Matching DDR for dual.. P4P800-E delux or any for that matter.

Discussion in 'Asus' started by James Bald, Jun 4, 2004.

  1. James Bald

    James Bald Guest

    I'm about to go with some Kingston KVR400X64C3A/512.
    I see them listed in the ASUS DDR 400 QVL for that motherboard.
    If I get two of them, will it be okay, or only matched KITS guarantee proper dual operations ?

    example 2:
    Suppose I go to the store and get ONE stick of Corsair VALUE (VS512MB400) (also listed),
    then a month after I return to get a second same brand size and model.. Will it cause problems,
    or I'm just getting paranoid.

    I'm new to DDR, and I don't want to regret my purchase.

    Fact is I've decided to get two 512MB sticks of Kingston above, but worry that they are not sold in kits.
    Regards,
    Mr newbie is getting a fabulous upgrade this year...At last.. 8)
     
    James Bald, Jun 4, 2004
    #1
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  2. James Bald

    Henrik B. Guest

    proper dual operations ?

    Nope....they'll work fine.
    Yep, getting paranoid. ;o)

    I'm running 2 x 512 MB modules - same brand AND 2 x 256 MB modules -
    different brands(!). And that works very well.

    Cheers!
     
    Henrik B., Jun 4, 2004
    #2
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  3. James Bald

    James Bald Guest

    A MILLION Thanks Henrik !

    And for that matter, let me thank the great people in this forum and
    especially Paul HTH... You saved me tons of head scratching about PSUs and so much more...

    Paranoid DDR newbie is now history... Good shrinking Henrik !
    :D
    B
    -------------
     
    James Bald, Jun 4, 2004
    #3
  4. James Bald

    Paul Guest

    It does pay to do a little research into the company you are
    dealing with. Kingston, for example, has a datasheet for each
    product on their web site. The datasheet specifies that the module
    has, say, (16) 32Mx8 chips on it. Any product that ships should
    have the architecture specified in the datasheet, and that is
    good enough matching for dual channel.

    If I go to my corner store, and ask for a 256MB stick of ram,
    one time I'll get generic DIMMs with x8 chips on it, and if I
    go back two days later, they'll give me a generic with x16 chips
    instead. You should at least check Google, as some manufacturers
    don't actually make the cheaper RAM that they sell, instead they
    can buy modules from up to three different suppliers that meet
    the requirements. As long as the company you are dealing with
    promises not to ship modules with a different architecture, you
    should be safe. So, if two modules have (16) 32Mx8 chips on them,
    and one module has Hynix chips, and the other Samsung, they should
    still work in dual channel mode. It is when one module has x8 chips
    and another has x16, that the memory controller will revert to
    single channel mode (that is, for the P4P800-E Deluxe motherboard
    we are discussing here - on an A7N8X with Nforce2 chipset, it
    wouldn't matter).

    With 512MB modules, I would say the risk is low, as there is
    really only one cost effective way to make them. (That could
    change some day, if the 512Mbit chips ever enter volume
    production. One manufacturer has threatened to make a 512MB
    single sided module, but none have been seen. The necessary
    chips are still too expensive for that.) Other capacities
    have a few more options available.

    HTH,
    Paul
     
    Paul, Jun 4, 2004
    #4
  5. James Bald

    James Bald Guest

    Paul wrote in message ...
    One reason I'm a great admirer of yours is the generous and valuable tech infos
    you provide.. I do more than my part of research because I know how wicked the
    salesman around here can be.... One tries to sell me a P4P800 SE telling me it
    was virtually the same as de -E deluxe, but Firewire added.. I soon noticed the
    SE was limited to ATA100 (means different controler), also noticed it had
    digital 6channel instead of my now 8 channel ready.. I made tons of research
    for Linux compatibility too, and Windows98 for that matter since I'm still a Linux+
    Win98 dual boot guy.

    I went back to all 2003 great posts in this forum to read infos, and realized how
    delicate it was to pick a good DDR... Stuff like CH5 chips Winbond are not available
    anymore, so the later slower CAS3 RAM eventually made sense to me as a good pick.

    I'm an older engineer, remembering the great stability of a Pentium on a BX440 chipset,
    but it's past history.. Yet even back then, I could Burn a CDR, download stuff and record
    music 44Khz stereo, while playing a DvD on a DXR4 **all at once**; While without problem.
    Young computer salesman think only XP a P4 can do this right.
    Later VIA chipset would give me pain, as it would glitch the recording AUDIO as soon
    as I used a simple USB modem... I found workarounds but upgrading is never an
    easy thing if you want to do it right.... The quality of people here reflect the quality of
    the technology ASUS is providing, as long as we stick to the 'better models of course.'

    I've been shopping like mad to upgrade my trusty old Celeron900Mhz ASUS CUVL somth'n..
    This machine can still do everything... But is a pain for DvD editing and I'm going there.

