IDE configuration for Abit IC7-G

Randy Schroder · Nov 3, 2003

Hello

Due to some issues with my current BE6 motherboard that I' having, I'm considering upgrading to an Abit IC7-G. Since I just purchased a couple of new Western Digital 120 GB, 8MB cache, HDs, I'm not so interested at this time in the SATA option. However, I also have a CD burner and a DVD burner, so I'm looking at a total of four IDE devices. The way I see it, my options are:

1) Connect my two HDs to the two IDE ports on the motherboard, and buy an IDE PCI card for the two burners.

2) Chain the two HDs together (master/slave) and connect them to IDE1 controller, and chain the two burners together (master/slave) on IDE2.

3) Use the SATA to IDE converter that comes with the Abit kit.

The issues I see with the above are:

1) This seems to be the "cleanest" solution. However, since XP boots off the CD during installation, will I be able to do this? The CD drive would be plugged into the PCI IDE card. Would it work to do a clean install of XP?, i.e., since the OS isn't installed yet, and no drivers are installed, would the CD even boot from the PCI card to do an install? Would the PCI IDE card be "dead" until the OS is installed, or does the PCI IDE hardware truly make the PCI card act like a "normal" IDE controller, having it active with nothing more than BIOS booted?

2) Performance issues, right?

3) This seems like an alternative, but I believe the kit only comes with one converter. Can you use another converter on the other on-board (ICH5) SATA port? Can you buy these anywhere? I assume using the on-board (ICH5) SATA and not the ports on the Silicon Image ports.

Any other suggestions/ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Randy Schroder

SteveyWonder (archive) · Nov 3, 2003

"Randy Schroder" wrote:

Hello

Due to some issues with my current BE6 motherboard that I' having, I'm considering upgrading to an Abit IC7-G. Since I just purchased a couple of new Western Digital 120 GB, 8MB cache, HDs, I'm not so interested at this time in the SATA option. However, I also have a CD burner and a DVD burner, so I'm looking at a total of four IDE devices. The way I see it, my options are:

The IC7 has the standard 2xIDE slots so 4 IDE devices can be connected. My IC7-G has an 80Gb hard drive on the first IDE and CD burner and DVD Rom on the second IDE slot. I bought the IC7 with future upgrade capability so that when SATA drives start outperforming IDE drives significantly I can upgrade..

1) Connect my two HDs to the two IDE ports on the motherboard, and buy an IDE PCI card for the two burners.

2) Chain the two HDs together (master/slave) and connect them to IDE1 controller, and chain the two burners together (master/slave) on IDE2.

3) Use the SATA to IDE converter that comes with the Abit kit.

The issues I see with the above are:

1) This seems to be the "cleanest" solution. However, since XP boots off the CD during installation, will I be able to do this? The CD drive would ... active with nothing more than BIOS booted?

2) Performance issues, right?

3) This seems like an alternative, but I believe the kit only comes with one converter. Can you use another converter on the other on-board (ICH5) SATA port? Can you buy these anywhere? I assume using the on-board

(ICH5)

SATA and not the ports on the Silicon Image ports.

Any other suggestions/ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Randy Schroder

TomG · Nov 3, 2003

there are two regular IDE channels with 4 device capability on the IC7-G. the SATA channels are single device per channel. you will receive a Serillel-2 adapter to use with a PATA hard drive for one of the SATA channels.

Bill Davis Jr · Nov 3, 2003

On Sun, 2 Nov 2003 22:56:03 -0700, "Randy Schroder"
wrote:

The issues I see with the above are:

1) This seems to be the "cleanest" solution. However, since XP boots off the CD during installation, will I be able to do this? The CD drive would be plugged into the PCI IDE card. Would it work to do a clean install of XP?, i.e., since the OS isn't installed yet, and no drivers are installed, would the CD even boot from the PCI card to do an install? Would the PCI IDE card be "dead" until the OS is installed, or does the PCI IDE hardware truly make the PCI card act like a "normal" IDE controller, having it active with nothing more than BIOS booted?

