I had IDE hard drive and now want to restore disc image onto new SATA drive

Discussion in 'Asus' started by Delta007bhd, Sep 14, 2010.

  1. Delta007bhd

    Delta007bhd Guest

    Hi all,

    I have an ASUS P5LD2 motherboard (http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?
    P_ID=gD1ljCkUWy1Y3yMG&content=download) and windows xp home 32bit
    installed. I had an IDE hard drive but they installed a new SATA hard
    drive in a store with a clean xp install. Now I want to place my disc
    image back onto the SATA drive. The disc image was made with acronis
    true image home 2010 and the image was taken of the old IDE drive
    (without SATA drivers). If I now restore the disc image with the
    acronis bootable rescue media, how and when do I then install the SATA
    drivers? Will the pc even boot up after the image has been restored
    since it will not have the SATA drivers yet? I've got the link to
    download drivers here above but I don't know how, when and which
    drivers to install.

    I only have one SATA drive in the computer.

    Thanks for your advise
     
    Delta007bhd, Sep 14, 2010
    #1
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  2. Delta007bhd

    Foke Guest

    You're SATA drivers are already in place, or you wouldn't be able to
    access the clean install of XP. Here's what I would do:

    - Make an image of the current XP install to an external drive.
    - Restore your old image to the new SATA drive.

    If there's a problem, you can always restore the image you made in step 1.
     
    Foke, Sep 14, 2010
    #2
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  3. Delta007bhd

    Delta007bhd Guest

    Awesome, thank you for the help? I have done what you said and the
    restore was successful! Now just because I am a curious person who
    likes to learn something new: I do not understand why the SATA drivers
    were still there. After all, when restoring the image, the entire
    partition was erased, a new one created and the image of my entire old
    IDE drive restored. So I would think that with this procedure I would
    have lost the SATA drivers, due to the fact that when my image was
    made, I didn't have any SATA drive yet and therefore no SATA drivers
    either.
     
    Delta007bhd, Sep 14, 2010
    #3
  4. Delta007bhd

    Delta007bhd Guest

    Awesome, thank you for the help! The restore was successful! Now just
    because I am a curious person who likes to learn something new: I do
    not understand why the SATA drivers were still there. After all,
    during the image restore process, the entire partition was deleted and
    a new one created onto which the image was restored. So I would think
    that I lost the SATA drivers since they were not installed at the time
    I made that image with my old drive. Or are SATA drivers installed
    directly into the BIOS perhaps? Then how come I need to reinstall my
    realtek sound drivers, IDE drivers and Gigabit LAN drivers etc every
    time after a clean install?
     
    Delta007bhd, Sep 14, 2010
    #4
  5. Delta007bhd

    Foke Guest

    SATA drivers are part of the "chipset" drivers that are normally installed
    during any system build, including your last system. The chipset of your
    motherboard (Intel 945P+ICH7R) supports SATA, so when you installed the
    chipset drivers during that build, the SATA drivers came along for the
    ride. Just because your last system didn't use them doesn't mean they
    weren't there. You could have added an SATA drive to your "old" system
    alongside the IDE drive and it would have worked perfectly.

    Sound and LAN drivers are specific to a particular piece of hardware so
    they have to be installed separately. The IDE drivers (provided by Intel,
    for your specific mobo) are more generic in nature and can be installed on
    a wide range of systems that use that chipset.

    Windows 7 now provides "out of the box" support for a wide range of
    hardware, so searching around for individual drivers is less of a pain
    than with XP. Something to keep in mind for your next box.
     
    Foke, Sep 15, 2010
    #5
  6. Delta007bhd

    Anssi Saari Guest

    Possible, but probably your SATA controllers are in IDE-compatible
    mode, so you never had any SATA drivers in the first place. See for
    yourself in the device manager.
     
    Anssi Saari, Sep 16, 2010
    #6
  7. Delta007bhd

    mrbjorn Guest

    If you run the sata controller in ide mode it will work. If you switch
    to AHCI mode you will have the problem with missing drivers.
    It it possible to run AHCI mode if you install AHCI drivers for your
    chipset . I never suceeded to use AHCI drivers so when I upraded to win7 it
    was not an issue anymore. Try to google around.
     
    mrbjorn, Sep 22, 2010
    #7
  8. Delta007bhd

    Delta007bhd Guest

    How can I check if my SATA controller is running in IDE-compatible
    mode? I just looked in the device manager but I don't understand what
    they say on other sites and forums when I search with google.

