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OC settings advice from the experts

Discussion in 'Overclocking' started by baj2k, Feb 9, 2005.

  1. baj2k

    baj2k Guest

    I'm new here. So first let me say hello and thanks in advance to all who
    spare a moment to provide their thoughts.

    I have an ABIT IS7 motherboard with a P4 3GHz/1MB over clocked and stable
    at 267Mhz. So my 3GHz CPU is running at 4.005GHz. I'm using the stock
    heat sink and fan on the CPU. I'm running Windows XP Home Edition. I have
    the following settings and temperatures at idle and at load while running
    Prime95 v2.38 at maximum torture settings:

    Bus setting: 267/76/38
    Memory: 5:4 (512x2 DDR PC3200) someday I'll get PC4000 and try 1:1
    AGP Setting: 7:2:1
    VCore: 1.6v (Prime95 produces errors at voltages below 1.56v)
    DDRcc: 2.70v
    +3.3: 3.3v

    Temperature at idle:

    Sys: 34c | CPU: 54.5 +/- 5c | PWM: 50.0 +/- 5c

    Temperature at load (Prime95 maximum torture setting):

    Sys: 37c | CPU: 75.5 +/- 5c | PWM: 75.0 +/- 5c

    The system is rock solid at these settings and Prime95 ran error free for
    two hours. No crashes. No I/O problems with Sondra2005 disk drive test.

    Are these settings and temperatures safe? Am I walking on thin ice, or
    living on borrowed time? Any suggestion, comments, observations? Any
    suggestions on a better heatsink fan combo that will fit on this MB
    inside by Antec SLK1600 case (300watt stock power supply was upgraded to
    450watts, hey what can I say, the case was free).

    Thanks, -Barry
     
    baj2k, Feb 9, 2005
    #1
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  2. That's a good overclock!
    As a general point, you'd be better off locking the PCI and AGP buses at
    33/66. Running an overclocked PCI bus doesn't gain you any significant
    performance nowadays, and can cost you in component (primarily hard disk)
    reliability.
    You're actually losing quite a bit of overall system performance by running
    the async memory bus. As you say, PC4000 (or maybe better PC4400) is the
    perfect answer, but you may find that, if your current memory will run a
    little faster than it is ATM, it's possible that the best performance
    compromise may come from running 1:1 at a lower FSB. Doing it that way would
    also reduce the CPU's power demand, which would make the power supply
    circuitry happy if nothing else! :)
    That PWM reading is very, very hot. Unsurprising given the amount of current
    the CPU will be pulling under load. It's also possible that the CPU is
    throttling, cutting back the performance. You can check this by downloading
    ThrottleWatch and leaving it run during periods of extended intensive
    utilisation.
    I'd be uncomfortable running this system with the PWM temps as high as they
    are, while I'd also want to check for CPU thermal throttling before deciding
    whether the existing thermal solution on that was sufficient.

    At minimum I'd be thinking about heatsinking the power MOSFETS and directing
    a source of cold air directly onto that area of the board.
    Questions like that are always almost impossible to answer with certainty or
    evidential backing, unless you're a motherboard manufacturer with access to
    proper test data. Which, of course, none of us are.
    There are a few heatsink/fan assemblies that'll do a better job than the
    stock product supplied with the CPU. Difficult to suggest one in particular.
    --


    Richard Hopkins
    Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
    (replace nospam with pipex in reply address)

    The UK's leading technology reseller www.dabs.com
     
    Richard Hopkins, Feb 9, 2005
    #2
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  3. baj2k

    baj2k Guest

    $:

    First of all thanks for the thorough and very informative reply. I've
    done some case baffling to dirrect the air in a more efficient manner and
    have droped average case, CPU and PWM temps under Prime95 maximum torture
    settings by ~3c. While significant I'm assunig that's not enough. I do
    have a question and I'm not asking for an implied warrenty, and if I blow
    this thing up it's nobodies fault but my own, but what is the maximum CPU
    and PWM temp's you'd be comfortable running. This thing ran in the high
    60's C on Prime95 at stock 200MHz / 3.0GHz CPU speed. I'd say it gained ~
    8-10C at 267MHz.
    Here's the ThrottleWatch data @ 4.005GHz The first throttled data point
    was at CPU temp of 68c. No throlling seemed to occur until that temp. Max
    temp was 72.5C +/-5C on CPU and 71.5C +/-5C on PWM; temp fluctuates up
    and down quite a bit on the ABIT EQ monitoring app, but never exceeded ~
    77C.

