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Liquid cooling with Peltier

Discussion in 'Overclocking' started by No One, Feb 3, 2006.

  1. No One

    No One Guest

    I've seen plenty of setups where liquid cooling is used to cool a
    Peltier attached to a CPU, but has anyone ever used a peltier to cool
    the liquid in a liquid cooling system? Say replace the large radiator
    with a Peltier heat exchange system. Would this cool the liquid too much?
     
    No One, Feb 3, 2006
    #1
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  2. No One

    Adam Webb Guest

    I've seen plenty of setups where liquid cooling is used to cool a Peltier
    cooling liquid this way doesnt really work too well. 2 or more 220watt TEC's
    will cool water down nicely, but they would cool the CPU better if they was
    in direct contact.
     
    Adam Webb, Feb 3, 2006
    #2
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  3. No One

    Phil Weldon Guest

    :
    | I've seen plenty of setups where liquid cooling is used to cool a
    | Peltier attached to a CPU, but has anyone ever used a peltier to cool
    | the liquid in a liquid cooling system? Say replace the large radiator
    | with a Peltier heat exchange system. Would this cool the liquid too much?
    _____

    Yes, Peltier arrays can be used to cool liquid.

    Peltier arrays are very inefficient, and generate a lot of waste heat while
    pumping a much smaller quantity of heat. Peltier arrays also become less
    efficient as the cold side temperature drops. Also the temperature
    differential between the cold side and the hot side decreases as the
    quantity of heat rises. A good rule of thumb for cooling with a Peltier
    array is that the electrical power consumed by the array is about three
    times the heat power pumped

    Peltier arrays are used in cascade to cool sensors, but this is only
    practical when the original amount of heat is small because of the waste
    heat generated. If the original heat to be pumped is 1 watt, then the first
    Peltier array generates an additional 3 watts, so the second array must pump
    4 watts, and the third array must pump 15 watts. The results would be
    cooling the first cold side to about 35 C + 25 C + 15 C = 75 C below the
    last hot side in a three stage cascade.

    Intel and AMD CPUs have now reached heat generation levels that make Peltier
    cooling impractical compared to phase change cooling (refrigeration by
    compression and expansion of freon, for example.) A CPU that dissipates 80
    Watts of heat (also the amount of electrical power consumed) would require a
    first stage Peltier array that consumed 240 Watts of power, and the second
    stage would require an array that consumed 960 Watts, and the third stage
    would require 3800 watts of power and then the total amount of heat would
    need to be dissipated; not an easy task.

    Not only would the waste heat and power become very large, but the area of
    each Peltier array would need to grow by four times in each stage. For this
    reason, at high power levels cooling a fluid would be a good way to move
    heat from a small surface to a larger surface. At this point, however, the
    only advantage of Peltier arrays begins to be lost - piping and pumping
    would be required.

    Years ago, in the Pentium III era I built a cooling system that used three
    80 watt Peltier arrays to cool a water/antifreeze mixture and then pumped
    the water over a fourth 80 watt Peltier array that used a copper spreader
    plate in contact with a CPU chip. I didn't make progress quickly, and CPU
    power dissipation climbe very quickly with the Pentium 4. What was
    practical (barely) with a 30 Watt dissipation became impractical with an 80
    Watt dissipation.

    Until a new, more efficient material is found for Pelitier arrays they will
    not be a practical cooling choice for current CPUs.

    You can find good information on Peltier arrays at
    http://www.tellurex.com/ .

    Phil Weldon

    | I've seen plenty of setups where liquid cooling is used to cool a
    | Peltier attached to a CPU, but has anyone ever used a peltier to cool
    | the liquid in a liquid cooling system? Say replace the large radiator
    | with a Peltier heat exchange system. Would this cool the liquid too much?
     
    Phil Weldon, Feb 4, 2006
    #3
  4. No One

    No One Guest

    So the Peltier cannot cool down the liquid via a cold plate?
     
    No One, Feb 4, 2006
    #4
  5. No One

    No One Guest

    Am I understanding that in a Peltier array as you mention that each
    Peltier cools the previous? I was thinking of using two in parallel,
    than as a stack.
     
    No One, Feb 4, 2006
    #5
  6. No One

    Adam Webb Guest

    cooling liquid this way doesnt really work too well. 2 or more 220watt
    it can cool, its just not as good as direct contact
     
    Adam Webb, Feb 4, 2006
    #6
  7. No One

    Phil Weldon Guest

    :
    | Am I understanding that in a Peltier array as you mention that each
    | Peltier cools the previous? I was thinking of using two in parallel,
    | than as a stack.

    _____

    Try the http://www.tellurex.com web site.
    The advantage of cooling a liquid is that the hugh amount of heat generated
    by the Peltier arrays can be moved outside the system case. But that loses
    the advantage of Peltier arrays ... no pumps or liquid. Current CPUs just
    dissipate too much power to be a good candidate for Peltier array cooling.
    A single stage of Peltier array cooling can make the cold side no more than
    about 35 C lower than the hot side.

    Phil Weldon

    | Am I understanding that in a Peltier array as you mention that each
    | Peltier cools the previous? I was thinking of using two in parallel,
    | than as a stack.
    |
     
    Phil Weldon, Feb 4, 2006
    #7
  8. No One

    spr Guest

    Another thing to consider, unless you have the latest and greatest cpu and
    memory already(no way to go up), the price of phase change, refrigeration
    systems and the high speed memory needed for high overclocks could instead
    be spent on a faster core speed cpu and a water cooling setup. And the power
    would be half that needed for a phase change or pelt system.

    You also have to consider the cooling of the room itself. As stated in other
    threads, a peltier box will dump much more heat into a room.
     
    spr, Feb 9, 2006
    #8
  9. No One

    No One Guest

    Well, I already have a P4 3.4 Prescott and 533-DDR2 memory, but no dual
    core. I also have a $100 liquid cooling system that has dropped the CPU
    temp 40 deg F under load. I was just wondering if a Peltier could heat
    exchange with the liquid better than a copper radiator and a 8 cm fan.
     
    No One, Feb 10, 2006
    #9
  10. No One

    Caporali Guest

    Besides power, another thing that would be a problem with using a pelt
    with water cooling is condensation. Very cool water, running over hot
    components will definitely cause consensation on your board.
    Pelts are also expensive and for the most part a waste, stick with a
    decent water cooling setup, Corsair is readying a 500W cooler called
    the Nautlius 500, which moves 500w of heat.....for about $150....very
    nice little setup
    If you found this helpful, or need more help, check out my site:
    HardwareLogic.com
    http://hardwarelogic.com/
    We are a site dedicated to helping people build, maintain, and upgrade
    their own systems through in depth and honest reviews, how to guides,
    and super friendly forums.
    We are a completely free, and a spam free site....if you get the
    chance, check it out. If you need help with anything, or just want to
    join our forums, please do...the more the merrier.

    HardwareLogic Forums
    http://hardwarelogic.com/forums/
    If you like what we have to offer, please stick around and
    contribute....help others solve their issues and make good buying
    decisions.
     
    Caporali, Feb 15, 2006
    #10
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