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Newb: How copy p hidden partition onto new drive & what hard drive to get

Discussion in 'Laptops' started by Jesse, Mar 12, 2006.

  1. Jesse

    Jesse Guest

    Hello everyone.

    I have two questions:

    1. I have a Dell Inspiron notebook that has hidden partitions within my
    only Drive C (60 GB Toshiba 4200 rpm, 2MB). I want to backup just the
    hidden partition that allows me to re-establash my Dell to the way it
    was when I first bought it. I also want to copy this hidden partition
    to a new non Toshiba hard drive. I have both Ghost and Acronis. I
    prefer to use Acronis as it is more user friendly. I dont know how to
    go about doing this.

    2. I would like a cooler but faster, bigger hard drive. Any suggestions
    on one? BTW, I am in Canada so I would prefer a drive that most
    retailers carry but is reliable. Any suggestions?

    Here are my specs on my drive C:

    *Dell Utility Pri 39.2 MB
    C: NTFS Prim Boot 53,599 MB
    CP/M Prim 3584.8 MB
    Unall Prim 7.8 MB

    Thanks in advance.
     
    Jesse, Mar 12, 2006
    #1
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  2. Jesse

    Rod Speed Guest

    The simplest approach is to use Acronis, clone the entire physical
    drive, and then delete the non hidden partition(s) once its cloned.

    Its not that easy with a notebook tho, basically because you cant have
    both the old and the new drive in the notebook at once with most notebooks.

    So you need to image the original drive to say a desktop over
    the lan, replace the drive with the new one and restore that
    image from the desktop over the lan. Then delete the non
    hidden partition(s) you dont want and install what you want.

    Gets more tricky if you dont have a desktop
    system with enough room on it, but still possible.
    Yeah, those low end Dells do run the drives right
    on the edge of what the hard drive manufacturer
    allows temperature wise. Not good for the drive at all.
    Thats harder. There arent all that many drives that
    will take less power than the current one when the
    new one is bigger than the original. Samsung maybe.
    Fraid not for one that satisfys both criteria.
     
    Rod Speed, Mar 12, 2006
    #2
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  3. Re: "Its not that easy with a notebook tho, basically because you cant
    have both the old and the new drive in the notebook at once with most
    notebooks."

    Not true, since the latest versions of the imaging programs will
    recognize external USB drives.

    For the original poster:

    With regard to heat, heat = power consumption, and virtually all current
    drives are spec'd at 5 volts at 500ma (2.5 watts), which is [not
    coincidently] the spec for power available from a powered USB port.
    Some may draw less only by going into a "standby" mode when not being used.

    Also, your terminology is incorrect and may cause confustion to this
    extent: you say "I have a Dell Inspiron notebook that has hidden
    partitions within my only Drive C (60 GB Toshiba 4200 rpm, 2MB)"

    Drive "C:" refers only to the active, visible partition that the OS
    recognizes as drive C:. It is not a reference to the entire physical
    hard drive. By definition, there can be no "partitions within Drive C".
    Drive C: itself is a partition within the entire physical drive.
     
    Barry Watzman, Mar 12, 2006
    #3
  4. Jesse

    Beemer Biker Guest

    Rod has pretty much explained it. I might add that you should clean your
    disk and run defrag first. if you got XP then set a system restore point
    and when you run clean disk be sure to have it delete all restore points
    except the most recent. This is an option you must select or you will back
    backing up your restores which might include virii if you ever had an
    infection in the past. Clear off history, cookies, scan for virus with
    latest updates. This might be a good opportunity to clean out your disk and
    defrag. If you got a bunch of music, movies, iso images, they dont compress
    good and you might end up with a really huge acronis backup.

    You seem set on getting a bigger disk. 60gb is a pretty large disk for a
    notebook even one haveing dual boot. If it is really full, a backup might
    be 10 or so dvds in size and the more disks in the backup set the more
    likely a blemish can ruin your backup. If you got a modern notebook and
    have firewire or usb2.0 you might consider getting external firewire or 2.0
    drive. Then you can get 250...400 gb disk fairly cheap. If you got an
    older notebook (i got a couple of p3 700 thinkpads) then ebay has really
    cheap docking stations.
     
    Beemer Biker, Mar 12, 2006
    #4
  5. Jesse

    Rod Speed Guest

    Fraid so.
    You dont even know that he has one.
    Wrong again. They are all spec'd at that for a MAXIMUM.

    What matters with those low end Dells is how much they actually take.
    And some draw less even when not in standby.
     
    Rod Speed, Mar 12, 2006
    #5
  6. Jesse

    Rod Speed Guest

    No point if you're gunna delete the non hidden partitions.
    He appears to want to delete everything except the hidden partition.