    ThrottleWatch Journal file
    --------------------------

    Time Load Throt. Clock
    460 51 11 4034
    1459 45 11 4047
    2462 37 0 4009
    3455 51 0 4009
    4459 52 0 4020
    5459 51 55 4036
    6461 55 22 4009
    7462 52 11 4032
    8456 55 22 4010
    9460 51 22 4036
    10458 55 22 4022
    11458 51 20 4036
    12455 51 22 4040
    13460 50 33 4033
    14468 52 11 4010
    15455 52 33 4043
    16454 51 22 4038
    17555 50 44 4009
    18457 55 10 4009
    19459 50 33 4040
    20459 55 55 4009
    21457 51 44 4040
    22457 56 11 4013
    23459 52 44 4029
    24458 52 22 4036
    25459 51 20 4045
    26460 51 33 4041
    27458 55 55 4009
    28456 51 22 4031
    29455 55 22 4009
    30457 51 33 4038
    31454 55 33 4009
    32454 52 20 4037
    33461 55 44 4022
    34459 51 44 4029
    35462 50 44 4028
    36455 51 44 4060
    37454 52 22 4047
    38455 51 33 4045
    39458 52 20 4032
    40461 55 33 4009
    41455 51 44 4014
    42458 55 11 4009
    43456 51 66 4015
    44465 56 22 4019
    45460 50 44 4037
    46459 51 40 4028
    47557 51 22 4009
    48463 55 22 4009
    49459 51 22 4028
    50457 51 22 4042
    51460 50 33 4031
    52458 55 22 4006
    53460 51 30 4027
    54463 55 55 4009
    55462 51 33 4034
    56459 55 55 4023
    57458 51 33 4048
    58458 55 77 4012
    59458 52 66 4040
    60457 51 30 4035
    61458 51 22 4041
    62461 51 22 4039
    63455 55 44 4002
    64460 52 0 4019
    65459 55 33 4009
    66459 51 33 4040
    67461 55 70 4008
    68462 51 33 4048
    69459 56 33 4015
    70460 51 55 4049
    71454 51 100 4045
    72459 52 44 4027
    73458 51 55 4044
    74460 55 0 4009
    75464 51 11 4936
    76513 54 22 4009
    77566 52 44 4020
    78454 55 44 4020
    79459 55 22 4011
    80460 52 33 4047
    81461 55 0 4018
    82458 52 55 4040
    83462 51 55 4044
    84463 51 55 4037
    85458 52 33 4039
    86463 55 77 4009
    87456 52 22 4044
    88464 55 70 4001
    89464 52 33 4050
    90462 55 77 4009
    91464 51 44 4027
    92455 58 33 4022
    93456 51 55 4036
    94454 55 11 4027
    95459 50 70 4029
    96459 51 55 4038
    97460 55 66 4009
    98459 53 22 4029
    99457 55 44 4009
    100458 50 22 4025
    101457 55 55 4009
    102460 53 30 4034
    103458 55 33 4015
    104467 52 11 4035
    105461 52 44 4031
    106460 51 44 4030
    107557 52 44 4020
    108455 55 33 4020
    109455 57 50 4009
    110459 52 22 4031
    111459 55 66 4009
    112459 51 33 4033
    113460 56 55 4017
    114460 52 22 4034
    115459 55 44 4019
    116455 52 30 4032
    117457 51 33 4032
    118456 51 33 4018
    119459 52 33 4037
    120455 55 33 4009
    121454 55 11 4042
    122459 58 33 4009
    123456 51 30 4041

