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Is there a tablet with a higher than 60mhz refresh rate?

Discussion in 'Tablet PC' started by Callahan, Jun 20, 2004.

  1. Callahan

    Callahan Guest

    I know I have suddenly posted a half dozen threads, but it seems that no matter
    how long I lurked, no matter how much I researched, there are still things that
    (now that I actually have one) I need to ask about the tablet pcs.

    So, is it possible to have a tablet pc with a better than 60mhz refresh rate? The
    flicker is starting to give a headache. Is there any tweak that I can do to
    lessen it a bit (if the refresh can't be overcome)?
     
    Callahan, Jun 20, 2004
    #1
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  2. I didn't think refresh rates mattered on a LCD?

    Or do you mean on an external CRT?
     
    Josh Einstein, Jun 20, 2004
    #2
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  3. Callahan

    Callahan Guest

    Nope. I mean the LCD. It has a definite rhythmic flicker from the top left
    corner down. Maybe it's the light sensor?

    For what it's worth, I can see the flicker on a CRT really clearly when
    it's set to 60. It's strange, I checked on toshiba, HP, and acer's sites
    and they really don't mention refresh rates at all, anywhere.

    -callahan
     
    Callahan, Jun 20, 2004
    #3
  4. It might not be a refresh rate issue. It sounds like a malfunction. On a CRT
    60 is low but that's all I've ever seen a LCD at.
     
    Josh Einstein, Jun 20, 2004
    #4
  5. Callahan

    Callahan Guest

    That is totally a bummer. I really do like the tablet. I have read some
    discouraging stories about dealing with Acer concerning returns and
    replacement. Despite the slow hard drive and some software glitches
    (video/audio not working properly for the franklin planner tutorial, TIP
    freezing, etc.), the screen seems to be the biggest and only real reason to
    send it back. In addition, I noticed that it ran a little hotter than my
    previous laptops, and was a little concerned. I tried to ignore it as I
    tried out all the features and doodads. This morning I noticed something
    disturbing, that on the bottom of the laptop is a melted spot on the MS
    windows xp certificate of authenticity sticker. I didn't use it in any way
    that would cause it to wear out anything, so it wasn't me. Unless, of
    course, it is a refurb. Is there anyway I can tell?

    My fear is that these issues cannot really be fixed and I might as well
    either keep the one I have and deal with it (for the price though, that may
    not be realistic), return it to the vendor (CDW btw) and get something
    different, or try to send it back to be fixed and endure weeks without a
    laptop.

    Any suggestions, advice?
    -callahan
     
    Callahan, Jun 21, 2004
    #5
  6. Callahan

    Mickey Segal Guest

    Some people see the flicker on a CRT more than others. Most commonly this
    is in people whose eyes make tiny darting movements ("nystagmus"), occurring
    in many common conditions such as "lazy eye" (strabismus). But I have the
    same impression that the others do, that the persistence of the LCD display
    is so long as to make refresh rate unimportant. According to this
    hypothesis one would predict that someone who doesn't share your sensitivity
    to CRT flicker would have the same problem as you do on the laptop.
     
    Mickey Segal, Jun 21, 2004
    #6
  7. Callahan

    Cheryl Wise Guest

    I'd call Acer tomorrow or see if you can exchange it where you bought it for
    another Acer. I'm one of the people who will complain loudly about Acer
    support not being the best but not because they failed to fix my screen
    problem. My complaints are because of the shipping option they used AND
    their failure to keep me apprised of what was going on. Which meant that a 2
    day repair took 8.

    A daily phone call fixed the not keeping me updated problem until someone
    finally checked and noticed that my email address had not been put in the
    update on change box or whatever they call it. Once that was done I did
    receive the long promised updates by email.

    My Acer Tablet C301 runs much cooler than the HP it replaced. If your is
    running as hot as you say and there is a melted spot on the case there is a
    hardware problem. Most of the problems I've seen reported with the Acer
    tablets relate to screen issues so make sure you go into detail with the
    problems you are seeing. FWIW, when I called Acer there was none of the
    "restore to factory configuraiton using the rescue disk before we will talk
    to you or give you a RMA" nonsense I've had from other vendors.

    Since it was returned to me the only issue I've had is with the TIP that I
    think is related to SP 2 RC 2 since I've seen another report on a different
    model tablet of the same problem.

    This really does sound like a hardware problem.
     
