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How to embedd native storage protocoles in h/w appliance?

Discussion in 'Embedded' started by rohit, Sep 10, 2006.

  1. rohit

    rohit Guest

    Dear All,

    (Note: I am a newbie to embedded system programming (hardware
    programming), so forgive me if it seems a silly query.)

    I need to develop a hardware appliance that will be deployed in the
    data path between clients and the storage device (for eg. harddisk).
    This hardware box should be able to understand the native storage
    protocol (eg. SCSI) over which it is travelling , get the data, perform
    some operations on the data (eg. mangle the data) and send forward to
    the harddisk.

    So my query is:
    1) How to get started for developing such hardware appliance ? Do we
    need to program the logic for it in ASSEMBLY language and burn it into
    the eeprom ? Or there are some alternative methods to achieve the same?

    2) What are the possible tools available for such types of hardware
    programming ?

    3) Basically, I need to embedded the protocol specification into my
    hardware. Is that practically feasible ? Or I am going in the wrong
    direction. Please guide.

    Any pointers, references, comments will be of great help.

    Thanks and Regards,
    Rohit Dhamija
     
    rohit, Sep 10, 2006
    #1
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  2. rohit

    Jack Klein Guest

    The first question that I need to ask is what is your definition of a
    "hardware appliance"?

    Most hardware appliances today have one or more processors in them
    (microprocessor, microcontroller, DSP).

    Or do you mean that you are trying to do this all in hardware, such as
    in an FPGA?
    Is this some sort of data protection tool? Are you trying to encrypt
    on a file-by-file basis, or an a low level block basis?
    Anything that you can program in an assembly language, you can program
    in a higher level language.
    I think that your chances of getting useful answers will improve
    greatly if you provide more information about what you are trying to
    do. And what the term "hardware appliance" means to you and your
    company and your customers. Most embedded systems could be asked as
    "hardware appliances", because usually they don't operate with
    keyboards, mice, and video displays.

    There is a router on my desk that connects my computers to a cable
    modem. I imaging that most people would classify it as a "hardware
    appliance". It's only visible interface is half a dozen or so LEDs on
    its front panel. Yet it includes a 32-bit microcontroller and runs
    Linux.

    --
    Jack Klein
    Home: http://JK-Technology.Com
    FAQs for
    comp.lang.c http://c-faq.com/
    comp.lang.c++ http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/
    alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++
    http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~ajo/docs/FAQ-acllc.html
     
    Jack Klein, Sep 10, 2006
    #2
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  3. rohit

    ronf Guest

    Hi Rohit:

    In a recent post to this group I announced availability of ECI's new
    online training web portal free to engineers and others who would like
    to learn late-breaking but realistic approaches to embedded device
    design.

    One of ECI's first three lecture posts answers your question: "How to
    use native file shares on one embedded device [such as the one you wish
    to design] that actually reside on several other computers and embedded
    devices perhaps all with different operating systems and file systems?"

    Using software development tools and embedded operating systems such as
    from Green Hills or Wind River or an Embedded Linux build such as
    LynuxWorks BlueCat Linux all support the type of embedded CIFS file
    sharing technique I mention here..

    Here is a link to ECI's lecture sponsored by Visuality Systems on the
    value of using an embedded device version of CIFS (the common internet
    file system) also known as SMB (shared message blocks) - the network
    stack enhancement and popular Windows and Linux Samba standard. With
    the CIFS component, an embedded device can share and/or access native
    file sharing across multiple devices, computers, and file systems:

    http://www.embeddedcomponents.com/marketplace/makers/visualitynq/intro/
     
    ronf, Sep 10, 2006
    #3
  4. rohit

    Paul Gotch Guest

    SMB stood for "Server Message Block" not "Shared Message Blocks".
    Implementing CIFS is a pain as you must agree to onerous terms in order to
    get the specification from Microsoft.

    Samba was written by reverse engineering the wire protocol and even today
    the developers refuse to even look at the MS documentation for fear of IP
    contamination and future litigation by Microsoft.

    With regards to the original poster you seem to want to implement a
    bridge which does ATA-Some processing-ATA or SCSI-SomeProcessing-SCSI. You
    are unlikely to get any reasonable speed out of this without designing a
    piece of custom hardware.

    It would probably be much easier to write some kind of iSCSI proxy software.

    -p
     
    Paul Gotch, Sep 11, 2006
    #4
  5. rohit

    ronf Guest

    Oops you're right about SMB acronym Paul - thanks for that.