    It's more complicated than I thought. I remember one year ago a friend
    gave me a sata drive and I couldn't get it installed. He tried for
    himself and said you needed to press a function key during windows
    install upon boot and insert a floppy with the raid drivers. Didn't
    work either. That's why I went to a store this time and I remember
    they said they installed sata drivers. Therefore was my question.
    Couldn't find anything relevant on google. But from what I understand
    here is: sound and lan drivers and other specific hardware drivers
    such as for joysticks and printers and so on have to be installed
    separately onto the hard drive. So if you do a clean install with the
    xp cd, the drivers will be lost because they are stored on the hard
    drive. SATA and IDE drivers are different and they are installed
    automatically into the chipset of the mainboard as soon as you install
    xp. So no matter what you do, even if all data is erased from your
    drive and a disk image restored, the drivers will still be there. Is
    that correct?
    And what does it then mean when you do a clean xp install and at the
    beginning it says "press F? if you want to install third party SCSI/
    RAID drivers..."?
     
    Delta007bhd, Sep 26, 2010
    #8
  9. Delta007bhd

    Paul Guest

    Disk drivers are needed early in the installation process, as they're
    needed to get the newly installed OS to boot. If there were no disk
    drivers at all, the new install could not boot. Plug and Play operates
    in the newly installed OS, once it is booted, and Plug and Play helps
    install the rest of the drivers (as they become available).

    Each OS comes with some number of built-in drivers. In the case of OSes
    like Win98, all they understood was the two IDE ribbon cables with
    up to four disks on it. That was "vanilla IDE drivers" in I/O space.

    WinXP adds support for IDE drivers in PCI space. And also support
    for SATA in PCI space. (I think an SP1 or later CD is needed to get
    those.) But it lacks a built-in AHCI driver. If your hardware supports
    an AHCI setting in the BIOS, and you want to use AHCI, then you need
    to prepare a floppy diskette with AHCI drivers on it, then press F6
    at the start of the installation. The installer will read the drivers
    off the floppy and install them. And if the computer doesn't have a
    floppy, you could instead built a new installer CD, with "slipstreamed"
    AHCI drivers added to it.

    http://www.nliteos.com/guide/part1.html

    OSes such as Windows 7, have AHCI support built in. Perhaps Windows 7
    is missing built-in RAID support (because every chipset would be
    different - there are no RAID standards at the hardware level), so
    there may still be occasions where the newer OSes need some kind of help.
    Fortunately, in some cases for RAID, you can install in AHCI mode first, then
    migrate to whatever RAID configuration you want later (run-time migration).

    *******

    To check your SATA controller, you have a couple options.

    1) Enter the BIOS at power-up. On Asus, you likely press the <Del> key
    to get in there. On an Intel chipset, you might see IDE, AHCI, RAID
    offered as options in the BIOS screen.

    2) If you're currently sitting in the Windows desktop, use the Device
    Manager. Find the disk controller interface, find the button that
    lists the drivers present. You may be able to tell from the driver
    names, what mode of driver is currently operating your hardware.

    For example, on mine right now -

    Start : Run : devmgmt.msc

    IDE ATA/ATAPI controller

    Intel ICH9R 4 port Serial ATA Storage Controller - 2920

    Properties : Driver : Driver Details

    atapi.sys
    pciide.sys
    pciidex.sys

    As far as I know, that is "vanilla IDE emulation" in the PCI space.
    All those drivers are Microsoft branded. I did not need to press
    F6, and those drivers came with the OS (WinXP SP3 OEM installer CD).

    HTH,
    Paul
     
    Paul, Sep 26, 2010
    #9
  10. Delta007bhd

    Delta007bhd Guest

    Thanks for your extensive help Paul. I tried the same on my work's
    laptop as well as my pc:

    PC:
    First checked BIOS settings: "On-Chip ATA devices": RAID mode set to
    "IDE" (and not AHCI) and another setting "Extra RAID/IDE controller"
    set to "enabled".
    Does this mean the store didn't install any RAID drivers at all and
    that my SATA disk is running in default IDE mode with lower
    performance?

    Then in device manager I found under "IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers":
    Intel(R) 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset Family 2 port Serial ATA Storage
    Controller - 3B26, Drivers: atapi.sys, pciide.sys and pciidex.sys
    Intel(R) 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset Family 4 port Serial ATA Storage
    Controller - 3B20, Drivers: atapi.sys, pciide.sys and pciidex.sys

    Not sure what this means but I know from looking into the pc that I
    have one new drive with a SATA cable to the motherboard and an older
    D: drive with an IDE cable onto motherboard. Am I not using full
    functionality and performance of my SATA drive?