    And its not a great idea to do a cleanup without an image too.
     
    Rod Speed, Mar 12, 2006
    #6
  7. Jesse

    Beemer Biker Guest

    acronis has had the ability to backup across usb or firewire for some time.
    It is supported in the OS. Restoring is a totally different matter. You
    boot a cd to restore. Acronis uses (as I recall) lilo, a linux boot. You
    dont have XP, win2k. Acronis can find a network and restore from a
    "mcrosoft" network. I have done a number of restores and have observed
    first hand that acronis willl not see a usb or firewire drive. Maybe a
    motherboard that supports booting of the USB will have enough hooks so that
    acronis willl see a usb drive.

    So are you saying that the latest acronis can restore from a USB drive? If
    so, I will look at doing that again. I think you mean acronis can backup to
    usb rather than restore????
     
    Beemer Biker, Mar 12, 2006
    #7
  8. Jesse

    Jesse Guest

    Rod Speed wrote:
    :
    : The simplest approach is to use Acronis, clone the entire physical
    : drive, and then delete the non hidden partition(s) once its cloned.
    :
    : Its not that easy with a notebook tho, basically because you cant have
    : both the old and the new drive in the notebook at once with most
    : notebooks.
    :
    : So you need to image the original drive to say a desktop over
    : the lan, replace the drive with the new one and restore that
    : image from the desktop over the lan. Then delete the non
    : hidden partition(s) you dont want and install what you want.

    I don't know if this forum can answer it or not, but I am just "writing
    outloud". Will my Dell know to reinstall my hidden partition "CP/M Prim
    3584.8 MB" if I don't install the other ones? Me thinks right now that
    maybe I should just create an entire image of the drive and then use PM
    to resize the main NTFS and keep everything as it is?
    :
    :: 2. I would like a cooler but faster, bigger hard drive.
    :
    : Yeah, those low end Dells do run the drives right
    : on the edge of what the hard drive manufacturer
    : allows temperature wise. Not good for the drive at all.

    I bought an el cheapo laptop cooler, but that doesnt help. I don't know
    anyone that actually uses a laptop cooler or if it makes any difference.
    I know Antech makes one: http://www.antec.com/us/pro_notebookcooler.html
    :
    :: Any suggestions on one?
    :
    : Thats harder. There arent all that many drives that
    : will take less power than the current one when the
    : new one is bigger than the original. Samsung maybe.

    Hmm. The reason I want a new hard drive is of course, due to capacity
    but also speed wise. I cant stand the speed of this 4200 rpm drive.
    Arggh!!
     
    Jesse, Mar 12, 2006
    #8
  9. Jesse

    Rod Speed Guest

    It isnt at all clear that that is what you need to keep.

    The Dell forums should know.
    Yes, that should work fine. Or just clone the entire physical
    drive, delete the NTFS partition after you have done that,
    and then image the NTFS partition and restore it to the
    new drive to occupy all the free space with Acronis.
    Yeah, the problem is the lousy design of
    those low end Dells hard drive cooling wise.
    I doubt it will help any.
    Yeah, its always what I notice with notebooks, the drive speed.
     
    Rod Speed, Mar 12, 2006
    #9
  10. *** I would use the disc that came with the laptop to prepare the new
    drive. It should set up the hidden partition and copy the appropriate
    files to it. After that, partition the drive as normal and transfer your
    operating system and files to it. Be aware that you may be required to use
    the DELL disc to do this partitioning as opposed to say, FDISK.

    *** What location? I am in Nova Scotia.

    Richard Bonner
    http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/
     
    Richard Bonner, Mar 12, 2006
    #10
  11. He doesn't need to restore from an exernal USB drive, only to be able to
    backup to it.

    Remember what he was going to do: Copy his existing partitions to an
    external larger drive, then put the larger drive into the computer
    replacing the smaller drive currently installed.

    As long as he can backup to the external USB drive (the new, larger
    drive) that's all that he need, because the subsequent use of that drive
    will be as an internal drive. There is no requirement to subsequently
    backup from the external USB drive.

    However, I do believe that Drive Image 7 can also do a restore from a
    USB drive, although it's irrelevant to this particular question.
     
    Barry Watzman, Mar 12, 2006
    #11
  12. Jesse

    J. Clarke Guest

    He said that he has a 60 GB 4200 RPM Toshiba. Toshiba lists only two such
    models, the current MK6025GAS and the older MK6021GAS, both of which have
    identical power consumption specifications. The Samsung HM120JC draws less
    power across the board, while the Hitachi 5K100 and Seagate Momentus
    5400.3 drives draw less in all areas except startup where they need .3
    watts more. The Hitachi 7K100 also draws less power across the board
    except for startup, where it requires 5.5 watts vs 4.7 for the Toshiba.
    Any of these should be cooler and all are larger and faster.

