iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me

Discussion in 'Apple' started by Tim McNamara, Jan 18, 2014.

  1. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    So, since installing Mavericks my calendar information doesn't sync.
    Turns out that this stuff is only synced now through iCloud, not through
    a local connection between the iOS device and the Mac. WTF is that
    about, other than forcing people to use the crap service that is
    iCloud???

    So, I tried. Six hours of Calendar spinning a progress bar with zero
    internet activity happening on my router, I pulled the plug on the
    process. Apple then promptly deleted years worth of calendar. WTF is
    wrong with Apple that they think that under ANY conditions they have the
    right to delete ANY data from MY computer? Assholes! Apple has always
    had an less than ideal relationship with its customers due to Steve
    Jobs's arrognce being part of the corporate culture, but this is the
    first time IME that they have totally sucked.

    Unless I find a workaround, this may be the deal killer for Apple and
    me. Since my computer contains confidential information covered under
    HIPAA about hundreds of clients, I am very limited in my ability to use
    cloud computing since data security cannot be reasonably guaranteed.

    Anyone know a local workaround for syncing calendars between Mac and iOS
    locally?
     
    Tim McNamara, Jan 18, 2014
    #1
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  2. Tim McNamara

    Guest Guest

    apple removed sync services. it is a stupid decision, but there's not
    much you can do now.
    apple didn't delete anything. you interrupted the process before it was
    done and therefore lost data.

    if you pull the plug on any process that is writing to a file, you are
    more than likely to lose data.

    if the data was important, you would have had one or more backups, so
    the only loss would be the time it takes to restore it.
    no, it's not the first time, just not in the way you think.
    you can use os x server on another mac to sync without using icloud.

    another option is google, although that is a worse choice than icloud.
     
    Guest, Jan 18, 2014
    #2
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  3. Fortunately you have your calendar data backed up since if any local
    data is valuable enough to infuriate you if you accidentally delete
    it, you would have it backed up.

    As far as local solutions, I don't know if any. You can sync Apple's
    calendar with other cloud solutions (Google, Exchange, Yahoo, etc.) as
    well as any CalDav server.

    So if you are truly committed to a local server, you could install a
    CalDav server on your Mac.
     
    Doug Anderson, Jan 18, 2014
    #3
  4. Tim McNamara

    JF Mezei Guest


    And how does the iPhone sync with a Caldav server ?
     
    JF Mezei, Jan 18, 2014
    #4
  5. Tim McNamara

    Ed Anson Guest

    Indeed. That is the work-around that I will be implementing. Isn't it
    ironic, though, that the "free" upgrade to Mavericks will be costing me
    the hundreds of dollars for that other Mac just to replace functionality
    Apple has otherwise removed?

    It seems that every major OS upgrade costs me a similar amount of money.
    Usually it is spent replacing apps that get broken by the upgrade. This
    is the first time I will have to buy hardware.
     
    Ed Anson, Jan 18, 2014
    #5
  6. Tim McNamara

    erilar Guest

    I just haven't "up"dated that far :cool:
     
    erilar, Jan 18, 2014
    #6
  7. Tim McNamara

    erilar Guest

    Schadenfreude moment, despite my sympathy. Other people keep making fun
    of me for complaining about losing something important to me when I
    succumb to an "upgrade".
     
    erilar, Jan 18, 2014
    #7
  8. This is standard user P&M (pissing and moaning). Your use-case is
    obviously outside that which their marketing has targetted. If you
    think about it, most systems that contain HIPPA data would be connected
    to a closed, firewalled environment to protect that data. Scheduling,
    patient names, and doctor's names are all things that non-authorized
    people shouldn't see. Lucky for you a HIPPA auditor hasn't seen your
    system.

    Where do you work?
     
    Michael Vilain, Jan 18, 2014
    #8
  9. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    Thank you, that is a helpful comment. I will look into that.
     
    Tim McNamara, Jan 18, 2014
    #9
  10. Tim McNamara

    Ed Anson Guest

    You may have mistaken me for the OP. Indeed, his use case may be a bit
    unusual, but there are many others (including me) who have concerns
    about using iCloud for this purpose.

    For many people, iCloud is probably the best way to handle syncing,
    because it is trivial to set up. But some of us prefer to keep our
    important and/or private information out of the cloud. It's not just a
    matter of privacy. Control is also a concern. Some information is
    important enough to me that I must insist on controlling it myself. No
    matter what anyone says, if it's in the cloud I don't control it.
     
    Ed Anson, Jan 19, 2014
    #10
  11. Tim McNamara

    Davoud Guest

    Ed Anson:
    Indeed. I haven't understood any of this thread because iCloud works
    fine for my wife and me.
    OK, but that means that you can't communicate your "important and/or
    private information" via the Internet at all. What assurance do you
    have that your date will not be held in a remote server (what we used
    to call "the cloud") for some indeterminate period? Sounds like
    registered mail is the way to go for you. It is probably the most
    secure means of communication available to the public in the U.S.
    (other than personal contact between persons who are known to each
    other).
     
    Davoud, Jan 19, 2014
    #11
  12. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    That is correct. And recent court decisions basically defeating net
    neutrality will make it even more correct as time goes on. My case
    is exactly an example of this: Apple, in their infinite pissiness,
    decided they owned my data instead of me owning it. If I wasn't going
    to play ball by their rules, they were going to take my ball and go
    home.