    Average load 52%
    Average throttling 34%

    Prime95 Benchmark Results:

    Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
    CPU speed: 4009.14 MHz
    CPU features: RDTSC, CMOV, PREFETCH, MMX, SSE, SSE2
    L1 cache size: unknown
    L2 cache size: 1024 KB
    L1 cache line size: unknown
    L2 cache line size: 128 bytes
    TLBS: 64
    Prime95 version 23.8, RdtscTiming=1
    Best time for 384K FFT length: 10.206 ms.
    Best time for 448K FFT length: 12.443 ms.
    Best time for 512K FFT length: 13.979 ms.
    Best time for 640K FFT length: 16.765 ms.
    Best time for 768K FFT length: 20.182 ms.
    Best time for 896K FFT length: 24.361 ms.
    Best time for 1024K FFT length: 27.124 ms.
    Best time for 1280K FFT length: 36.160 ms.
    Best time for 1536K FFT length: 43.214 ms.
    Best time for 1792K FFT length: 52.054 ms.
    Best time for 2048K FFT length: 58.215 ms.

    Thanks, -Barry
     
    baj2k, Feb 9, 2005
    #3
  4. No worries. :)
    Not really. Other folks here may have different opinions of course but if
    that were my system I'd like to see the PWM temp significantly lower, and
    the CPU cooling improved enough to eliminate the throttling.
    As I say, opinions may vary but I wouldn't be truly comfortable with the
    whole thing until the PWM temp was down below 55C or so under load. The CPU
    temperature is a slightly different case. Prescotts run hot, and there's
    very little you can do about that. However, you need to cool it sufficiently
    well enough that it doesn't throttle. If it does, there's very little point
    running it at the sort of speeds you are, as, if all it does is throttle
    whenever you use it, you're not actually getting the performance you should
    be, if you see what I mean.
    Yeah, this is the problem with these bloody things unfortunately. Fricking
    silly power consumption and heat dissipation before you even start
    overclocking.
    Indeed. What you then need to aim for is a situation where you can keep the
    CPU under this temperature, even under sustained and full utilisation.
    The throttling prevents the CPU from lunching itself by inserting increasing
    amounts of halt cycles once the temperature starts to reach danger level.
    This is a handy safety mechanism, but it also means that any gains you make
    from overclocking are going to be offset - and possibly even lost
    completely - if the throttling is severe.
    That's a significant statistic. I haven't done any in-depth testing with
    ThrottleWatch, primarily because my setup doesn't run hot enough to
    throttle, and thus don't know whether its readings pan out in reality.

    If they do, in effect it means that your 4.005GHz CPU turns into something
    like a 2.65GHz CPU whenever you try and do anything significant with it. If
    the ThrottleWatch results are correct, it also, significantly, means that
    you're getting less performance at 4GHz than you would at the CPU's default
    speeds - provided of course that CPU then ran cool enough to keep it under
    the throttle threshold.
    As a matter of interest, have you tried running Prime at default CPU speed?
    It'd be interesting to see how the results compare, and whether the
    throttling is indeed impacting performance to the extent ThrottleWatch is
    suggesting.
    --


    Richard Hopkins
    Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
    (replace nospam with pipex in reply address)

    The UK's leading technology reseller www.dabs.com
     
    Richard Hopkins, Feb 9, 2005
    #4
  5. baj2k

    baj2k Guest


    Here's the results, surprisingly no apparent difference when throttling
    up to 33%.

