No.
     
    ~misfit~, Feb 19, 2006
    #7
  8. theosib

    ~misfit~ Guest

    No, it doesn't really make sense. Turn the fan around to blow in onto the
    CPU fan. I also suggest that you fit a fan at the rear blowing out if there
    is a place for it. Fans are cheap and can make your expensive components
    last longer. It wouldn't hurt to put a fan in front blowing air in over your
    HDD too if you can. That would be two in and two out (counting the PSU
    fan/s).

    My current main case (Xaser III) has a total of 10 fans in it (counting
    chipset, CPU, PSU and GPU fans) and everything is nice and cool. Quiet too
    as some are variable speed fans, some are low-speed and others are running
    on 7v.

    Good luck.
     
    ~misfit~, Feb 19, 2006
    #8
  9. theosib

    Caporali Guest

    WTF is your problem troll. first of all, you are an idiot.... how is
    anything you say relevant to the conversation.
    I believe ihe is talking about those shrouds that come pre-installed,
    like on the antec cases. these seldom line up with aftermaket heat
    sinks, impeed the rear exhaust, and can be a bugger to work with.
    Speaking of buggering, head back out to the field and bugger a sheep. I
    absolutely hate people like you, who have no clue what they are talking
    about, simply talk crap, and further confuse people simply looking for
    help.
     
    Caporali, Feb 20, 2006
    #9
  10. theosib

    Caporali Guest

    ?Well, my bad for not clarifying my comments enough (I guess). Your
    case
    will have a "natural" air flow, from front to rear.....don't change
    those fans. Most cases have their exhaust in the rear, and/or on
    top....this is because hot air rises, and the rear is where all the
    heat generating parts are.
    I personally recommend using the shroud to suck cool air in directly
    over the CPU, this should have the greatest effect as it is drawing
    the cool air directly to the processor"

    BTW Misfit, here is the part of my post you "forgot". I don't like to
    blast people, but people like you really set me off.
     
    Caporali, Feb 20, 2006
    #10
  11. theosib

    Phil Weldon Guest

    'Caporali' wrote, in part:
    | I absolutely hate people like you, who have no clue
    | what they are talking about,
    ______
    For some new to the forum, you are mighty quick to cry troll. Especially in
    a post that an egregious flame. Perhaps if you lurked a bit more, offered
    some helpful suggestions, and THEN mentioned your site... A.C.H.O. is a
    technical newsgroup of long standing, and it certainly could use more
    contributions. But, as you may have noticed, quite a lot of its content
    appears, uncredited, in various websites. And, as you may not have noticed,
    A.C.H.O. has had only one flamer this year - you., who found it necessary to
    use
    troll
    idiot
    buggering
    bugger a sheep
    hate
    no clue
    crap
    all in one short post.

    Phil Weldon

    | WTF is your problem troll. first of all, you are an idiot.... how is
    | anything you say relevant to the conversation.
    | I believe ihe is talking about those shrouds that come pre-installed,
    | like on the antec cases. these seldom line up with aftermaket heat
    | sinks, impeed the rear exhaust, and can be a bugger to work with.
    | Speaking of buggering, head back out to the field and bugger a sheep. I
    | absolutely hate people like you, who have no clue what they are talking
    | about, simply talk crap, and further confuse people simply looking for
    | help.
    |
     
    Phil Weldon, Feb 20, 2006
    #11
  12. theosib

    Caporali Guest

    I call you troll because I went around and looked at your other posts
    (searching by name) and found that you basically go around spewing crap
    at everyone. Your post had no relevance to the topic, you picked and
    choosed a couple of things i said, then used them out of
    context......then, you crap on me and my site...
    As for content, I've seen more bad advice here in the last week then
    I've seen most places on the net.
    I just came here to let people know about a site I created to help
    people. I'm trying to build a community of friendly people who know
    what they are talking about, who want nothing more to help. I'm not
    making money doing this as its my hobby, and will never take money.
    It just cracks me up that I try to help someone, and some guy who makes
    a habit of trolling the forums wants to cry because someone called him
    out
     
    Caporali, Feb 20, 2006
    #12
  13. theosib

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Then shoo, fly.
    It's called "spamming" if you do it more than once.
    You seem a little confused troll. That doesn't surprise me one bit though,
    anyone lacking the brains to quote or even name the person he's attacking
    (so much for building a community of "friendly people") is obviously unfit
    to advise anyone on anything.

