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Is T-Bred B faster and cooler than T-Bred A?

Discussion in 'PC Hardware' started by Piotr Makley, Apr 18, 2004.

  1. Piotr Makley

    Piotr Makley Guest

    This page http://www.motherboardfaqs.com/article.php?17.255 says:

    "The Thoroughbred "B" is simply a revised version of the
    A core, with one major kick - speed! These chips feature
    the usual optimizations on an instruction level, and
    major modifications in the actual physical manufacturing
    process."

    From this I guess that a Thoroughbred-B running at, let's say, 1600
    MHz is faster than the older Thoroughbred-A running at the same
    1600 MHz.

    But AMD rates both these processors as having the same "Intel-
    equivalent" performance of 1900+. It's the same for other models
    of T-Bred A and B.

    I thought Throughbred B's are faster and cooler than the equivalent
    Thoroughbred A's? Can someone please explain.
     
    Piotr Makley, Apr 18, 2004
    #1
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  2. Piotr Makley

    Kevin Lawton Guest

    It certainly sounds better for marketing purposes. :)
    Chnaces are that clock rates and stuff like that stay the same, but some of
    the more complex instructions microcode has been fine-tuned to manage the
    same job in less clock cycles.
    Remember, the marketing term 'much faster' might mean as much as 1% under
    typical or average usage and 'cooler' probably just means a degree or two.
    Nothing to get excited about unless you are in the business of selling them.
    Kevin.

    | This page http://www.motherboardfaqs.com/article.php?17.255 says:
    |
    | "The Thoroughbred "B" is simply a revised version of the
    | A core, with one major kick - speed! These chips feature
    | the usual optimizations on an instruction level, and
    | major modifications in the actual physical manufacturing
    | process."
    |
    | From this I guess that a Thoroughbred-B running at, let's say, 1600
    | MHz is faster than the older Thoroughbred-A running at the same
    | 1600 MHz.
    |
    | But AMD rates both these processors as having the same "Intel-
    | equivalent" performance of 1900+. It's the same for other models
    | of T-Bred A and B.
    |
    | I thought Throughbred B's are faster and cooler than the equivalent
    | Thoroughbred A's? Can someone please explain.
     
    Kevin Lawton, Apr 18, 2004
    #2
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  3. Piotr Makley

    Stacey Guest

    Piotr Makley wrote:

    Faster because they will oclock better don't think they run any cooler. Now
    the difference between a palimino and a tbred of the same speed is another
    story, the tbred is -a lot- cooler than the palimino.
     
    Stacey, Apr 18, 2004
    #3
  4. Piotr Makley

    Wes Newell Guest

    The original Tbred A core was crap. Speed wise just slightly better than
    the Palomino core. The redesign added 2 more layers to the core, so to say
    it's simply a revised version is putting it mildly. The new B core runs a
    lot cooler and will clock a lot higher than the original Tbred core, given
    an A designation after the fact. AMD maxed out the A core with the 2200+
    at 1800MHz. The B core was maxed out with the 2800+ at 2250MHz. Both will
    normally run faster than that with the A core at about 1900MHz and the B
    core at around 2400MHz, although some have had A cores to 2000Mhz and some
    have had B cores over 2600MHz.
     
    Wes Newell, Apr 18, 2004
    #4
  5. Piotr Makley

    kony Guest

    No. The major modification, IIRC, was an extra layer or two in the core.
    The performance should be identical unless they tweaked cache timings but
    AFAIK, they didn't. "Usual optimizations on an instruction level" simply
    means that they are same as the T'Bred A in that regard.

    It may be that they waste less heat due to restructued core design layers,
    and I believe they are capable of running at same MHz speed at lower vCore
    (but you "might" have to manually set the vCore to a different value to
    even benefit from this small difference instead of running at stock
    voltage.).

    There is one main issue significant to the end-user. T'Bred B can scale
    to higher MHz. That means it'll overclock higher, and that AMD needed the
    redesign to take the chips to spec'd speeds beyond roughly 1.8GHz.

    However, today you'd want neither, a further core revision was Thorton and
    I'm not sure what was changed on those (beyond multiplier and visual
    surface trace differences) but they again can run at even higher speed and
    lower vCore per MHz.

    To recap, if you're not overclocking, just wanting to plug the chip into
    the socket and use it, will make no significant difference if it's a
    T'Bred A, B, or Thorton except that if the motherboard bios doens't
    recognize the model number it might misreport the CPU's AMD "name" or list
    it's MHz instead of "XPnnn" name.
     
    kony, Apr 18, 2004
    #5
  6. Piotr Makley

    Piotr Makley Guest


    Thanks for the info, Kony.

    I looked at the page below and saw that many A and B cpus had the
    same processor speed and they were both "model 8".

    How would you go about identifying whether you were being offered
    an A or a B T-Bred by a seller? Is the CPUID of 680 or 681 on the
    chip and is that the best way of telling which is which if you have
    the physical chip?

    What about telling if its an A or a B from an advert?

    http://www.ultimatehardware.net/prices.htm
    page cached at http://tinyurl.com/3fljv
     
    Piotr Makley, Apr 18, 2004
    #6
  7. Piotr Makley

    kony Guest

    You'd have to ask (if they even knew, they may not if a volume reseller or
    just a CSR on the phone). Otherwise get the markings from the chip and
    look it up with Google... there are a lot of places with that info.

    Well that table you linked would make it clear if you could buy from
    that... some sellers will list that info but mostly you'd have to do as I
    suggested above.
     
    kony, Apr 18, 2004
    #7
  8. Piotr Makley

    Tony Hill Guest

    In a word: no. By "faster" they simply mean it will clock higher.
    Clock for clock they perform the same, it's just that the 'B' model
    (CPUID 681) will clock higher than the 'A' model (CPUID 680). In
    terms of heat and power consumption, the 'B' model 2200+ consumes a
    maximum of 62.7W while the 'A' model 2200+ (fastest available)
    consumes 67.9W. However if you look at their slowest common speed,
    the 1700+ model, both 'A' and 'B' steppings consume 49.4W It's only
    the higher common speed grade that has a higher rated power
    consumption figure.

    So, in short, the Thoroughbred 'B' doesn't run either cooler (except
    for the 2200+ model) or faster than the Thoroughbred 'A', it just
    clocks higher.
     
    Tony Hill, Apr 18, 2004
    #8
  9. Piotr Makley

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Well said. I was going to say the same myself but had a busy day yesterday
    and didn't have the time. I found it hard to believe that nobody had
    explained it properly, as you just did.
     
    ~misfit~, Apr 19, 2004
    #9
  10. Piotr Makley

    Grumble Guest

    http://anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1685
     
    Grumble, Apr 19, 2004
    #10
  11. Piotr Makley

    somebody Guest

    Yes. The way I remember it, 'A' chips had hot spots. Making it
    difficult to cool sufficiently, and high clocks unfeasible.
    I think the major change introduced with the additional layers, is
    that the power/heat output is more uniformly distributed over the chip
    area.

    ancra
     
    somebody, Apr 19, 2004
    #11
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