    Prime95 Benchmark results as requested:

    200/66/33

    Cold - No throttling - Before Prime95 Torture Test
    --------------------------------------------------
    Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
    CPU speed: 3006.85 MHz
    CPU features: RDTSC, CMOV, PREFETCH, MMX, SSE, SSE2
    L1 cache size: unknown
    L2 cache size: 1024 KB
    L1 cache line size: unknown
    L2 cache line size: 128 bytes
    TLBS: 64
    Prime95 version 23.8, RdtscTiming=1
    Best time for 384K FFT length: 13.515 ms.
    Best time for 448K FFT length: 16.461 ms.
    Best time for 512K FFT length: 18.552 ms.
    Best time for 640K FFT length: 22.104 ms.
    Best time for 768K FFT length: 26.584 ms.
    Best time for 896K FFT length: 32.062 ms.
    Best time for 1024K FFT length: 35.689 ms.
    Best time for 1280K FFT length: 47.582 ms.
    Best time for 1536K FFT length: 56.890 ms.
    Best time for 1792K FFT length: 68.379 ms.
    Best time for 2048K FFT length: 76.474 ms.


    Hot - No throttling - After 10 min Prime95 Torture Test
    -------------------------------------------------------

    Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
    CPU speed: 3006.90 MHz
    CPU features: RDTSC, CMOV, PREFETCH, MMX, SSE, SSE2
    L1 cache size: unknown
    L2 cache size: 1024 KB
    L1 cache line size: unknown
    L2 cache line size: 128 bytes
    TLBS: 64
    Prime95 version 23.8, RdtscTiming=1
    Best time for 384K FFT length: 13.522 ms.
    Best time for 448K FFT length: 16.417 ms.
    Best time for 512K FFT length: 18.537 ms.
    Best time for 640K FFT length: 22.084 ms.
    Best time for 768K FFT length: 26.578 ms.
    Best time for 896K FFT length: 32.110 ms.
    Best time for 1024K FFT length: 35.709 ms.
    Best time for 1280K FFT length: 47.621 ms.
    Best time for 1536K FFT length: 56.845 ms.
    Best time for 1792K FFT length: 68.380 ms.
    Best time for 2048K FFT length: 76.365 ms.


    267/66/33

    Cold - No throttling - Before Prime95 Torture Test
    --------------------------------------------------

    Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
    CPU speed: 4009.11 MHz
    CPU features: RDTSC, CMOV, PREFETCH, MMX, SSE, SSE2
    L1 cache size: unknown
    L2 cache size: 1024 KB
    L1 cache line size: unknown
    L2 cache line size: 128 bytes
    TLBS: 64
    Prime95 version 23.8, RdtscTiming=1
    Best time for 384K FFT length: 10.143 ms.
    Best time for 448K FFT length: 12.348 ms.
    Best time for 512K FFT length: 13.931 ms.
    Best time for 640K FFT length: 16.638 ms.
    Best time for 768K FFT length: 19.955 ms.
    Best time for 896K FFT length: 24.166 ms.
    Best time for 1024K FFT length: 26.890 ms.
    Best time for 1280K FFT length: 35.734 ms.
    Best time for 1536K FFT length: 42.728 ms.
    Best time for 1792K FFT length: 51.370 ms.
    Best time for 2048K FFT length: 57.345 ms.


    Hot - Constant, up to 33% throttling - After 10 min. Prime95 Torture Test
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
    CPU speed: 4009.11 MHz
    CPU features: RDTSC, CMOV, PREFETCH, MMX, SSE, SSE2
    L1 cache size: unknown
    L2 cache size: 1024 KB
    L1 cache line size: unknown
    L2 cache line size: 128 bytes
    TLBS: 64
    Prime95 version 23.8, RdtscTiming=1
    Best time for 384K FFT length: 10.136 ms.
    Best time for 448K FFT length: 12.358 ms.
    Best time for 512K FFT length: 13.925 ms.
    Best time for 640K FFT length: 16.712 ms.
    Best time for 768K FFT length: 19.985 ms.
    Best time for 896K FFT length: 24.193 ms.
    Best time for 1024K FFT length: 27.678 ms.
    Best time for 1280K FFT length: 35.815 ms.
    Best time for 1536K FFT length: 42.793 ms.
    Best time for 1792K FFT length: 51.682 ms.
    Best time for 2048K FFT length: 57.333 ms.

    Your thoughts, perhaps Prime95 benchmarking is not a good test for this,
    maybe you could suggest another.

    Cheers, -Barry
     
    baj2k, Feb 10, 2005
    #5
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