This can be done. I think in the Bios you need to set the Boot order to SCSI boot (add-on) device (I could be wrong). I did this once before on an order Abit board but have not done it since.

Option 2 I would not do.

3) This seems like an alternative, but I believe the kit only comes with one converter. Can you use another converter on the other on-board (ICH5) SATA port? Can you buy these anywhere? I assume using the on-board (ICH5) SATA and not the ports on the Silicon Image ports.

There are 4 SATA ports on the IC7-G. But they only accept one drive (SATA or w/Adapter) per port. Ports SATA 1 & 2 are the Intel ICH5R and Ports 3 & 4 are the Silicon Image ports.

So if you wanted to use these ports instead and your hard drives are non-SATA you would need 3 additional Adapters. Adapters can be found here:
http://www.excaliberpc.com/product_info.php?cPath=156_162&products_id=2060

The adapters must be Serillel2.

Any other suggestions/ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Randy Schroder

If it were myself (I already use the IC7-G) and do what you are doing, I would buy the additional adapter and:

DVD burner on IDE 1 Master
CD burner on IDE 2 Master
and the 2 WD 120's on SATA ports 1 and 2

But that is just me.

Bill

Randy Schroder · Nov 3, 2003

Thanks

I guess what I'm still wondering , though, is if I want to combine up the drives. Won't that be a performance issue?

"SteveyWonder" wrote:

"Randy Schroder" wrote:

Hello

Due to some issues with my current BE6 motherboard that I' having, I'm considering upgrading to an Abit IC7-G. Since I just purchased a couple of new Western Digital 120 GB, 8MB cache, HDs, I'm not so interested at this time in the SATA option. However, I also have a CD burner and a DVD burner, so I'm looking at a total of four IDE devices. The way I see it, my options are:

The IC7 has the standard 2xIDE slots so 4 IDE devices can be connected. My IC7-G has an 80Gb hard drive on the first IDE and CD burner and DVD Rom on the second IDE slot. I bought the IC7 with future upgrade capability so that when SATA drives start outperforming IDE drives significantly I can upgrade..

1) Connect my two HDs to the two IDE ports on the motherboard, and buy

an

IDE PCI card for the two burners.

2) Chain the two HDs together (master/slave) and connect them to IDE1
controller, and chain the two burners together (master/slave) on IDE2.

3) Use the SATA to IDE converter that comes with the Abit kit.

The issues I see with the above are:

1) This seems to be the "cleanest" solution. However, since XP boots off the CD during installation, will I be able to do this? The CD drive would be plugged into the PCI IDE card. Would it work to do a clean install

of

XP?, i.e., since the OS isn't installed yet, and no drivers are installed, would the CD even boot from the PCI card to do an install? Would the

PCI

IDE card be "dead" until the OS is installed, or does the PCI IDE hardware truly make the PCI card act like a "normal" IDE controller, having it active with nothing more than BIOS booted?

2) Performance issues, right?

3) This seems like an alternative, but I believe the kit only comes with one converter. Can you use another converter on the other on-board

(ICH5)

SATA port? Can you buy these anywhere? I assume using the on-board (ICH5) SATA and not the ports on the Silicon Image ports.

Any other suggestions/ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Randy Schroder

Randy Schroder · Nov 3, 2003

Hey Tom

Long time no talk to....

So, are you suggesting, then, that I do option (2) instead of (1)?

Thanks

"TomG" wrote:

there are two regular IDE channels with 4 device capability on the IC7-G. the SATA channels are single device per channel. you will receive a Serillel-2 adapter to use with a PATA hard drive for one of the SATA channels.

--

Thomas Geery
Network+ certified

ftp://geerynet.d2g.com
ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror <----- Cable modem IP
... this time in the SATA option. However, I also have a CD burner and a DVD burner, so I'm looking at a total of four IDE devices. The way I see it, my options are:

1) Connect my two HDs to the two IDE ports on the motherboard, and buy

an

IDE PCI card for the two burners.

2) Chain the two HDs together (master/slave) and connect them to IDE1
controller, and chain the two burners together (master/slave) on IDE2.

