Hitachi hts424030m9at00

Discussion in 'Dell' started by Deodiaus, Jul 29, 2009.

  1. Deodiaus

    Happy Oyster Guest


    There is quite a lot insane in the construction AND the descriptions of the MBR
    stuff.

    Many - if not most - tools do not tell you what they REALLY are doing. A big
    problem is that you do not know if they write onto the very first sector of the
    HDD or to the first sector of the first partition.

    PC-DOS 7, when formatting a HDD with /S parameter being set, overwrites the
    first sector of the HDD, at least it seems this is what it did yesterday to one
    of my computers. I had to use a bootable GRUB DVD to boot into the Linux
    partition and rewrite the MBR with a valid partition table. PC-DOS 7 had smashed
    that...
     
    Happy Oyster, Aug 13, 2009
    #61
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  2. Deodiaus

    Paul Guest

    The problem could be, that not all media does it the same way, and
    that might lead to confusion.

    For example, if you look at the first sector displayed in this article,
    there is no partition table. The boot stuff takes the whole first sector.
    I guess this is an MSDOS boot floppy.

    http://www.infocellar.com/cd/boot-cd.htm

    Yet, if I use a copy of "dd" and read out the first sector of my current
    boot hard drive, I see something closer to what is shown in Wikipedia.

    http://www.chrysocome.net/dd

    At offset 0x1BE of my first sector, I see evidence of room for four
    partition entries. I have two FAT32 partitions, and I can see two bytes
    with 0x0C in them. I have one NTFS partition as the third partition,
    and the corresponding byte in that 16 byte record is 0x07. Since I
    have no fourth primary partition, there is a group of 0x00 bytes
    at the end. Then, there is the 0x55 and 0xaa at the very end.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mbr

    So at least on my hard drive, there is room for four 16 byte entries,
    after the boot code.

    In terms of text strings in the first 512 bytes, I can see

    Invalid partition table
    Error loading operating system
    Missing operating system

    and unless I'm missing it, I don't see any reference to IO.sys or
    MSDOS.sys.

    What I can't tell you, is what wrote that sector. I've kinda
    lost track.

    If you want to play with "dd", the tool is available here.
    To copy my first sector, the command looks like this. Be
    careful with this tool, as you can do a lot of damage with
    it, if you make a syntax error. "dd --list" can be used to
    dump the names of your storage devices.

    dd if=\\?\Device\Harddisk0\Partition0 of=c:\first.bin bs=512 count=1

    "Partition0" is a shorthand for "the whole disk", effectively treating
    Harddisk0 as a "raw" device. So it is not a partition at all. If I said
    "Partition1", that would refer to the first partition on the disk.

    The block size and count fields, control the length of transfer, so I
    only get a copy of the first sector. The output file "of=" in this case,
    is an ordinary file. Using a hex editor later, that is how I can look
    at the 512 bytes I've captured.

    To compare some of the info in the 64 byte section at the end, I used
    the freely downloadable PTEDIT32.exe, but there are probably other ways
    to do that as well. PTEDIT32 displays the four primary partition entries,
    and is how I can confirm the file systems are 0x0c, 0x0c, 0x07.

    ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/tools/pq/utilities/PTEDIT32.zip

    Because my first partition starts at CHS 0,1,1, that means
    there are some sectors empty before my C: partition. That is addressed
    near the end of this article.

    http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/partbkgd.htm

    Paul
     
    Paul, Aug 13, 2009
    #62
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  3. Deodiaus

    Tony Harding Guest

    I think the value of the data is what's paramount in this case, not the
    value of the laptop. Only the OP knows that.
     
    Tony Harding, Aug 13, 2009
    #63
  4. Deodiaus

    BillW50 Guest

    In Barry Watzman typed on Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:12:34 -0400:
    Not so! It is just the opposite actually. As you are confusing the boot
    sector with the MBR. And there are often no MBR code on a non-bootable
    drive, such as a data drive. And it is easy for me to tell if there is a
    MBR or not just simply by trying to boot from it. I've done this
    zillions of times and I am absolutely sure of it.

    If you still don't believe me, here see for yourself with a disk editor.
    Here is a non-bootable flash drive looking at the first sector. I pulled
    it out from my Fuji digital camera.

