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New PCI card on old motherboard

Discussion in 'Intel' started by Grumble, Nov 27, 2004.

  1. Grumble

    Grumble Guest

    Hello all,

    I've (finally) hopped on the Wi-Fi bandwagon, and bought, among other
    gear, a pair of PCI 802.11g network adapters.

    Problem is, the PCI card is properly detected on my recent motherboard
    (2001 ASUS A7V133-C SocketA) but *NOT* on my older motherboard (1997
    ASUS P/I-P55T2P4 Socket7).

    I've tried 3 different PCI slots, removed all ISA cards, increased the
    PCI bus latency (whatever that does)... Still the card does not show up
    in the BIOS summary (right before the OS boots). I've loaded Knoppix,
    and, unsurprisingly, lspci does not see the adapter either (I thought
    Linux might perform initialization which the BIOS forgot).

    Is it possible that recent PCI cards DO NOT WORK plain and simple in
    older motherboards? Isn't there some kind of backward compatibility?

    P.S. why is the old Socket7 called Socket7? It's not like the CPU only
    has 7 pins, right?
     
    Grumble, Nov 27, 2004
    #1
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  2. Grumble

    keith Guest

    Nice. ...haven't gone there yet. I opened up the walls and ran a CAT-5
    and RG6 to my "office" (there are advantages to having the kid move out
    ;-).
    The PCI bus latence timer has nothing to do with the congiguration phase.
    Basically, the PCI latency timer is the *minimum* time-slot (in PCI
    cocks) that a device is alowed to "hog" the bus. Once the bus has been
    granted (GNT# active) to a device the timer starts. If the bus arbiter
    then decides to grant access to another device (GNT# de-asserted) the
    first device does *not* have to give up the bus until the latency timer
    goes to zero. If it's already zero it must immediately fork over access
    to the bus.

    It's not your problem (though you went the wrong way with it ;-).
    Have you seen this with any other cards? What chipset (Northbridge)?
    It's certainly possible.

    <straw_grasping_mode>
    Is it a "universal" PCI card or is it a 5V card. It's possible it's
    intended for 3.3V PCI?
    ....umm because it came after Socket-6 (PPro), Socket-5 (early Pentia -
    single supply), Socket-4 (486)? ;-)
     
    keith, Nov 27, 2004
    #2
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  3. Ah the famous P55T2P4. Are you running standard clocking and have you
    checked your BIOS to make sure it's the last one issued?
    Sometimes cards just don't/didn't show in the BIOS summary list - no idea
    why. Do you have PnP OS enabled in the BIOS Setup? That could prevent the
    BIOS from do a full enumeration of PnP... i.e. leaving it to the OS to
    figure out. I don't recall if the P55T2P4 BIOS had a "Reset Configuration"
    or "Clear NVRAM" option - worth a try if it does. Also try disabling
    something, like COM2 to make sure an IRQ is free.
    PnP was kinda half-baked back then, with the P55T2P4. I recall having
    monumental "quarrels" with it, on some mbrds, where it would not release
    resources back after they'd been assigned to a card which had subsequently
    been removed. In one case I had to remove everything and boot it with a
    bare config... to "give it a jolt"... and then put things back in an order
    which got the dissenting card recognized before others.

    Rgds, George Macdonald

    "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
     
    George Macdonald, Nov 27, 2004
    #3
  4. Grumble

    Ed Guest

    IOW if setting the IRQ manually in the BIOS for the slot the card is in
    to an IRQ that is not already in use/shared by other devices might help?

    Ed
     
    Ed, Nov 27, 2004
    #4
  5. Grumble

    RusH Guest

    I've (finally) hopped on the Wi-Fi bandwagon, and bought, among
    lack of PCI 2.1 or something, it wont work


    Pozdrawiam.
     
    RusH, Nov 27, 2004
    #5
  6. Grumble

    nobody Guest

    ....snip...
    IIRC, Socket4 was for bigger, 5V Pentium 60/66 - the ones with
    (in)famous FDIV bug.
    486 used Socket3
     
    nobody, Nov 28, 2004
    #6
  7. Grumble

    keith Guest

    You're probably right. When one gets old... ;-)
     
    keith, Nov 28, 2004
    #7
  8. Grumble

    keith Guest

    Were it junt an IRQ issue, the card would still show up in the
    configuration.
     
    keith, Nov 28, 2004
    #8
  9. Grumble

    keith Guest

    The differences between 2.0, 2.1, and 2.2 are rather trivial. There's
    nothing in there that would cause your problems.
     
    keith, Nov 28, 2004
    #9
  10. Grumble

    RusH Guest

    not my problems :) and those trivial differences make day and night
    when it comes to wifi cards. I work as WISP consultant, its a common
    problem. Just like USB2 cards - they dont work in Pentium 1
    motherboards.


    Pozdrawiam.
     