    Hitachi has an upgrade kit that includes a 5K100 and everything that is
    needed to do the drive swap including software--that's probably the closest
    thing available to a painless solution, but it's a bit pricey compared to a
    bare drive.
     
    J. Clarke, Mar 14, 2006
    #12
  13. Jesse

    Jesse Guest

    Rod Speed wrote:
    :: Me thinks right now that maybe I should just create an
    :: entire image of the drive and then use PM to resize the
    :: main NTFS and keep everything as it is?
    :
    : Yes, that should work fine. Or just clone the entire physical
    : drive, delete the NTFS partition after you have done that,
    : and then image the NTFS partition and restore it to the
    : new drive to occupy all the free space with Acronis.

    Hmm. You lost me with your second sentence on cloning and then deleting
    the partition and imaging it afterwards. Can all this be done within
    Acronis? Wouldn't I be taking a chance in deleting the partition that
    may affect the hidden partition when I may have to restore Windows and
    the partition again in case of an emergency within the Dell Utility? In
    essence, I will no longer have the original Dell partition?

    Wouldn't another way be to clone the drive and then use Partition Magic
    to change the size of the partition and then save it later for backup?
     
    Jesse, Mar 15, 2006
    #13
  14. Jesse

    Rod Speed Guest

    Sorry. Acronis wont clone just one partition on a physical drive.
    So you need to clone the entire physical drive, and delete the
    partitions you dont want on the clone. Then image the NTFS
    partition and restore that image to the free space on the clone.
    Dunno how the dell system works on that, but you can try
    that on the new drive, without doing anything to the original
    drive except clone it, and see if it works on the new drive.
    Yes you will. You're just deleting the NTFS
    partition, not the hidden dell partition.
    Sure.
     
    Rod Speed, Mar 15, 2006
    #14
  15. Jesse

    Notan Guest

    Wrong.

    I frequently clone single partitions.

    Notan
     
    Notan, Mar 15, 2006
    #15
  16. Jesse

    Jesse Guest

    Richard Bonner wrote:
    :
    : *** I would use the disc that came with the laptop to prepare the
    : new drive. It should set up the hidden partition and copy the
    : appropriate files to it. After that, partition the drive as normal
    : and transfer your operating system and files to it. Be aware that you
    : may be required to use the DELL disc to do this partitioning as
    : opposed to say, FDISK.
    : :: BTW, I am in Canada
    : : *** What location? I am in Nova Scotia.

    Thank you fellow Canuck. I have a few discs? Hmm. Would it be the
    Windows Disc? Or the one with that says "Reinstalling Inspiron System
    Software? BTW, I am in Vancouver.
     
    Jesse, Mar 15, 2006
    #16
  17. Jesse

    Jesse Guest

    Barry Watzman wrote:

    : For the original poster:
    :
    : With regard to heat, heat = power consumption, and virtually all
    : current drives are spec'd at 5 volts at 500ma (2.5 watts), which is
    : [not coincidently] the spec for power available from a powered USB
    : port.
    : Some may draw less only by going into a "standby" mode when not being
    : used.

    With the new Hitachi Travelstar 5K100 2.5 inch drives, the startup peak
    is 5.0 Watts Max while the Toshiba is 2.6. This is almost double.
    Which begs the question: can the motherboard and powersupply handle the
    additional power requirement, especially when using USB 2.0 add-on
    devices like external DVD burners and hard drives?
     
    Jesse, Mar 16, 2006
    #17
  18. Jesse

    Rod Speed Guest

    What matters with the drive temperature is
    the running current, not the startup current.
    Should be able to, its only an amp.
    Yes, its should still be fine.
     
    Rod Speed, Mar 16, 2006
    #18
  19. Jesse

    J. Clarke Guest

    Which Toshiba is that? The only 2.5" 60GB 4200 RPM Toshiba drive with 2 MB
    buffer that is listed on their site is the MK6021GAS, which according to
    the datasheet require 4.7 watts max at startup, not 2.6. It requires 2.6
    watts during seek.

    On the odd chance that it is a 1.8" drive I checked them and they show 1.8
    watts at startup.
     
    J. Clarke, Mar 16, 2006
    #19
  20. Jesse

    Jesse Guest

    Rod Speed wrote:
    ::
    :: With the new Hitachi Travelstar 5K100 2.5 inch drives,
    :: the startup peak is 5.0 Watts Max while the Toshiba is 2.6.
    :
    : What matters with the drive temperature is
    : the running current, not the startup current.

    Thanks. One final question, is it worth it at this time to go with a
    laptop 7200 rpm drive or stay with 5400 rpm due to heat issues?
     
    Jesse, Mar 17, 2006
    #20
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