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need AGP video card recommendation for older system - please help

Discussion in 'ATI' started by Adam, Oct 20, 2012.

  1. Adam

    Adam Guest

    Looking for a quality but cheap AGP video card (off eBay) to replace ...

    - ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB DDR 256Bit AGP Video Card

    This is for an old Asus A7V133 system.

    Any recommendations?
    Adam, Oct 20, 2012
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  2. Adam

    Paul Guest

    Since it's Ebay, you could go for a 7600 GT AGP.


    That's about $100 for the ones I could find.

    Newegg has a new (ATI based) HD 4670 AGP for around the
    same money, but the problem with later generation cards
    is drivers. (Sometimes there is only one "good" driver,
    for late model AGP cards.) You always want to check for
    driver complaints, no matter what card you end up shopping for.


    The comparison of the HD 4670 is here.


    The power drawn by the HD 4670 is around 47 watts. Plus
    you'd have to add some watts (maybe 5W or so) for the HSI chip.
    There are limits as to how much AGP can draw, even using
    a Molex connector. (I had an ATI 9800Pro die, because the
    Molex connector +5V pin burned on it. I fixed it, by soldering
    a Molex cable right to the video card, and it worked just
    fine that way until the card was eventually retired. The
    burning happened, because of a cheap Chinese Molex which
    fit loosely when plugged in. My own fault for not
    rectifying the fit problem when I had a chance.)


    If I had to guess, I'd put the 7600 GT power, somewhere
    around the same power as the 6600 GT, or about 48 watts.

    For comparison, some model of 9800 Pro here, is 47 watts.


    Paul, Oct 20, 2012
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  3. Adam

    Adam Guest

    Thanks (Guru Paul), my ATi Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB has
    the molex connector problem (burnt pin) that you mentioned.
    The video card works but not perfectly (broken lines are sometimes
    which is why I wanted to replace the video card. But,
    if fixing the molex connector problem will get rid of the broken lines,
    then I can avoid spending for another video card.
    Is there another way to fix without soldering, which I don't do.
    Maybe use a better quality female molex connector?
    Adam, Oct 20, 2012
  4. Adam

    Paul Guest

    I had no problem with video output. One day, I got the red warning
    rectangle on the screen, indicating that the Molex was no longer
    connected. I shut down immediately, and that's when I noticed the
    Molex (+5V pin) was burned. The other three pins were untouched.
    The card operated without a problem, until the power connection
    went open circuit.

    You can see the repair here. A solderable "metal can" sits
    over top of one of the legs of the connector, allowing the wire
    to be dropped in plus some solder. It was to avoid having to
    wrap the end of the red wire, around the exposed piece of
    leg on the solder side of the board. Since the red wire is
    now permanently affixed to the video card, whenever I
    move the video card, that cable goes with it. (It doesn't
    fit into the antistatic bag properly any more.)


    It wasn't the fault of the connector on the video card - it
    was the connector on the power supply that fit loosely.
    And that's why it burned.

    You can try repairing the power connection, then retest
    and see if any "video defects" go away. Make sure the
    fan is still working, as many video cards, the damage
    comes when the fan stops turning, and the heatsink gets
    so hot the fan body melts. And that's when the GPU
    gets "cooked".

    If you're not experienced with soldering, find someone
    else to do it. Take the video card, and a Molex "Y" cable
    to a radio/TV repair store, and see what they'll charge to
    "do the surgery". To do it right, you'd remove
    the solder from the four holes holding the legs of
    the connector in place. And then pop the four wires
    right through the holes. My fix was more of an "I don't
    care" style repair.

    Paul, Oct 20, 2012
  5. Adam

    Adam Guest

    Sure, I doubt that the video card manufacturer would
    use a cheap Molex connector on the video card.

    I may have unknowingly used cheap Molex extension connectors,
    which I'll try replacing first before soldering (which will make it
    difficult to swap video cards).

    A side question ... which ATI Radeon video card is this ...
    It doesn't look like an ATi Radeon 9800 Pro.
    Adam, Oct 20, 2012
  6. Adam

    Paul Guest

    It's a 9800 XT, out of a Dell.