3) Use the SATA to IDE converter that comes with the Abit kit.

The issues I see with the above are:

1) This seems to be the "cleanest" solution. However, since XP boots off the CD during installation, will I be able to do this? The CD drive would be plugged into the PCI IDE card. Would it work to do a clean install

of

XP?, i.e., since the OS isn't installed yet, and no drivers are installed, would the CD even boot from the PCI card to do an install? Would the

PCI

IDE card be "dead" until the OS is installed, or does the PCI IDE hardware truly make the PCI card act like a "normal" IDE controller, having it active with nothing more than BIOS booted?

2) Performance issues, right?

3) This seems like an alternative, but I believe the kit only comes with one converter. Can you use another converter on the other on-board

(ICH5)

SATA port? Can you buy these anywhere? I assume using the on-board (ICH5) SATA and not the ports on the Silicon Image ports.

Any other suggestions/ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Randy Schroder

Randy Schroder · Nov 3, 2003

Hi Bill

So, are you saying I should use two SATA/IDE converters, one for each of the HDs? In looking at the picture of the board layout and the picture of the SATA/IDE converters, it seems like a tight fit. Would I be able to put two SATA converters on the two ICH5 SATA ports (side by side)? I'm getting the impression that the ICH5 SATA ports are better to use than the Silicon Image SATA ports.

Thanks
Randy Schroder

"Bill Davis Jr" wrote:

On Sun, 2 Nov 2003 22:56:03 -0700, "Randy Schroder"
wrote:

The issues I see with the above are:

1) This seems to be the "cleanest" solution. However, since XP boots off the CD during installation, will I be able to do this? The CD drive would be plugged into the PCI IDE card. Would it work to do a clean install of
XP?, i.e., since the OS isn't installed yet, and no drivers are installed, would the CD even boot from the PCI card to do an install? Would the PCI
IDE card be "dead" until the OS is installed, or does the PCI IDE hardware truly make the PCI card act like a "normal" IDE controller, having it active with nothing more than BIOS booted?

This can be done. I think in the Bios you need to set the Boot order to SCSI boot (add-on) device (I could be wrong). I did this once before on an order Abit board but have not done it since.

Option 2 I would not do.

3) This seems like an alternative, but I believe the kit only comes with
one converter. Can you use another converter on the other on-board

(ICH5)

SATA port? Can you buy these anywhere? I assume using the on-board

(ICH5)

SATA and not the ports on the Silicon Image ports.

There are 4 SATA ports on the IC7-G. But they only accept one drive (SATA or w/Adapter) per port. Ports SATA 1 & 2 are the Intel ICH5R and Ports 3 & 4 are the Silicon Image ports.

So if you wanted to use these ports instead and your hard drives are non-SATA you would need 3 additional Adapters. Adapters can be found here:
http://www.excaliberpc.com/product_info.php?cPath=156_162&products_id=2060

The adapters must be Serillel2.
...

Randy Schroder · Nov 4, 2003

Hey Bill

I've been doing some more reading on the SATA and Serillel2 adapter thing......I think you've got me talked into it. It sounds like the neatest and most straightforward solution. It looks like you have to use the Silicon Image ports and *not* the ICH5 ports, huh? As long as you can boot off those, I guess it will be fine. I will buy another one from the place you sent the link to, so I will have both HDs on SATA.

Thanks again for the info, Bill. You were a big help.

Randy

"Bill Davis Jr" wrote:

On Sun, 2 Nov 2003 22:56:03 -0700, "Randy Schroder"
wrote:

The issues I see with the above are:

1) This seems to be the "cleanest" solution. However, since XP boots off the CD during installation, will I be able to do this? The CD drive would be plugged into the PCI IDE card. Would it work to do a clean install of
XP?, i.e., since the OS isn't installed yet, and no drivers are installed, would the CD even boot from the PCI card to do an install? Would the PCI
IDE card be "dead" until the OS is installed, or does the PCI IDE hardware truly make the PCI card act like a "normal" IDE controller, having it active with nothing more than BIOS booted?