    BTW, if you're talking about me, (even though you're replying to Phil) I've
    never posted to a "forum" yet. Maybe you should learn the difference between
    a Newsgroup and a Web forum?

    Go back to your friendly forum and give people bad advice, we're doing just
    fine thanks.
     
    ~misfit~, Feb 25, 2006
    #13
  14. theosib

    Rattler Guest

    Rattler, Feb 26, 2006
    #14
  15. theosib

    Caporali Guest

    I didn't see anywhere where anyone said you want ALL fans blowing in. I
    think Misfit, in his incredibly stupid ranting, just blew this whole
    thread completely out of proportion and either completely
    misunderstood what i said, or just ignored it so he could crap on
    people like he usually does.
     
    Caporali, Feb 27, 2006
    #15
  16. theosib

    Phil Weldon Guest

    'Caporali' wrote, in part:
    | I didn't see anywhere where anyone said you want ALL fans blowing in.
    _____

    Please understand that your posting behavior is not appreciated. Try to
    limit your comments to useful contributions.

    In fact, all case ventilation fans blowing in is perfectly workable. And
    that arrangement goes directly to the original posters question about dust.

    Phil Weldon

    |I didn't see anywhere where anyone said you want ALL fans blowing in. I
    | think Misfit, in his incredibly stupid ranting, just blew this whole
    | thread completely out of proportion and either completely
    | misunderstood what i said, or just ignored it so he could crap on
    | people like he usually does.
    |
     
    Phil Weldon, Feb 27, 2006
    #16
  17. theosib

    Caporali Guest

    How is it my "posting behavior" is not appreciated.....but its
    perfectly appropriate for Misfit to continously post what he has?
    Something just fundamentally wrong with that.....
    BTW, the original posters question had to do with air flow from a
    shroud.....to which I simply told him you want that blowing in to
    provide the coolest air possible to the processor. I also said that he
    should take some compressed air once a month or so and blow out his
    case......then you and your bitch Misfit started thread crapping.
    You might want to go back over the thread and see who was trying to
    help, and who was simply being an asshole, not that it matters much.....
     
    Caporali, Feb 27, 2006
    #17
  18. theosib

    Andrew Bell Guest

    This is best to have one fan sucking air in from the front where there is no
    heat been generated and then fans sucking out to the back ........ this
    creates a constant airflow...... work it out draw diagrams think logical....
    air in > air out

    not air in > air in > air in this is because the air will get hot if theres
    no where for it to get out :)

    hope this helps
     
    Andrew Bell, Mar 4, 2006
    #18
  19. theosib

    Caporali Guest

    Look, like Andrew said, draw some diagrams if you can't picture it in
    your mind.
    Most every case has an intake and an exhaust port (intake usually in
    the front, exhaust usually in the back.
    A lot of newer cases are featuring blow holes on top (pushing hot air
    ourt the top since hot air rises), and side panel shrouds that draw
    fresh air in directly over the HSF of your processor, making sure it
    gets the coolest air possible.
    The problem with some of these shrouds, a lot actually, id that they
    are more of a hinderance than a help. Most don't accomadate aftermarket
    cooling solutions, ansd some actually block the cases exhaust port
    (Look at most of the cases Antec released in 2005, while great cases,
    most people found the side panel shroud to be more of a problem than
    its worth).
    Its not wrth sitting here trying to argue with guys like Misfit (look
    him up, and see his typical posting behavior around these boards).
    check out any good revuiew site, ask in their forums to get an idea
    from people who know what they are talking about.
     
    Caporali, Apr 1, 2006
    #19
  20. theosib

    ~misfit~ Guest

    wrote:

    Wow!! Great spelling and punctuation.

    "guys like Misfit" get results like this:

    http://test.internet-webmaster.de/upload/1143211124.jpg

    from a desktop AMD XP2500+ CPU in a 26°C room and can easilly clock that CPU
    to much higher speeds if I were to feed it the default vcore of 1.65V
    instead of the 1.5V it's getting now. It goes even higher if I raise vcore
    instead of dropping it. All at manageable temps.

    Show us a screenie of your system with MBM5, CPU-Z and Prime95 running
    Caporali. Show us that you know what you're talking about.
     
    ~misfit~, Apr 2, 2006
    #20
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