    For the PSU, I plan on having lots of devices, and read about people who would not
    post using 420Watts ANTEC, while a 480Watts Thermaltake would do the job..
    I did a full research but your single post earlier made it all clear to me. Thanks again.
    I do read french.. Here is the link to this issue.
    http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/18608/?o=20

    I was going to go with the Powercolor Radeon 9600Pro following many reviews and
    awards, but then the 9800Pro made more sense to me for the little extra.
    Current support for Win98 is a joy for me at this time as I'm still using nifty old tools.
    All in all, this card is hot... OpenGL 2.0 support... DirectX9 also works fine under Win98.
    Even Catalyst 4.1.
    http://www.hothardware.com/hh_files/S&V/atiradeon9800pro.shtml
    http://www.opendrivers.com/company/120/ATI-Technology.html

    I expected to follow some of the experts in the Overclocking area for the RAM, but
    stuff like this is no longer available.
    http://jackpote2.free.fr/Informatique/Hardware.fr/OC P4C/rekap_mem.htm 300KB table.
    This is obsolete as I understand now for their RAM is now only matched by Crucial Black
    2-2-2-5 expensive model.

    My P4 2.8C is a D1 core stepping.. SL6WT... So I read if it was stable enough for a
    little overclocking..
    http://processorfinder.intel.com/scripts/details.asp?sSpec=SL6WT
    http://forum.hardware.fr/hardwarefr/Hardware/sujet-617054-1.htm (French)
    I found some with no problems with this stepping, so I cross my fingers hoping for
    a rock solid 3Ghz.

    I skipped de P4 with 1MB cache even though it's only a few bucks more It's not
    that much better in tests, and it's extremely hot... With almost double transistors.
    If you cam't read french, you still can check the bencharks.. But everything in this
    article is excellent and even english speaking only people can figure what it's all about.
    http://www.materiel.be/cpu/2004cpu/page1.php

    So I do not only upgrade my puter.. I upgrade my understanding of recent tech with
    the help of fine people like in this forum and more.. You are just a genius accoding to
    my standards Paul. I must tell you that at least once in my lifetime... Bless you !

    //////////////////////////////////
    There is STILL one thing worrying me about my ASUS Mobo..
    ASUS P4P800-E deluxe rev 1.2 .. Now I thought I was stuck with older hardware since
    I'm not living in the states.. I'm used to see shops offering 1 y/o tech compared to the US.

    On the other hand, the great reviews of this board also dates back to my revision number..
    And I confirmed at least a few happy customers with a rev 1.2. Using PAP and all..

    Yet.. I wonder what's the difference with a rev 2.0.
    Can you enlighten me.. Still paranoid a bit. :)

    I finally got two sticks of these... One ANTEC Purepower 480 and one of these Chinese
    copy of ANTEC design casing at half the ANTEC price. (Best choice 6A series)
    PO: 4A015... I strongly recommend it.

    Looks like it pays to shop around and take the time to learn about the hardware before.
    Soon I'll be posting a short review... Cross my fingers it'll work fine.

    Thanks anyway Paul and all great forumers here.
    Ben

    "akh tI akh gAyi ka:h."
    - One plus one make eleven. In unity there is strength.
    - Two heads we better than one.
    http://www.iils.org/pdf/DictionaryProverbs.pdf
     
    James Bald, Jun 4, 2004
    #5
  6. James Bald

    Glen Guest

    The matched pairs are really only if you want to overclock. For dual chanel
    just get same make\size for each channel pair.

    Glen
     
    Glen, Jun 4, 2004
    #6
  7. James Bald

    James Bald Guest

    Cool.. It works here now..
    FSB 800 and reported 1Gig by bios. Only I am fascinated by these facts since it's all so new.
    BTW, right now the system won't post in Turbo mode.. Wondering.
    But when I ENABLE the memory acceleration mode it's flawless. Hyperpath then is fine I guess.

    One big hassle to come, eand I'll ask in a separate thread is about installing Legacy OSs,
    I know I'm a fool to want to use multiboot Linux and Win98;
    But even with the MAX CPU Value ID ENABLED and Hyperthreading disabled, SETUP
    goes back to prompt, failing its test.. Could be a number of things..
    First of which is my HD is not fully partitionned.. Or that I'm installing from a DvD reader,
    or that I don't have a floppy installed.. (I have a custom made recovery bootable CDR
    to boot first, then I insert my original Windows98 CD and SETUP bombs to prompt. ?

    Weird... There must be a trick I haven't figured-out yet.
    Any guess ?.

    TIA,.. So far so good. :)
     
    James Bald, Jun 5, 2004
    #7
  8. James Bald

    James Bald Guest

    James Bald wrote in message ...
    My bad !.. I had a primary C drive just a tad too big. (2055MB)
    Now a quick resize to under 2Gigs and my Windold 98 is happy.
    Of course it's never gonna work Hyperthreading, but Linux does.