    RusH, Nov 28, 2004
    #10
  11. Grumble

    Grumble Guest

    The card I tested was an MSI PC54G2:
    http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/communication/cmu/pro_cmu_detail.php?UID=584
    http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=PC54G2

    NOTE: It was the cheapest I could find ;-)

    Do you think I'll have problems with every PCI 802.11g card,
    or is there one that might work with the P55T2P4?
     
    Grumble, Nov 28, 2004
    #11
  12. Grumble

    RusH Guest

    there are like 5 makers on the Taiwan, the rest of the band are just
    sticker monkeys, no mater what you buy, you will end up with
    Globalsuntech or one of other OEMs
    the cheapest AP goes for 30$, G starts at 50$ I think. Linksys WAP54G
    is ok for the price, very stable + you can make your custom firmware
    (mips running Linux).

    Pozdrawiam.
     
    RusH, Nov 28, 2004
    #12
  13. Grumble

    vvv Guest

    Yes.. the problem is PCI version incompability...

    PCI wifi cards need PCI 2.2 or newer.

    And those older boards are only PCI 2.1 compliant.

    How do I know? I had the same problem with my BX chipset motherboard with a
    PCI wireless card.
     
    vvv, Nov 28, 2004
    #13
  14. Grumble

    keith Guest

    Oops! ;-)
    The differences between these PCI levels have nothing to do with the
    configuration cycles. I don't remember all of them (My fourth edition
    Shanley and Anderson is at work), but some were things like cachable
    memory allowed in 2.0, discourraged in 2.1, and forbidden in 2.2. I'd
    have to look up the complete list.

    BTW, P5 motherboards didn't like USB1.x either. ;-)
     
    keith, Nov 28, 2004
    #14
  15. Grumble

    keith Guest

    Hmm, after a quick web search, it appears there is a problem with some
    WiFi (Netgear in particular) and other than PCI 2.2. Indeed Netgear
    specifies a PCI 2.2 compliant system for the WG311.

    Now I'm curious. What is the issue (I've never seen a real difference
    before)? I'll have to read up on the differences between PCI 2.1 and 2.2
    tomorrow.
     
    keith, Nov 28, 2004
    #15
  16. Grumble

    Grumble Guest

    The PCI graphics card in my system, an old Diamond Monster Fusion with
    a 3dfx Voodoo Banshee chipset, works flawlessly.
    The P/I-P55T2P4 came with an Intel 430HX chipset, aka Triton 2:

    http://www.asus.com.tw/support/english/techref/430hx/index.aspx

    I found this page on Intel's site which lists the 430HX *ONLY* as PCI
    2.1 compliant, where newer chipsets are PCI 2.2 compliant:

    http://intel.com/design/chipsets/embedded/

    That sounds like bad news for my wireless aspirations, no? :)
    The data sheet states:
    Form Fator 32-bit PCI v2.2
    Operation Voltage 3.3V

    Would my motherboard support 3.3V or 5V?
     
    Grumble, Nov 28, 2004
    #16
  17. Grumble

    keith Guest

    Couldn't remember what chipset that model had. ...should have, since it
    was a goodie, in its day.
    The HX was 5V PCI only. That may be the issue right there. Though a
    3.3V only card should not fit in a 5V PCI slot. A 3.3V card has a keyway
    in positions 12 and 13 (5V has these grounded) and a 5V card has a keyway
    in positions 30 and 31 (3.3V card has these grounded). A "universal" card
    would have a keyway in both positions. Position 1 is at the rear of the
    case, so if you look at the slots in your T2P4 the key should be towards
    the front of the case (5V slot). Where are the keyways on the card?

    Keith
     
    keith, Nov 28, 2004
    #17
  18. Grumble

    RusH Guest

    P5 as this particular Asus or did you mean socket7 ?
    I never saw socket 7 board refusing to work with USB 1.1 PCI card
    (including HX).

    Pozdrawiam.
     
    RusH, Nov 28, 2004
    #18
  19. Grumble

    Grumble Guest

    I picked "LOAD BIOS DEFAULTS" in the BIOS, which I believe is even more
    conservative than "LOAD SETUP DEFAULTS". The BIOS has the most recent
    firmware version available (v0207).

    http://www.asus.com.tw/support/download/item.aspx?ModelName=P/I-P55T2P4
    PnP OS is set to 'No' (I'll try 'Yes' to see what difference it makes).
    Thanks for your suggestions. Unfortunately, they didn't seem to do the
    trick. I think the motherboard just won't take any PCI 2.2 cards :-(
     
    Grumble, Nov 28, 2004
    #19
  20. Grumble

    RusH Guest

    http://www.pcisig.com/specifications/conventional/conventional_pci/2_
    2sum1215.pdf

    The fact is even those wifi card that are specified to work in 2.1/2.2
    PCI have problems with 2.1.

    Pozdrawiam.
     
    RusH, Nov 28, 2004
    #20
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