This can be done. I think in the Bios you need to set the Boot order to SCSI boot (add-on) device (I could be wrong). I did this once before on an order Abit board but have not done it since.

Option 2 I would not do.

3) This seems like an alternative, but I believe the kit only comes with
one converter. Can you use another converter on the other on-board

(ICH5)

SATA port? Can you buy these anywhere? I assume using the on-board

(ICH5)

SATA and not the ports on the Silicon Image ports.

There are 4 SATA ports on the IC7-G. But they only accept one drive (SATA or w/Adapter) per port. Ports SATA 1 & 2 are the Intel ICH5R and Ports 3 & 4 are the Silicon Image ports.

So if you wanted to use these ports instead and your hard drives are non-SATA you would need 3 additional Adapters. Adapters can be found here:
http://www.excaliberpc.com/product_info.php?cPath=156_162&products_id=2060

The adapters must be Serillel2.
...

TomG · Nov 4, 2003

why would having the drives be "combined" be a performance issue?

TomG · Nov 4, 2003

I just removed a configuration from my IC7-G where I had a Highpoint controller in a raid 0 configuration as an add-in PCI card along with a burner and DVD-ROM drive on regular IDE (IDE 1 & 2) and one drive on SATA through serillel-2. I was not real happy with the Highpoint performance, although it was better then a non-raid drive performance, it did not live up to the onboard Highpoint controllers that I had used in raid 0 configurations with a BE7 and other Highpoint 370 (or higher) controllers.

now, I have added two Maxtor SATA drives with 8 mb cache and 7200 RPM on the ICH5-R SATA in raid 0 configuration as my boot "drive" with the burner and DVD-ROM drive still on the regular IDE channels and the drive that used to be on serillel-2 on the ICH5-R is now on serillel-2 on the SI SATA controller and I have to say that the raid 0 performance I am getting is blowing away anything I ever got from Highpoint even in my best performing configurations.

the *long* answer is that I don't see a need to install an add-in controller even if you don't plan to go to raid. I would give consideration to installing one drive on the ICH5-R SATA controller, probably the boot drive with the OS on it since that controller is not on the PCI bus and has dedicated bandwidth for data. we have been using regular ATA100 controllers for several years without problem so I see no reason that you couldn't have the remaining drives on the regular controller but out of the box, you get one serillel-2 adapter and you are only talking 4 physical drives, I believe, so why not use what came with the board?

TomG · Nov 4, 2003

why do you have to use the SI ports and not the ICH5 ports? you can use the ICH5 ports and benefit in terms of not having to compete with the PCI bus for bandwidth.

Bill Davis Jr · Nov 4, 2003

On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:58:27 -0700, "Randy Schroder" wrote:

Hey Bill

I've been doing some more reading on the SATA and Serillel2 adapter thing......I think you've got me talked into it. It sounds like the neatest and most straightforward solution. It looks like you have to use the Silicon Image ports and *not* the ICH5 ports, huh? As long as you can boot off those, I guess it will be fine. I will buy another one from the place you sent the link to, so I will have both HDs on SATA.

Thanks again for the info, Bill. You were a big help.

I see no reason why you would not be able to use the ICH5 ports.

Bill

Bill Davis Jr · Nov 4, 2003

On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:38:10 -0700, "Randy Schroder"
wrote:

Hi Bill

So, are you saying I should use two SATA/IDE converters, one for each of the HDs? In looking at the picture of the board layout and the picture of the SATA/IDE converters, it seems like a tight fit. Would I be able to put two SATA converters on the two ICH5 SATA ports (side by side)? I'm getting the impression that the ICH5 SATA ports are better to use than the Silicon Image SATA ports.

Thanks
Randy Schroder

If I am reading right. You are saying plug the SATA adapter to the SATA ports? No the SATA adapters are plugged into the hard disk drive, then you use the SATA cable (the IC7-G comes with 2) to plug into the Adapter then on to the IC7-G.