    The 9800 XT gets an honorable mention here, and uses a different GPU (R360)


    While the chip number is changed, it doesn't look all that
    much different than a 9800 Pro listed here. The two seem
    almost identical, except for clock speed difference and
    more RAM on the newer card.



    Note that, the 9800 Pro is universal keyed, and can fit
    in a 1.5V or 3.3V slot. The keys in the slot control card


    The 9800 XT on the other hand, is a 1.5V only card. It only
    has one slot to fit a key.


    It's funny, that while the 9800 Pro has a 3.3V slot cut in it,
    when I plugged mine into a 3.3V only AGP motherboard (P2B-S),
    the machine would not post. Nothing was damaged. I think
    I got a beep code. So if the card is "universal", it
    isn't "that universal" :-(

    Your slot is AGP Pro, where the front and back section
    of pins, carry extra power. The center section matches
    the "normal" set of AGP pins. And there are no keys that
    I can see in your slot, in that section. And that means
    either a 1.5V or a 3.3V card will fit. So the 9800 XT should
    not be a problem.

    Before you buy the 9800 XT, do some Googling first to see
    whether there are problems or not.

    Paul, Oct 20, 2012
  7. Adam

    Adam Guest

    Thanks (Guru Paul), what's the best way to clean up the burned Molex
    Adam, Oct 20, 2012
  8. Adam

    Adam Guest

    I replaced the burned Molex extension cable with a new one.
    However, when the video card was connected to
    the new Molex extension cable, I got the following message ...

    "You have not connected the power extension cable to
    your Radeon 9800 video card
    Please refer to the "Getting Started Guide" for
    proper hardware installation !!!"

    So, I connected the video card "directly" to the power supply,
    which successfully circumvented the message. But,
    video defects still exist with the new Molex extension cable.
    Could the problem be an insufficient power supply?
    I have the following ...

    AGI HP-250NLXAA 250W 60/50Hz ATX Power Supply
    Adam, Oct 20, 2012
  9. Adam

    Paul Guest

    You cannot "clean up" a burned connector.

    I learned this the hard way, on a $6000 piece of equipment at work.

    Initially, I thought you could clean connectors too, but I was wrong.

    The machine had an internal defect, and a burned connector. I tried
    several times to "clean" the pins of the black burnt stuff. The deal is,
    once the metal changes from shiny and smooth, to heat-stressed
    slightly whitish finish, the resistance of the pin has gone
    up permanently. It's like the nice metal finish on the pin
    is gone. You have to replace both the male and female
    connector parts, so new shiny pins are present on both sides.
    On the machine in the lab, I just soldered the two bits
    to each other, because I was sick of opening the thing up
    over and over again. Once I soldered the thing, I had
    no more trouble with it.

    So instead of pulling the Molex off the video card, I soldered
    the +5V wire to the backside of the Molex. This was to save me
    the trouble of using a solder sucker and pulling the solder
    out of all four of the Molex holes. The other three Molex
    pins were undamaged. So my repair method was "additive",
    and didn't involve removing any solder from the video card.
    Sometimes, the PCB gets damaged while you're removing
    solder, and I figured I'd avoid that by just soldering the
    wire (as shown in the photograph). The reason for the hollow
    vertical metal thing, was so there wouldn't be any wire draping
    around the pin. By elevating the solder joint, it puts more
    mechanical stress on the base, where the metal thing joins
    to the card, and I have to be careful not to tug on the cable
    too hard. It's to avoid the potential for a short circuit,
    if I soldered closer to the card itself.

    The pin and wire carry 5V at around 5 amps on the 9800 Pro.
    The Molex pin is capable of carrying a bit more than that
    (perhaps up to 8 amps). But the pin surfaces must be
    "new virgin material" for that to work. If the pins are damaged,
    doing a little cleaning on them is not going to make them happy
    to carry 5 amps again.

