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Discussion in 'Embedded' started by Smita, Mar 20, 2006.

  1. If you have to 'teach' 4-10 times more students it is easier to setup courses
    where somebody stands at the front and talks to large numbers, than if it
    involves field trips, labs, workshops and other equipment and procedures.
    All of these make for easier teaching as for media studies they watch the
    TV, listen to the radio and surf the internet as part of their studies.
    Very little cost to the university.
    Actually I would class them as further education - C&GLI, BTEC vocational
    courses after O levels.
    Lots more willing customers to get loans through life from the political
    party funding machine which includes financial 'institutions'.

    More should be doing vocational training, but then again most of the
    Technical colleges are being swallowed up as pseudo universities for the
    'prestige' of the senior staff and ability to asess their own papers. Along
    with charging much more for courses.

    It is geting to the stage that quite a few employers are seeing which
    institute the degree OR vocational qualification was taken at to see if
    they will recognise the qualification.
    Paul Carpenter, Mar 24, 2006
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  2. Smita

    Nobody Here Guest

    Yeah, I meant it *would* be an unsustainable burden if they were to be
    funded like we were.
    I'm not sure media studies or the people who study it have had much
    to do with any of that. Engineers and scientists and industrialists
    have done all that - it's just technology. I'm not sure why we want
    people to study it!

    I'm perhaps being a little harsh on media studies, because I guess we
    do need people to work in the media (or do we?) but it's often seen as
    a catch-all "general studies let's hope I getb a job with this degree"
    type of course.
    Do 30% of *good* students drop out, or 30% of *all* students? And I
    wonder how many of the debt collection agencies ex-students are the
    ones that chose dog-grooming?
    He. That's explain why there's no longer any parking within a mile of
    the university I went to compared with spaces on the street outside the
    department when I was there? I don't think it's crippling, I'm not
    suggesting it's easy, but the very fact that many or most of them cope
    with it suggests it's manageable. Part of the problem, I believe, is
    that many of them what it all now and resent that they have to work
    for it. They can't see that the investment they're making now is of
    benefit to them in the future.
    Oh I'm not sure that's related to loans, though, that's common wherever
    in the world you look. It's the same in the States where as far as I
    am aware the funding regime hasn't changed.
    Hang on, it was 5-10K a couple of paragraphs back. :)

    Nevertheless, tha fact that so many people are going to university and
    completing their courses must mean that the debt is managable if you
    manage it properly. If you can't manage it properly, perhaps you
    shouldn't be there in the first place? I don't suggest it's easy,
    but then passing electromag theory in my second year wasn't easy, either,
    and they seem to have solved that sort of problem by taking away all the
    hard courses because it's not good for the universities' bottom lines
    if too many students find it too hard - but that's another rant for
    another day ;-)
    Nobody Here, Mar 25, 2006
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  3. Smita

    Nobody Here Guest

    Actually, I didn't really make clear that I do think there is a place
    for pet grooming (I suppose?), but it's a vocational course, and should
    be sold as that.
    Quite. That wasn't the start of the problem, but it was a big leap
    into it when the polys became universities. Part of a program that made
    people with vocational trades feel like second class citizens because
    they didn't have a degree. So now even your dog groomer needs a BSc!
    Nobody Here, Mar 25, 2006
  4. Apart from the traditional problem that no employer wants to employ
    anyone more component than the employer, there are often real problem
    in employing people with high theoretical grades.

    Often these person are incapable of doing any "real" work e.g. with
    current chips. Unless you have a sufficiently large organisation, such
    people with good qualifications but with zero practical experience are
    a real hazard e.g. when high voltages are around.

    Paul Keinanen, Mar 25, 2006
  5. Smita

    Chris Hills Guest

    Its is not correct. Those who manage it are those with money or on a lot
    of grants. It the very poor or very rich. The average "middle class" is
    penalised from both sides. So the prerequisite for attending University
    is good financial management. My how things have changed. It is now a
    place business and commerce not education, enlightenment ad discovery.
    As for having fun and parties......

    I have a son at university and consequently have talked with many
    involved. University is not the Great Place it once was. they are as
    worried about the debts as the courses. Having fun and learning about
    the good things in life seems to have taken very much a back seat to
    managing debt.
    The problems we are discussing has NOTHING to do with the quality of the
    course. Also there are many brilliant kids who would have survived at
    university previously who are not making it toady simply because of the
    financial problems.

    As I say I have seen this over the last couple of years with my sons
    friends from a wide range of subjects and backgrounds. The attrition
    rate for non- academic reasons is appalling. Most of this is down to the
    current governments attempts at Social Engineering
    Chris Hills, Mar 26, 2006
  6. I'm not convinced that it's all down to Government.

    The employers must take some of the blaim demanding
    degree qualifications for jobs that don't require them
    to save them the bother of training staff.

    tim \(in sweden\), Mar 26, 2006
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