Bill

Randy Schroder · Nov 4, 2003

Well, I guess I've always heard that chaining drives gives you a performance hit because of two devices on one highway. I suppose that would only be true if you were, say, copying files from one drive to another that were on the same cable, right?

"TomG" wrote:

why would having the drives be "combined" be a performance issue?

--

Thomas Geery
Network+ certified

ftp://geerynet.d2g.com
ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror <----- Cable modem IP
This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!...
over 118,000 FTP users served!
^^^^^^^
... the drives. Won't that be a performance issue?

"SteveyWonder" wrote:

"Randy Schroder" wrote:

Hello

Due to some issues with my current BE6 motherboard that I' having, I'm considering upgrading to an Abit IC7-G. Since I just purchased a couple of
new Western Digital 120 GB, 8MB cache, HDs, I'm not so interested at this
time in the SATA option. However, I also have a CD burner and a DVD burner,
so I'm looking at a total of four IDE devices. The way I see it, my options
are:

The IC7 has the standard 2xIDE slots so 4 IDE devices can be

connected.

My
IC7-G has an 80Gb hard drive on the first IDE and CD burner and DVD Rom on
the second IDE slot. I bought the IC7 with future upgrade capability so that
when SATA drives start outperforming IDE drives significantly I can upgrade..

1) Connect my two HDs to the two IDE ports on the motherboard, and buy
an
IDE PCI card for the two burners.

2) Chain the two HDs together (master/slave) and connect them to IDE1 controller, and chain the two burners together (master/slave) on

IDE2.

3) Use the SATA to IDE converter that comes with the Abit kit.

The issues I see with the above are:

1) This seems to be the "cleanest" solution. However, since XP boots off
the CD during installation, will I be able to do this? The CD drive would
be plugged into the PCI IDE card. Would it work to do a clean install of
XP?, i.e., since the OS isn't installed yet, and no drivers are installed,
would the CD even boot from the PCI card to do an install? Would

the

PCI
IDE card be "dead" until the OS is installed, or does the PCI IDE hardware
truly make the PCI card act like a "normal" IDE controller, having it active
with nothing more than BIOS booted?

2) Performance issues, right?

3) This seems like an alternative, but I believe the kit only comes
with
one converter. Can you use another converter on the other on-board (ICH5)
SATA port? Can you buy these anywhere? I assume using the on-board (ICH5)
SATA and not the ports on the Silicon Image ports. ...

Randy Schroder · Nov 4, 2003

You're right, Bill. As you can tell, I'm a SATA rookie right now. I now see that the Serielle 2 allows you to connect directly to the IDE drive. I was thinking at first that the adapter somehow plugged into the board and then the IDE drive plugged into that.

"Bill Davis Jr" wrote:

On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:38:10 -0700, "Randy Schroder"
wrote:

Hi Bill

So, are you saying I should use two SATA/IDE converters, one for each of

the

HDs? In looking at the picture of the board layout and the picture of

the

SATA/IDE converters, it seems like a tight fit. Would I be able to put

two

SATA converters on the two ICH5 SATA ports (side by side)? I'm getting the impression that the ICH5 SATA ports are better to use than the Silicon

Image

SATA ports.

Thanks
Randy Schroder

If I am reading right. You are saying plug the SATA adapter to the SATA ports? No the SATA adapters are plugged into the hard disk drive, then you use the SATA cable (the IC7-G comes with 2) to plug into the Adapter then on to the IC7-G.

Bill

Randy Schroder · Nov 4, 2003

I think I see what you're getting at, Tom. After reading your other response (where you talked about the Highpoint controller), I have done some rethinking of my plan. To refresh your memory, I was originally going to use my two existing IDE HDs with my DVD burner and CD burner. My thought was to put the HDs on the on-board IDE controllers and use the add-on for the burners. I see now that's not the optimal solution. So here's my new plan (and I think it's close, if not exactly, to what you're talking about):

1) I buy a new 120 GB SATA drive and put that on the ICH5 SATA controller 1 (on-board SATA controller1). I would boot off of this drive.