    Laptop:
    Device manager under "IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers":
    "Intel(R) ICH8M 3 port Serial ATA Storage Controller - 2828" Drivers:
    atapi.sys, pciide.sys and pciidex.sys
    "Intel(R) ICH8M Ultra ATA Storage Controllers - 2850" Drivers:
    atapi.sys, pciide.sys and pciidex.sys

    Does this mean that there are or that I can put 4 hard drives in my
    laptop? (3 ports for SATA and 1 for Ultra ATA)
     
    Delta007bhd, Sep 27, 2010
    #10
  11. Delta007bhd

    Paul Guest

    For whatever motherboard that is, the Southbridge SATA ports are set to
    IDE, and there could be a separate Jmicron chip "Extra RAID/IDE controller".
    Such chips range from simple IDE (one ribbon cable) chips, to devices that
    include both IDE and SATA ports. You'd need to know the chip number,
    to say more about what it's got.

    For example, as an "extra" chip, the JMB366 is pretty fully featured.
    It would make a fine addition, to a modern Southbridge, and give
    you plenty of useful ports. On my motherboard, all I got was a
    crummy JMB368 for the "Extra" :)

    http://www.jmicron.com/Product_list.htm

    Since you are claiming the "On-chip" is set to IDE, then there isn't
    going to be an AHCI/RAID driver there. No hotplug, no native command queuing.
    NCQ helps with server type workloads, and isn't typically that useful
    on a desktop. NCQ allows the hard drive controller to reorder commands,
    for the most efficient head movement. But it may also slow some operations
    down, such as the initial boot of the computer. On Intel, the AHCI driver
    is a "gateway" to RAID, so you can flip to RAID later. It's possible to
    move from IDE to AHCI, without an OS reinstall, but it takes some
    registry editing. It's the kind of procedure, where you'd back up C:
    first before trying it.
    The controllers get drivers, even if no hard drives are connected to them.
    Those entries suggest your SATA ports are all IDE.

    The D: drive on the IDE cable, will have yet another controller entry,
    and its own driver to look at. Could be Jmicron or some other brand,
    depending on the motherboard.
    Both controllers on the Southbridge have their drivers, and they're
    set for IDE. As for how many actual drives supported, they don't
    have to wire connectors up if they don't want to. The motherboard
    surface may only have a single SATA connection, running to the
    hard drive. If you wanted to use the others, you'd need to solder
    a connection to whatever solder balls hold the other signals.

    As for the reference to "Ultra ATA", when you use a utility, it
    will report whatever ATA standard information is available.
    SATA runs at 150 or 300MB/sec, and references to 33/66/100/133
    could be considered bogus. To test that theory, if you run
    HDTune, and check the "burst" value after a benchmark is
    run, the benchmark data rate will match the cable rate.
    For example, the best burst rate I can get (SATA II mode),
    is 229.2MB/sec , which is much higher than the reported
    "Ultra ATA mode" of ATA100. This is for one of my backup drives.
    You'll notice as well, that the two different benchmark programs,
    don't exactly agree on the results. The results were collected,
    by using the "Force150" jumper on the drive, so that I could
    get both 150 and 300 cable modes for testing.

    http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/842/500gb3500418ascomposite.gif

    Since I have an Intel chipset, the Device Manager reports the
    disk as being in "Ultra DMA mode 5" or 100MB/sec, but the results
    in the picture show, that there is really nothing related to a
    100MB/sec limit. Only my "Extra" controller, could add meaning
    to such a description, and I currently don't have a drive
    connected to that one (JMB368 single ribbon cable controller).
    My ribbon cable drive would run Ultra DMA mode 5 or 6, and
    then that report would have some meaning, as those modes
    are really used on the cable. But on SATA, as far as I know,
    it doesn't have a meaning.

    (If you really want to experiment, I suppose you could grab
    one of those utilities, that can be used to set the Ultra DMA
    Mode to one of the lower modes, and see what happens. But I
    don't plan on trying that. The above picture is good enough
    proof they're decoupled on SATA for me.)

    Note that, the first generation of SATA drives, used a bridge
    chip. The controller board on the disk, was really an IDE controller,
    with a SATA chip slapped on as an afterthought. That gave time for
    real controller boards to be designed. All the disks shipping
    now would be "native SATA", and on those, the Ultra DMA mode
    should not mean anything. Perhaps on a first generation disk
    controller board, there would be some side-effects from the
    bridged design. But the disks shipping now should be fine.

    If your drive slips into a "PIO" mode, that might still mean
    something, because then DMA would be disabled, and the processor
    would be transferring the data byte by byte. If you ever run a
    benchmark on a disk, and get a "flat line" at 7MB/sec or so,
    that would be PIO mode. And there is a Microsoft KB article
    on how to fix it. You won't need a benchmark to know, as the
    machine will be pretty slow.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Sep 27, 2010
    #11
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