    ASUS made another happy customer with such nifty legacy OSs support in BIOS.
    Happy ending.
    Every end is just a new beginning. :)
     
    James Bald, Jun 5, 2004
    #8
  9. James Bald

    Paul Guest

    Yeah, before you enter the store, know exactly what you want to buy
    and stick with your choice. The store only wants to sell their
    existing stock. Like my local store didn't have the PS I wanted,
    and via the Internet, in 24hr, I had the one I wanted. That was
    from NCIX. (Don't shop there at Christmas, if you are on a
    deadline :)
    The good stuff was BH-5, where the 5 means 5ns, inverted this is
    200MHz or DDR400. Mushkin is currently selling some modules with
    BH-6 chips, which is 166MHz or DDR333, and they select the ones
    that run at DDR400, because they are really the same chips, just
    speed dropouts from the BH-5. Takes a good bit of voltage applied
    to the DIMM to get it to work properly, but it does 2-2-2-5 when
    it works. The Winbond CH5 wasn't nearly as good a product - they
    "broke the mold" so to speak, and are no longer in the DRAM business
    I hear.
    Well, people aren't completely fair when it comes to reputations,
    as some of the less respected boards, do actually work. But you
    would need the courage of your convictions to buy one. Once a
    chipset company ruins its reputation, by shipping crap, it is
    impossible to get that reputation back, at least in a short time.
    Those people are in need of a guru. Some of the symptoms they are
    seeing, point to other things. You have to remember how the
    "System failed CPU test" message is generated - it is a simple
    hardware timer, that if the BIOS code doesn't execute a certain
    section of code in a specified time, the message will be delivered
    by the Voice POST. Because it is a timer, and is not based on the
    processor actually running, there are a number of things that can
    cause the message to be generated. In a sense, the message is a
    waste of time, in terms of diagnostic value.

    As for the power supply thing, there are two cases to consider.
    For some of those people, they could have a highly rated supply,
    that has just become "tired". If the caps are failing inside
    the PSU, the PSU might no longer be capable of meeting its
    specs. That is one reason for a failure. In other cases, there
    are outright frauds, or PSUs that, while having high total
    outputs, lack balance between outputs. One company used to
    make a 500+ watt supply, with a [email protected] output, which is useless
    for a P4 system.

    Since I just bought a 480W supply for a new system, and I did a
    few measurements (I'm not finished yet), I didn't find the power
    requirements to be as high as I expected. While sitting in the
    BIOS, for example, the power drawn by the processor is higher
    than sitting idle in Windows, but is a bit less than running 100%
    load as well. Under those conditions, it is quite likely that a
    well designed 350W could get the system to POST, so there has to
    be more to the problems stated in that thread than meets the eye.
    My only comment about the card, is that the idle power consumption
    is higher than I expected. I thought when the card isn't doing
    3D acceleration, the power wasted should be quite small, but that
    turned out not to be the case. The good news, is the 9800Pro draws
    [email protected] and [email protected] or so, when doing 3DMark, and that is less than
    estimates I've been giving to people in the past, as advice.

    If you buy one of these cards, feel the two inductors in the center
    of the card, near the top edge of the card. Run 3DMark or a game, and
    feel them. They get hot. I've placed a fan blowing on the card for
    now, until I can think of something else to do for those inductors.

    Have you seen this item ?
    http://www.anandtech.com/news/shownews.html?i=22254

    Corsair has a 2-2-2-5 PC3200 memory (TwinX1024-3200XL), that can also
    do 2.5-3-3-7 at PC4000. I'd wait for some people to test it first, as
    "cherry picked" ram used for reviews is not necessarily the best
    indicator of value.

    As for technique, if you need a system with four DIMMs in it,
    then using the 5:4 divider, and expecting a limit of around DDR440
    before the ram bus runs out of steam, is reasonable. If you can live
    with two sticks of memory, using 1:1 divider and running at DDR500
    (PC4000) is the way to go, because it takes a lot of small tweaks to
    catch up with the 25% clock rate improvement. It is a tough choice
    to have to make, and which way you go depends on the application for
    the machine. For Photoshop, I would want the four sticks.
    For raw overclocking data, try here:

    http://www.cpudatabase.com/CPUdb/

    I've only tried once with my new system, and had to clear CMOS to
    recover, so for now I'll be leaving the overclocking alone :)
    Don't be deceived by the BIOS claiming a "corrupted checksum",
    as too high an overclock simply causes corruption while reading
    the flash chip. Clearing the CMOS (with the power plug pulled
    from the computer) will fix it - ignore the screen when it asks
    to reflash the BIOS, as reflashing is NOT needed.
    I'm just a guy with time on his hands. (Unemployed)
    You can use the search engine on this forum. Here is a sample
    thread.

    http://abxzone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60801&highlight=p4p800+rev2.0

    One thing to be aware of, on the P4P800 in general, is there can
    be video artifacts, if doing 1:1 overclock with PC4000 type memory.
    The same doesn't happen with P4C800, or with very early P4P800 boards
    either (as it is believed the early P4P800 boards had chips that
    were good enough to have been 875's). Some overclockers shop by date
    code on Ebay, to try to find those early boards. So the latest
    revision is not alway the most treasured revision - it all depends
    on what you plan on doing with the board. No problem with P4P800 with
    stock settings, or overclocking at 5:4 ratio.
    Have fun,
    Paul
     
    Paul, Jun 5, 2004
    #9
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