2) I use one of the existing IDE HDs and the Serielle 2 adapter in the kit, and attach that to the SI controller 1 (on-board SATA controller 3, I believe). I agree that the ICH5 SATA controller is better, but I read somewhere that if you use the Serielle adapter, you have to use the SI controller for that. Is that true? I downloaded the on-line IC7-G manual, but didn't see anything in there that talked about which controller to use. If I could use the second ICH5 SATA plug for this, that would be great.

3) Plug the DVD burner in on-board IDE controller 1.

4) Plug the CD burner in on-board IDE controller 2.

So, I would be using the ICH5 SATA controller 1 for the new 120 GB SATA drive and boot off of it. I would use the SI SATA controller 1 to plug the Serielle 2 adapter to one of the existing IDE HDs. The DVD and CD burners would plug into the on-board IDE controllers 1 and 2, respectively. How does that sound?

Thanks for all your info
Randy Schroder

"TomG" wrote:

why do you have to use the SI ports and not the ICH5 ports? you can use

the

ICH5 ports and benefit in terms of not having to compete with the PCI bus for bandwidth.

--

Thomas Geery
Network+ certified

ftp://geerynet.d2g.com
ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror <----- Cable modem IP
This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!...
over 118,000 FTP users served!
... place you sent the link to, so I will have both HDs on SATA.

Thanks again for the info, Bill. You were a big help.

Randy

"Bill Davis Jr" wrote:

On Sun, 2 Nov 2003 22:56:03 -0700, "Randy Schroder"
wrote:

... boots off
the CD during installation, will I be able to do this? The CD drive
would
be plugged into the PCI IDE card. Would it work to do a clean install of
XP?, i.e., since the OS isn't installed yet, and no drivers are
installed,
would the CD even boot from the PCI card to do an install? Would the PCI
IDE card be "dead" until the OS is installed, or does the PCI IDE
hardware
truly make the PCI card act like a "normal" IDE controller, having it
active
with nothing more than BIOS booted?

This can be done. I think in the Bios you need to set the Boot order ...

TomG · Nov 5, 2003

I've not really been able to see a huge impact in that but that might be because I partition a drive and sometimes am even copying from one partition on a single drive to another.

you have to ask yourself if you might not see, like I did, some less than perfect performance out of an add-in controller for whatever reason (PCI bus bandwidth competition, etc.)

TomG · Nov 5, 2003

See comments inline...

"Randy Schroder" wrote:

I think I see what you're getting at, Tom. After reading your other response (where you talked about the Highpoint controller), I have done some rethinking of my plan. To refresh your memory, I was originally going to use my two existing IDE HDs with my DVD burner and CD burner. My thought was to put the HDs on the on-board IDE controllers and use the add-on for the burners. I see now that's not the optimal solution. So here's my new plan (and I think it's close, if not exactly, to what you're talking

about):

1) I buy a new 120 GB SATA drive and put that on the ICH5 SATA controller 1 (on-board SATA controller1). I would boot off of this drive.

2) I use one of the existing IDE HDs and the Serielle 2 adapter in the kit, and attach that to the SI controller 1 (on-board SATA controller 3, I believe). I agree that the ICH5 SATA controller is better, but I read somewhere that if you use the Serielle adapter, you have to use the SI controller for that. Is that true? I downloaded the on-line IC7-G manual, but didn't see anything in there that talked about which controller to

use.

If I could use the second ICH5 SATA plug for this, that would be great.

you can use the Serillel-2 adapter on the ICH5-R SATA controller equally as well as on the SI controller.

3) Plug the DVD burner in on-board IDE controller 1.

4) Plug the CD burner in on-board IDE controller 2.

So, I would be using the ICH5 SATA controller 1 for the new 120 GB SATA drive and boot off of it. I would use the SI SATA controller 1 to plug

the

Serielle 2 adapter to one of the existing IDE HDs. The DVD and CD burners would plug into the on-board IDE controllers 1 and 2, respectively. How does that sound?

It will work just fine but you are not limited to the SI controller for the serillel-2 adapter

Thanks for all your info

No problem