    This is an evil action on their part. Generally I am pro-Apple (heck, I
    have been using Macs exclusively since 1986) in terms of their product
    design. But Apple, along with Google and the rest of Big Data, has
    simply become too big for their boots and now are overreaching in a
    spectacular fashion. Backing up one's data is a good idea for a variety
    of reasons, but wilfull destruction of your data by a computer vendor
    shuld not be a reason to have to back up.
     
    Tim McNamara, Jan 19, 2014
    #12
  13. Tim McNamara

    Guest Guest

    they don't own your data.
    it was a mistake on your part. you killed the power before it finished
    syncing. that can cause data loss, and in your case, it did.
    they don't intentionally destroy data.
     
    Guest, Jan 19, 2014
    #13
  14. Tim McNamara

    JF Mezei Guest


    Killing the synching process mid-way should never harm the source data
    and cause loss of data in the source database. At worse, it should
    invalidate all data that was received by the receiver but not
    touch/corrupt any data in the sender.
     
    JF Mezei, Jan 19, 2014
    #14
  15. Tim McNamara

    J Burns Guest

    When I went to 10.8 from 10.4, the setup process prodded me to activate
    iCloud. I did so, so I'd have the option of using it after I'd looked
    into it. I clicked "no" for each kind of file I might want uploaded.

    When I looked into it, I decided to deactivate it. It scared me off by
    telling me that it would delete personal files from my hard drive.
    After I looked into it, I decided it wasn't true and deactivated it.
    That false scare, to discourage me from deactivating my account, has
    left me mistrustful.

    I see it's possible to sync locally, but the software could cost more
    than $100.
     
    J Burns, Jan 19, 2014
    #15
  16. Tim McNamara

    Guest Guest

    it shouldn't, but the point is that apple didn't randomly decide to
    delete his data.

    his data loss was a direct consequence of him pulling the plug during a
    sync. had he not done that, all would be fine.
     
    Guest, Jan 19, 2014
    #16
  17. Tim McNamara

    JF Mezei Guest

    Then that is a major flaw in the software. Imagine you interrupt a
    backup and as a results it deletes the original files and the backup.

    This shouldn't happen.

    If the iCloud thing is meant to MOVE the data to the cloud instead of
    duplicating it, then the deletion of the original local data should not
    happen until all of the operation has completed.
     
    JF Mezei, Jan 20, 2014
    #17
  18. Tim McNamara

    Ed Anson Guest

    I do keep my private information off the internet. That's why I'm still
    using Mountain Lion -- it lets me sync via USB, which doe not involve
    the internet.

    I have finally decided to set up a Mac Mini as a server, which will
    enable me to sync via my LAN. It's not as good for me as USB, but it
    should work ok.

    But I'm annoyed by an emerging pattern. It wasn't all that long ago that
    I could sync all my apps by a single action, over USB. Now I need to
    sync each of several apps separately, some via USB, some via WiFi, and
    all using different methods. Instead of getting better (that is, easier)
    things are getting more complicated. And all this complication is
    utterly unnecessary.
     
    Ed Anson, Jan 20, 2014
    #18
  19. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    They acted like they do.
    There was no reason for it to cause data loss except that Apple designed
    it that way to entrap its customers into using their shitty iCloud
    system. By the way, there was no indication that it was actually
    syncing. Six hours to sync a calendar? Bullshit. There was zero
    activity happening over my router during almost all of that time. It
    was clearly a hung or malfunctioning (or really badly designed) process,
    either in the system software involved or at the server end.
    Yes, they do. Try stopping your use of iCloud and see what happens.
    Apple tells you they will delete YOUR data off of YOUR computer if you
    decide not to play with them any more- and they will. iCloud is not
    merely a backup for your data in the cloud. iCloud is a transfer of
    ownership of your data to Apple- the same problem as with Google's cloud
    services and other vendors of "cloud computing." Once they've got their
    hand on your data, they will tell you what you are allowed to do with
    it- cutting them out of the loop is not one of the things you are
    allowed to do.

    Had the fuckers not eliminated local syncing of contacts and calendars
    between Mavericks and iOS devices, the use of iCloud would be irrelevant
    to most Mac users. Make no mistake- as with Google, this situation is
    the result of a deliberate business plan, not a user error. The only
    error was in trusting that Apple would be honorable; they proved
    otherwise.
     
    Tim McNamara, Jan 20, 2014
    #19
  20. Tim McNamara

    Davoud Guest

    Tim McNamara:
    You're hysterical, raving like a lunatic. And you are grossly
    exaggerating. I know, because I use iCloud and I tested this. Turn off
    iCloud for Notes. Warning, the notes that are stored in iCloud will be
    deleted from this Mac (but only this Mac; they're still in the cloud
    and they're still on my four other Macs, my four iPads, my three
    iPhones, my half dozen or so iPod Touches, etc.) Well, of course they
    will be deleted from this Mac, because they're iCloud notes and I'm
    saying I don't want iCloud notes on this Mac anymore.

    So I say OK. Notes are gone from this Mac. Go to my iPads, my iPhones,
    my other Macs. The notes are intact. Log in to icloud.com on this Mac.
    There are my notes. Turn Note syncing back on in the iCloud pref pane.
    Well, whaddya know? My notes are back immediately. So where's the beef?

    I put those notes and Safari bookmarks and Contacts and Calenders on
    Apple's server because it's convenient for me to share them among
    devices; Apple did not do that without my permission. Use of iCloud is
    optional.
     
    Davoud, Jan 20, 2014
    #20
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