    I don't know where your video defects are coming from. There
    were some Nvidia chips, were broken solder balls on the GPU
    caused video problems. If the fan dies on a video card and
    the GPU overheats, that can cause permanent defects. Sometimes
    lines on a monitor, are actually a *monitor* problem. It really
    depends on how the lines look, as to which part of the
    gear you would suspect as defective. On an LCD monitor, defective
    matrix drivers on the LCD panel, can cause solid vertical lines
    to appear on the display.

    Paul, Oct 21, 2012
  10. Adam

    Adam Guest

    Okay, let me see if I can get someone to do a similar soldering solution.
    If not, it may be better to swap out this AGP video card.
    The video defects are definitely coming from this AGP video card,
    which now has a heatsink part attached (since the fan failed).
    The video defects disappear when another PCI video card is swapped in.
    Adam, Oct 21, 2012
  11. Adam

    Paul Guest

    If you already had a fan failure on the video card (the fan
    was not spinning for some period of time), the GPU could
    already have overheated. Fitting another fan or cooler, if
    the abusive situation lasted long enough, isn't going to fix
    it. The chip could be damaged.

    Paul, Oct 21, 2012
  12. Adam

    Adam Guest

    If fan failures are still common these days,
    what's the best preventative measure to take with new video cards?
    Keep the case open and aim an external fan at the video card?
    I ask because I'm about to put together a new build and
    I don't want fan failure to damage another video card.
    Adam, Oct 21, 2012
  13. Adam

    Paul Guest

    I've done that. But not out of fear the fan would pack up.
    Sometimes I fit a fan in that area, just so a "cloud of
    hot air" doesn't collect around the video card.

    If you want to do your own cooling, you can buy "passive"
    cooled cards. They have a large heatpipe based cooler.
    You can mount an 80mm fan next to the passive cooler, and
    cool the card that way.

    You can also buy after-market passive coolers, and replace
    a fan based cooler. But that's more work, and has an
    element of risk to it (if you're a butterfingers).


    This is an example of a fanless AGP, but it's not a strong
    card, and not gamer material. When I bought two cards of
    this nature, one was stable without using a fan, while the
    other card wasn't happy unless the 80mm fan was located
    next to it. This card is cheap, low power, and the cooler
    doesn't even use a heatpipe. It's a plain extruded aluminum


    This is an example of a PCI Express with a passive cooler.
    At least this one, doesn't have too much trim to get in the
    way of the cooling air from your 80mm fan.


    When I locate the 80mm fan, it is suspended from the computer
    case. I don't "bolt the fan to the video card", because
    depending on the weight, it might make the card bend downwards
    a bit when the computer tower case is upright. I make a
    mechanical solution, using the screw heads on the PCI slots for
    support. And the fan bolts to the arm I make out of aluminum
    angle iron.

    Paul, Oct 21, 2012
  14. Adam

    Adam Guest

    For Sapphire AMD Radeon HD 6850,
    one of the Accelero Twin Turbo models will probably suffice.
    Not sure why the Accelero Twin Turbo PRO has better reviews even though
    cooling capacity is lower.

    Adam, Oct 21, 2012
  15. Adam

    Rene Guest

    On Ebay there are also several 7950GT cards which are nice as well, that
    may be an option too.

    Good luck!

    Rene, Oct 21, 2012
  16. Adam

    Paul Guest

    Paul, Oct 21, 2012
  17. Adam

    Adam Guest

    Thanks (Rene), will keep that in mind.
    Adam, Oct 21, 2012
  18. Adam

    Adam Guest

    Thanks (Guru Paul), I saw an image of the stock cooler on my 6850 video
    which should be good enough initially. Also saw some interesting
    temperature comparisons.
    Will have to wait until after installation. Only problem is ... I can't
    decide on
    which mobo/CPU to get, which is holding up the show.
    Adam, Oct 21, 2012
  19. Adam

    Buffalo Guest

    What OS are you running?
    Buffalo, Oct 22, 2012
  20. Adam

    Adam Guest

    Host OS: Ubuntu 10.04 LTS
    Guest OS: Windows XP Pro SP3

    Adam, Oct 22, 2012
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