    Cheryl Wise, Jun 21, 2004
    #7
  8. Callahan

    Callahan Guest

    Thanks Mickey. : ) I do not (for the record) have either a twitchy eye nor
    a lazy one. My eyes are a really light brown and I have had some of the
    sensitivities that people with light blue eyes have. Also, I have noticed
    that women tend to be more sensitive to it than men, and I am one of the
    former as well.

    I had a friend take a look at it for confirmation (dark blue eyes, wouldn't
    notice if a truck hit him, definitely not what one would call the sensitive
    type) and he said that he saw a flicker as well (also not known for humoring
    me). His suggestion? Send it back and get a HP. I'd rather not. Thus, I
    come to you.

    As for the flicker sort of being inevitable if you have a certain kind of
    eye condition, well, that sort of stands to reason. But it seems to me that
    that kind of problem would manifest in a general experience of flickering,
    regardless of the screen resolution. As I have had little to no problem in
    the past with refreshes on normal crts, I don't figure it's my eyes, so it
    must be the LCD. I also have never seen the flicker on any laptop I have
    ever owned (even my little thinkpad from '98 doesn't flicker, bless its
    heart). I am going to try it again though anyway. Maybe (and maybe I am
    just stretchin' here) my eyes were tired or something..

    -callahan
     
    Callahan, Jun 21, 2004
    #8
  9. Callahan

    Chris H. Guest

    The only reported "flickering" I remember mentioned here was a factory
    defect. Sorry, but off the top of my head, I don't recall brand itself, but
    do remember the machine was sent in for a sensor repair or something. I've
    currently got three Tablet PCs - Motion 1300, Acer C100 and Toshiba M200 -
    all operating at 60, with no perceivable flicker. (And I were trifocals.)
    :cool:
     
    Chris H., Jun 21, 2004
    #9
  10. Callahan

    Mickey Segal Guest

    Higher refresh rates, even ones of 75 Hz, seem to fix the flickering problem
    that most people with nystagmus see with displays set at 60 Hz. Some people
    can walk up to a monitor and tell you immediately if it is at 60 Hz while
    most others will never have a clue anything is not set properly. It does
    seem surprising that a small change makes such a big difference, but it
    does, presumably due to some persistence threshold. About half of CRTs seem
    to be left at 60 Hz for Windows computers; on the Macintosh the setup is
    better and this seldom happens.

    As we all suspected, the problem in your case seems to be defective
    hardware.
     
    Mickey Segal, Jun 22, 2004
    #10
  11. Callahan

    Callahan Guest

    Thanks. It breaks my heart, but I'm making the call tomorrow so the tablet can go
    back for replacement.

    Seriously, I appreciate the advice. I felt as if I were making the decision in a
    vacuum. Is it hardware, software, or my imagination? No one I know has ever
    tried a tabletpc and everyone around here that I asked flatly didn't know what was
    normal and acceptable and what wasn't. If not for you (all) I would always kinda
    doubt
    that I did the right thing.
     
    Callahan, Jun 22, 2004
    #11
  12. Callahan

    Cheryl Wise Guest

    Believe me I understand about it breaking your heart to send in your new
    tablet so soon after getting it. I felt and still feel the same way.

    Hopefully it will be back better than new soon. I'd recommend getting it in
    ASAP so you don't get hit like I did having it sit on a FedEx shipping dock
    while everyone is off for a long weekend.
     
    Cheryl Wise, Jun 22, 2004
    #12
  13. Callahan

    Alex Nichol Guest

    That's right. In fact the complaint is usually the other way - that the
    response of an LCD is so slow that you do not get good quality in fast
    moving displays (eg games)
     
    Alex Nichol, Jun 22, 2004
    #13
  14. Callahan

    root Guest

    I believe that the concept of refresh flicker that is well known for CRTs is
    NOT even relevant to LCDs and therefore an LCD's refresh rate isn't
    associated with flicker. On a CRT a dot/pixel is made bright for a short
    instant about once every 1/60 sec. and that period is in the 10-s
    nanoseconds. A dot/pixel immediately goes dark/black immediately at the
    persistence decay rate of that CRT's phosphor.. That 60 times per second
    very bright to dark cycle is what some folks nervous systems(NOT EYES) are
    sensitive to.

    On a LCD the pixel stays constant at the current setting until changed.
    There is NO blink. The 60 Hz refresh rate on an LCD is the change to new
    value rate and NOT a blink rate. Therefore the nervous systems sensitivity
    to a 60 Hz blink rate has NO equivalent on a LCD.
     
    root, Aug 10, 2004
    #14
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