    Offset(h) 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F

    00000000 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00000010 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00000020 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00000030 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00000040 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00000050 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00000060 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00000070 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00000080 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00000090 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    000000A0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    000000B0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    000000C0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    000000D0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    000000E0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    000000F0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00000100 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00000110 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00000120 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00000130 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00000140 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00000150 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00000160 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00000170 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00000180 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00000190 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    000001A0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    000001B0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 40 54 C1 21 00 00 80 01
    000001C0 18 00 01 07 60 F3 37 00 00 00 C9 F3 01 00 00 00
    000001D0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    000001E0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    000001F0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 55 AA

    As you can see, all of the MBR code is all nulled out. The only thing it
    contains is the disk signature (40,54,C1, 21) and the partition info.
    And DOS, Windows, Linux, etc. is perfectly happy with this. It just
    won't boot, but totally ok as a data drive.

    Here below is an example of a boot sector which contains MBR code. This
    example is a flash drive which boots up BartPE. But I also use it as a
    data drive too. You can think of it as a mini Windows on drive C.

    Offset(h) 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F

    000000000 33 C0 8E D0 BC 00 7C FB 50 07 50 1F FC BE 1B 7C
    000000010 BF 1B 06 50 57 B9 E5 01 F3 A4 CB BD BE 07 B1 04
    000000020 38 6E 00 7C 09 75 13 83 C5 10 E2 F4 CD 18 8B F5
    000000030 83 C6 10 49 74 19 38 2C 74 F6 A0 B5 07 B4 07 8B
    000000040 F0 AC 3C 00 74 FC BB 07 00 B4 0E CD 10 EB F2 88
    000000050 4E 10 E8 46 00 73 2A FE 46 10 80 7E 04 0B 74 0B
    000000060 80 7E 04 0C 74 05 A0 B6 07 75 D2 80 46 02 06 83
    000000070 46 08 06 83 56 0A 00 E8 21 00 73 05 A0 B6 07 EB
    000000080 BC 81 3E FE 7D 55 AA 74 0B 80 7E 10 00 74 C8 A0
    000000090 B7 07 EB A9 8B FC 1E 57 8B F5 CB BF 05 00 8A 56
    0000000A0 00 B4 08 CD 13 72 23 8A C1 24 3F 98 8A DE 8A FC
    0000000B0 43 F7 E3 8B D1 86 D6 B1 06 D2 EE 42 F7 E2 39 56
    0000000C0 0A 77 23 72 05 39 46 08 73 1C EB 1A 90 BB 00 7C
    0000000D0 8B 4E 02 8B 56 00 CD 13 73 51 4F 74 4E 32 E4 8A
    0000000E0 56 00 CD 13 EB E4 8A 56 00 60 BB AA 55 B4 41 CD
    0000000F0 13 72 36 81 FB 55 AA 75 30 F6 C1 01 74 2B 61 60
    000000100 6A 00 6A 00 FF 76 0A FF 76 08 6A 00 68 00 7C 6A
    000000110 01 6A 10 B4 42 8B F4 CD 13 61 61 73 0E 4F 74 0B
    000000120 32 E4 8A 56 00 CD 13 EB D6 61 F9 C3 49 6E 76 61
    000000130 6C 69 64 20 70 61 72 74 69 74 69 6F 6E 20 74 61
    000000140 62 6C 65 00 45 72 72 6F 72 20 6C 6F 61 64 69 6E
    000000150 67 20 6F 70 65 72 61 74 69 6E 67 20 73 79 73 74
    000000160 65 6D 00 4D 69 73 73 69 6E 67 20 6F 70 65 72 61
    000000170 74 69 6E 67 20 73 79 73 74 65 6D 00 00 00 00 00
    000000180 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    000000190 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    0000001A0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    0000001B0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 05 BA 05 BA 00 00 80 01
    0000001C0 01 00 0C FE FF FF 3F 00 00 00 BC 1D E5 01 00 00
    0000001D0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    0000001E0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    0000001F0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 55 AA

    As you can clearly see, this one contains MBR code while the first
    example does not. And it is indeed bootable. This is clear evidence that
    I do indeed know what I am talking about. As I see this all of the time.

    HINT: If you clone a Windows partition under Windows, Windows will
    remember that cloned partition's disk signature. Thus when you try to
    boot from the clone, it gets confused with the drive letters and this
    clone will fail to boot. The trick is changing the disk signature, so
    Windows doesn't recognizes it and then all is well again. <grin>
     
    BillW50, Aug 13, 2009
    #64
  5. Deodiaus

    BillW50 Guest

    In Happy Oyster typed on Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:30:33 +0100:
    This is actually very easy to deal with. Either change the disk
    signature or use a Windows 98 Startup disk and use FDISK /MBR, which
    resets the disk signature.
     
