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Need 8/16-bit micro with >=32K Flash and external data bus

Discussion in 'Embedded' started by chris, Sep 3, 2003.

  1. chris

    chris Guest

    Hi all.
    I am having a really hard time looking for an 8/16-bit micro with 32kB
    flash and external data bus. The other criteria is under $10 (1000
    pcs) and JTAG debug support. Any suggestions? The Motorola MC9S12
    (HCS12) series is looking good right now, but still a bit expensive.
    Looking at Renesas (Hitachi and Mitsubishi) but I'm concerned about
    availability and support. Looked at Cygnal but way too expensive for
    an 8-bit.

    Does anyone have experience with Cygnal? Do they drop their price at
    all? Their 8-bitters go for as much as 16-bit procs.

    Chris
     
    chris, Sep 3, 2003
    #1
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  2. Maybe Ubicom IP2022 (120/160Mhz Risc and VERY fast, only 4.8Mhz external
    clock, 8Bit, 64kB Flash, <10$/1000pc).
    But no JTAG and Devboard+Compiler ist fairly expensive (about $2500 I
    think).

    Regards,
     
    Bernhard Roessmann, Sep 3, 2003
    #2
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  3. How about the AVR ATMega128 ? It has 128K of flash with an external
    data bus. The external bus has only 16 Address lines, and can be used
    for peripherals and RAM only. (No external Code). It has the JTAG
    debugging as well, and as a bonus you can use GCC to develop
    your code.

    Regards
    Anton Erasmus
     
    Anton Erasmus, Sep 3, 2003
    #3
  4. chris

    Dave Hansen Guest

    Have you looked at Atmel's AVRs, particularly the ATmega64? It has
    more flash than you need (64k), 4k RAM on-board, up to 64k external
    memory space, and JTAG debug. Digikey price is about US$8.50 for 100
    -- I'm sure you can do better. Tool support is good (avr-gcc works
    well, CodeVisionAVR is cheap and easy, IAR and Imagcraft also have
    tools).

    Of course, using the external memory interface chews up some of your
    I/O, and you've only got 64 pins to start with. But it's a nice line
    of chips to work with.

    Regards,

    -=Dave
     
    Dave Hansen, Sep 3, 2003
    #4
  5. chris

    Jan Homuth Guest

    Chris,
    check out the Renesas M16C62. (www.renesas.com)
    They are available in any quantity from many distributors.
    (check out: www.glyn.de )

    Glyn Support is excellent. And they sell any quantity. No matter if you want
    10, 100 or 1000.

    Plenty of Appnotes available for the M16C.

    regards
    /jan
     
    Jan Homuth, Sep 3, 2003
    #5
  6. chris

    Jack Klein Guest

    What's expensive about the HCS12? The D64J with 64K Flash, 4K RAM, 1K
    EEPROM, 2 10-bit A/D's (total 16 channels), 2 UARTs, SPI, CAN, PWM's,
    and all sorts of goodies, and (about, I'm at home now) $7.85 in the
    big package for 1K.

    The eval board with BDM cable and limited version of CodeWarrior is
    $495, and you can upgrade it to 32K executables for $500, 64K
    executables for $1000. And there are other, less expensive compilers
    that will work with the eval board (and your target, if you put the
    BDM header on it).

    There's an upcoming (or already shipping) 32K Flash/2K RAM part with
    less I/O under $6.00. There might be other low price versions also, I
    was only looking at the ones with CAN 2.0B on board.

    We're using the D64J as one of the controllers in a multiple board,
    multiple processor product development right now, and so far we are
    quite happy with it.

    --
    Jack Klein
    Home: http://JK-Technology.Com
    FAQs for
    comp.lang.c http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
    comp.lang.c++ http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/
    alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++ ftp://snurse-l.org/pub/acllc-c++/faq
     
    Jack Klein, Sep 4, 2003
    #6
  7. chris

    Jack Klein Guest

    What's expensive about the HCS12? The D64J with 64K Flash, 4K RAM, 1K
    EEPROM, 2 10-bit A/D's (total 16 channels), 2 UARTs, SPI, CAN, PWM's,
    and all sorts of goodies, and (about, I'm at home now) $7.85 in the
    big package for 1K.

    The eval board with BDM cable and limited version of CodeWarrior is
    $495, and you can upgrade it to 32K executables for $500, 64K
    executables for $1000. And there are other, less expensive compilers
    that will work with the eval board (and your target, if you put the
    BDM header on it).

    There's an upcoming (or already shipping) 32K Flash/2K RAM part with
    less I/O under $6.00. There might be other low price versions also, I
    was only looking at the ones with CAN 2.0B on board.

    We're using the D64J as one of the controllers in a multiple board,
    multiple processor product development right now, and so far we are
    quite happy with it.

    --
    Jack Klein
    Home: http://JK-Technology.Com
    FAQs for
    comp.lang.c http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
    comp.lang.c++ http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/
    alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++ ftp://snurse-l.org/pub/acllc-c++/faq
     
    Jack Klein, Sep 4, 2003
    #7

  8. Have a look at Zilog's Acclaim series, especially F93.

    Maciek.
     