    However, embedded CIFS is already available as a reusable component for
    real-time operating systems - that was my point about watching ECI's
    lecture introducing this new component as a way to open up native file
    shares. I don't mean a re-write from a standards document or a skinning
    of Samba. The rewrite could take years and Samba is just too darn large
    a foot print. Not many are aware of this complex protocol being
    available now as a simple to use, reusable component for client/server
    file sharing.

    iSCSI could be an interesting approach to consider too - depending on
    the design details.

    Ron
     
    ronf, Sep 11, 2006
    #5
  6. rohit

    rohit Guest

    Hi Jack,

    Let me try to answer your queries:
    -----Comments:
    Yes, I need to do all this in hardware. I need to develop my own peice
    of hardware (or get the basic h/w from third party) and embedd the
    entire logic in it. This is necesssary since I donot want any software
    client to be installed in the clients or host computers which through
    which data will be coming/going.
    Comments:
    I am trying to encrypt on low level block basis. My main objective it
    that irrespective of the data that is travelling through any channel,
    my hardware should recognize it and perform necessary logic and then
    send it further.
    Comments:
    For example if I build the entire logic in C language, can it be
    directly embedded into the hardware that I built ?
    Comments:
    Please see my first comment. Hardware appliance will be a hardware box
    that will sit in the network between clients and the storage device. It
    will not be operated with any keyboard / mice. It will have LED display
    for its information. For example like a router, my device will also be
    a hardware

    I have the concept but I need to know how to get started, eg. What
    tools are required for programming in such kind of hardware.

    Any useful information in this regard is most welcome!!!

    Thanks for your precious time,
    Regards,
    Rohit Dhamija
     
    rohit, Sep 11, 2006
    #6
  7. "Need" to? Says who?

    And what's keeping you (or them) from just using the encryption that
    all reasonably modern ATA disks (and SCSI, too, I'll assume) already
    support?
    I take you don't actually plan to try to transport a physical device
    over a signal line, so let's assum you had said "travelling over it"
    instead of "over which ...". ;->
    With all due respect, if you don't even know how to start, you're far
    away from being fit for the task. You're years away from a serious
    chance to succeed.
    Books on gate arrays and ASIC design, and lots of time. Followed by a
    starter kit, a *much* smaller project to sharpen your tools on, and at
    least one year to do the job.
     
    Hans-Bernhard Broeker, Sep 11, 2006
    #7
  8. rohit

    rohit Guest

    Hi Bernhard,

    Thanks for your valuable comments. Please find my comments below:

    Query:
    Comments:
    Are these encryption mechanism also integrated into Network attached
    storages (NAS) ? I am targetting SAN/NAS envrionments.

    Query:
    Comments:
    Yes, i mean to say the same what you assumed.
    Comments:
    Thanks, donot worry I have the time and enough bandwidth to hire the
    expert resources to work with, if required.
    Comments:
    Thanks for your suggestion. Can you be some more specific ?

    I have some idea in order to build a sample pilot project for the same,
    please send your expert comments/suggestions on the same:

    Step1) The entire logic will be burnt in the hardware. We shall have to
    take the hardware with embedded OS pre installed in it - Embedded
    Linux.

    Step2) So now i can do the programming on a Linux machine and then
    port (i.e. burn) the same program logic into the hardware.

    Am I correct in this ?
    So, I intend to take 3 computer machine having Linux installed on it.
    1st computer - will act as a client
    2nd computer - will act as myhardware appliance. 2nd computer will be
    my devlopment machine. Initially it will contain logic to undersand
    SCSI protocol only.
    3rd computer - will act as Storage device.

    Please send your useful comments suggestions.
    Thanks and Regards,
    Rohit
     
    rohit, Sep 12, 2006
    #8
  9. Interesting that you didn't bother to answer my first query, about who
    decreed that this is what you "need" to do.
    They're in the harddisk themselves. So if the answer isn't yes, that
    would arguably be major oversight of the controller sitting between
    the disks and the network.
    You're being seriously unreasonable. You openly admitted that you
    have no idea what you're doing, and now you're casting your first
    decision in stone, based on --- well: what?
    No, you can't. Because the thing you're trying to build won't run
    Linux. If it ever becomes reality, it'll most probably not even have
    an ordinary CPU to start with.
     
    Hans-Bernhard Broeker, Sep 12, 2006
    #9
  10. rohit

    rohit Guest

    You're being seriously unreasonable. You openly admitted that you
    I admitted this 3 days back. You think i myself will not work on this
    idea ???
    I thought of some options and put forward the one i think is feasible.
    Why ? Any reason it cannot run on Linux ??

    Rohit
     
    rohit, Sep 13, 2006
    #10
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