    BillW50, Aug 13, 2009
    #65
  6. Deodiaus

    BillW50 Guest

    In Happy Oyster typed on Wed, 12 Aug 2009 01:10:30 +0100:
    And you are fine with one Linux stomping on another Linux install, eh?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    However, you don't need to be dual booting with Windows to court
    disaster. Dual booting with several versions of GNU/Linux can lead to
    boot problems too. At best, only one version will boot-or worse, none
    and you may find yourself googling furiously to understand terse and
    cryptic GRUB error messages. Sometimes, boot sectors (including
    partition tables) can just get corrupted for no discernable reason at
    all. Whatever the reason, you need to prepare for all eventualities as
    GRUB (GRand Universal Bootloader) does not make a copy of the MBR during
    installation.

    http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/backing_up_your_master_boot_record

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     
    BillW50, Aug 13, 2009
    #66
  7. Hi!
    I always change the Start Menu settings so that it shows up there.
    That's the trick!
    On Windows NT family products, you can get a 4GB FAT16 partition, as
    the rules can be "bent" to a certain extent.

    Why anyone would do that today is beyond me (unless, of course, they
    are using an older version of Windows with an old disk). That's to say
    nothing of the waste of storage space due to poor file system
    efficiency.

    I found a Quantum 4.5GB Fireball hard drive the other day that has
    barely seen any use. The SMART hour counter reports that it has been
    turned on for a total of six hours! It only had about four power
    cycles on the record as well. I can't imagine why someone paid for
    that drive and never used it.

    William
     
    William R. Walsh, Aug 13, 2009
    #67
  8. Deodiaus

    Happy Oyster Guest

    No. If you take the HDD into another Windows computer, it messes up the
    signature stuff etc. If you put the HDD back in the original computer the
    signature stuff etc is manipulated and will led to trouble with the old OS which
    claims that THIS is not ITS HDD anymore.
     
    Happy Oyster, Aug 13, 2009
    #68
  9. Deodiaus

    Happy Oyster Guest

    The problem is even worse. Those idiots who make the update stuff online, are so
    braindead that they change things in the installation which will lead to a
    kernel reorganization - which will lead to programs (like VMware) being unable
    to run, because their base part in the kernel is ruined.

    Another fine joke by the idiots is to - by the means of the automatic online
    updating - spoil the GRUB entries.


    To avoid the automatic update is a MUST!
     
    Happy Oyster, Aug 13, 2009
    #69
  10. Deodiaus

    BillW50 Guest

    In Happy Oyster typed on Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:29:09 +0100:
    I have added removable drives on many Windows system and even IDE drives
    set as cable select or slave and I never had seen this behavior. Or are
    you talking about swapping boot/system drives among different computers?
    If the latter, you screw them up pretty badly do to the wrong driver
    set. Although if the machines are the same, you should have no problems.
    I do that all of the time with my two Gateways and then with my 5 Asus
    netbooks.

    Oddly enough the Gateway MX6124 and the Asus EeePCs also uses the same
    Intel chipset and video card. Might be close enough to restore one on to
    the other without a problem. In fact, I should try that someday. It will
    only take about 20 minutes to restore a copy to find out. <grin>
     
    BillW50, Aug 13, 2009
    #70
  11. Deodiaus

    BillW50 Guest

    In Happy Oyster typed on Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:34:01 +0100:
    Yeah I am not a big fan of automatic updates either. I usually test them
    first on test machines and I am usually not that pleased with them
    generally.
     
    BillW50, Aug 13, 2009
    #71
  12. Deodiaus

    BillW50 Guest

    In BillW50 typed on Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:47:56 -0500:
    Nope it didn't work. Windows XP when attempting to boot, rebooted the
    machine at this point repeatedly. Maybe I should try Paragon's Adaptive
    Restore. Which is supposed to move Windows and applications to a
    different machine and I might give that a shot. <grin>
     
    BillW50, Aug 13, 2009
    #72
  13. Deodiaus

    Happy Oyster Guest

    A computer is a tool. On such a tool we depend. Many ran into terrible problems
    when they - at the very last moment - tried to print their study work for
    graduation in university ... and that M$ crap spoiled not only the printout but
    the whole file they had worked on for months or years.

    A computer is not toy, it is a tool which, if it fails, can have desastrous
    consequences for us. The damage IN NO WAY can be compensated by some few bucks
    of, say, the price tag in the shop.

    Year for year the damage caused by miserable software is billions of dollars.
     
    Happy Oyster, Aug 13, 2009
    #73
  14. Deodiaus

    Happy Oyster Guest

    Each time I try that some braindead idiot on the Linux side smashes it.

    There is one of these "automagical" mysteries the Linux folks are so proud of
    which each time resets my manual change...

    I hate machines which think.
     
    Happy Oyster, Aug 14, 2009
    #74
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