    Maciej Sawicki, Sep 4, 2003
    #8
  9. chris

    chris Guest

    Thanks all for your help.
    I am currently leaning towards the ATMega64 if I can make do with an
    8-bit MCU. Otherwise, I am leaning towards the Motorola MC9S12D64. It
    is about $3-5 more than the ATMega64 which may make a difference later
    on. However my greatest concern is getting this thing up and running.

    I was also looking at the Mitsubishi M16C and it does have what I was
    looking for. Unfortunately, that and the H8 Tiny do not have JTAG
    debug circuitry and I cant afford to shell out money for an ICE.

    Spent a lot of time up some dead ends too. I had originally thought
    the TI MSP430 had an external data bus but I was wrong. That hurt,
    since I thought it had everything I had wanted and was low power and
    cheap, too.

    Thanks again for the help everyone. Does anyone know a quick reference
    on the web for this kind of information? It is so painful to look for
    these manufacturers one by one.
    Chris
     
    chris, Sep 4, 2003
    #9
  10. Everyone drops their prices, if the volumes are high enough :)

    You could also look at these C51 core alternatives

    STm uPSD3xxx family - this lists from $5.50-$8.95 region at future,
    and has JTAG.isp, uC and lots of FLASH.EE.RAM.USB

    Not clear on the JTAG_debug status, but with all the code space, and
    USB, seems a USB-ICE would be possible :)

    Sharp LZ87010 I think has a debug channel

    -jg
     
    Jim Granville, Sep 4, 2003
    #10
  11. Found this press release from Sept 2002, so part should be just
    about real now :) - anyone used these yet ?
    -jg
     
    Jim Granville, Sep 4, 2003
    #11
  12. M16C62 has a free serial monitor / debugger that uses internal address
    decode logic to provide to up to two (maybe more in latest series such as
    62P) hardware breakpoints.
    You can single step, run, halt, inspect variables, change them.
    Much like a JTAG debugger, with some limitations.

    Just completed two big projects (>100K binary) without any problem.
     
    Antonio Pasini, Sep 4, 2003
    #12
  13. chris

    Markus Zingg Guest

    I was also looking at the Mitsubishi M16C and it does have what I was
    I would second that, but "without any problem" is a bit too
    optimistic. The compiler has some minor quirks (that said in rare
    cases it compiles things so as you must rearange your code to have it
    work ok), and the debugger must be used in the so called "free running
    mode" if you use interrupts intensively or else it hangs every now and
    then. But again, apart from these little quirks, you get quite a good
    thing for very few money. Your price idea is reasonable but it depends
    on the kind of cpu you end up with.

    Markus
     
    Markus Zingg, Sep 4, 2003
    #13
  14. chris

    Schwob Guest

    Philips offers a 32-bit micro based on ARM 7 with 128k flash and 16k
    RAM. However external bus is a little tricky, would need to do this
    with some I/O pins in software. According to the Philips press release
    devices are aroun $5 for lots of 10k through distribution in the US.
    Availability seems finally to become real, though the start was a
    little slow.

    Some information can be found here (seems to be somebody who got
    samples early):
    http://www.lpc2100.com

    Cheers, Schwob
     
    Schwob, Sep 5, 2003
    #14
  15. chris

    rickman Guest

    There's nothing like coming late to a party...

    Don't bother with the Philips part if you need an external bus. OKI has
    two families of ARM7s with 16 bit external expansion busses. The
    ML67Q4002/3 have lots of on chip peripherals, 32 KB of RAM and 256 or
    512 KB of Flash running at 33 MHz. The ML67Q5002/3 have the same
    features and runs at 60 MHz.

    The Q400x are out now and the Q500x will be shipping next month. We are
    using the Q5003 on a new DSP board we are doing. Nohau will be selling
    an eval board for the Q5003 then as well.

    The low end price at qty 1000 is about $8 and the high end price is
    about $11, IIRC. Unique and NuHorizons are distis.

    Let us know what you end up with.

    --

    Rick "rickman" Collins


    Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY
    removed.

    Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company
    Specializing in DSP and FPGA design URL http://www.arius.com
    4 King Ave 301-682-7772 Voice
    Frederick, MD 21701-3110 301-682-7666 FAX
     
    rickman, Oct 17, 2003
    #15
  16. chris

    Bill Knight Guest

    It may be a tiny bit expensive but you may want to have a look at the
    Atmel AT91FR40162. It is listed in Digikey at $14.34 (in 1's - I
    think). It is their AT91R40008 co-packaged with a flash part. That
    gives you a 70MHz ARM7 with 256KB of static RAM and 2 MB of flash in a
    single 121-BGA.

    Hope this helps.
    -Bill Knight
    R O SoftWare
     
    Bill Knight, Oct 17, 2003
    #16
  17. chris

    patrick Guest

    You might also check out the eZ80 Acclaim line. They look like a very
    capable line, and you can get the development kit for less than $100!

    See http://www.zilog.com/products/family.asp?fam=226

    ========= For LAN/WAN Protocol Analysis, check out PacketView Pro! =========
    Patrick Klos Email:
    Klos Technologies, Inc. Web: http://www.klos.com/
    ===== Why do I keep getting "one time mailings" over and over again?!? =====
     
    patrick, Oct 17, 2003
    #17
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