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Ok. New laptop. TPM. XP. Want dual boot. What do I do first?

Discussion in 'Laptops' started by Ronnie, Sep 13, 2006.

  1. Ronnie

    Ronnie Guest

    New laptop. Single 60GB HD, TPM present but, according to the manual,
    disabled in the BIOS (requires to be enabled for its secutiry
    features). XP waiting to install automatically on first switch-on.
    CD/DVD, LAN connection, but no floppy drive. USB ports, but may not
    be bootable.

    Want to have:

    Multi boot: XP, Linux/Knoppix, FreeDOS, etc
    Partition with data files such as word proc, spreadsheets, etc
    Linux partition with Knoppix/debian, say
    Linux swap partition

    Have: Knoppix bootable CD.


    How would you set up these new partitions, use a multi-boot loader,
    and still have XP install without hiccup, together with Linux/Knoppix?

    That the XP pre-install might not install if the NTFS(?) drive is
    'not' 60GB.

    Although GRUB worked happily under W98SE (using a sort of DOS mode),
    unsure it would work under XP.

    Manual suggests that TPM is used for SSL, WPA etc - does this mean I
    'must' enable TPM if I want to use SSL, or WPA, under XP?

    And if I 'must' to enable TPM, how would we create the environment I

    best wishes,
    Ronnie, Sep 13, 2006
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  2. Ronnie

    efbo Guest

    You can do a number of things:
    Buy a 120 GB HD and do a clean format of this one leaving the 60 GB
    disk as is.
    Install XP like intended, install MS Virtual server 2005 (free) and
    install linux en/or freedos within the virtual server. this has the
    advantage that you can simultaniously can use xp and linux and other os
    at the same time. memory is your only bottleneck. If you install the MS
    loopback interface you can access the linux server with putty or run
    apache and use your browser without having a network present. It's cool
    developing like this!


    Ronnie schreef:
    efbo, Sep 13, 2006
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  3. Ronnie

    Ronnie Guest

    Efbo, thank you for the suggestion. It's good. I could set up FAT
    and FAT32 and Ext2 partitions as I wished. How would I transfer the
    raw-XP files from the inbuilt 60GB drive onto a FAT32 partition on the
    120GB drive? And would XP install from there or would the install
    fail some compatibility check?

    best wishes,
    Ronnie, Sep 14, 2006
  4. Ronnie

    Ronnie Guest

    Apologies to the group - I think my question may be off-topic here.
    Although laptop related, the query really arises in respect of XP
    first initialisation, and I perhaps ought to post in an XP group

    (Not sure which of the many, many MS XP sub-groups would be fruitful,
    though, but I was thinking about alt.comp.os.windows-xp, but I'm open
    to suggestions.)

    I'll keep an eye on this thread, if anyone has experience of dealing
    with new, TPM, XP, multi-boot arrangements. Efbo's post is helpful.

    best wishes,
    Ronnie, Sep 14, 2006
  5. I don't know what TPM is, but I do a reasonable number of multi-boot
    installs on laptops for myself, one about every 3-6mos.

    1) Install XP first. Always. It makes XP happy that way.

    2) XP probably wants to be installed on an NTFS partition. If so,
    don't try to move it to a FAT32 partition. XP uses attributes of
    NTFS that aren't present on FAT32 when installed on NTFS.
    Attempting to move XP from NTFS to FAT32 will prompt you with all
    kinds of ugly warnings about attributes getting lost--I wouldn't
    trust a system after that happened to it. If you want XP installed
    on FAT32, then install it initially on FAT32. That maybe a slightly
    harder proposition depending on how your particular XP installer
    works. Some have the option of creating and installing on a FAT32
    partition. Others, may not, especially if it is one of those
    "system recovery" type installations designed to get your machine
    back to some factory pre-configured state.

    3) Once you have XP installed, you should then shrink the partition to
    make space for your other OSes. I like Partition Magic for that, but
    I believe it can also be done from either QTParted or GParted. You
    can run those from Linux liveCDs. (Note, if the resize fails, you
    may be left with a totally hosed OS, so be prepared to start over.)
    You can create any other partitions you want at this point,
    e.g. an extended partition with fat32 partitions for data sharing.

    4) If you want an old Win style OS on your system install that next
    and install it at the bottom of the drive. I keep a copy of Win98
    that's been hacked to do command mode only with a text copy of
    Partition Magic and system Commander (a multi-boot program I like),
    as the "first" partition of the drive, for absolute panic recovery.
    It fits in 100MB on a fat16 partition.

    5) Now, that you have all the Microsoft OSes installed, you can
    install Linux. I like to put Linux in the extended partition
    (because I actually keep two copies of XP in primary partitions one
    for home use and one for work, so that any software the is licensed
    to my employer doesn't get mingled with stuff I bought). XP seems
    to fit pretty nicely in about 15GB. (So I end up with, with
    essentially 2 15GB XP installations, a 15GB Linux installation, and
    15GB of shared FAT32 partition, on a 60GB drive.)

    When you install Linux it should offer you the option of placing
    grub not in the MBR, but in the "boot area" of a partition. I like
    to make a /boot partition as the first partition of the extended
    partition, and put grub there. I do that because I boot to grub
    from System Commander. However, since you probably want grub as
    your primary boot loader, you should be able to install it in the
    mbr. Check with the grub web sites for details of doing that,
    since you may need to save the NTLDR boot sectors that are in the
    MBR at the time you install grub.

    This is roughly what I do everytime I replace one of my laptops. It
    works for me, your mileage may vary. Note that the wise person takes
    backups between the different stages of this process, because the
    steps aren't 2-3 minutes, and it's nice not to have to backtrack too
    far if you klutz something.
    Chris F Clark, Sep 14, 2006
  6. Ronnie

    Ronnie Guest

    Thorough post - I'm much obliged. That must have taken a time just to
    type out, let alone work out. (Ever thought of just putting it up on
    the web as one user's approach?)
    Actually it's TPM that worries me. This is from the brochure:
    "Trusted Platform Module (TPM) authenticates system platform to ensure
    the highest level of data protection - a vault - like combination of
    an integrated security chip with sophisticated data encryption

    In the BIOS manual the manufacturer states that the TPM is used for
    SSL - like when you use a browser to access a confidential online

    But I know 'nothing' about it, or even about XP, come to that. Other
    postings on the web suggest that TPM is a special chip on which
    detailed disk and boot configurations are stored, and which will
    refuse to start if it finds any have changed. Hence my concern about
    installing XP first, and then changing partitions etc.

    But presumably, recent laptops on which you've set up your recommended
    system also have, now, a TPM. Though I would have expected you'd
    notice, considering the very low level work you're doing, so maybe
    they haven't. Yet.

    best wishes,
    Ronnie, Sep 14, 2006
  7. Ronnie

    Geoham Guest


    The TPM isn't required for using SSL, WPA. You can happily leave it disabled
    for most purposes. Even if it's enabled, there's no need to store SSL or WPA
    on it. The main purpose is to securely store data off the hard drive, and
    prompt you for a password when any attempt to access the data is made. Where
    it does come in useful, is when using biometrics, smart cards etc. Also
    Vista requires a TPM for the hard drive Bitlocker function. Below there's a
    link to a FAQ from Wave, whom make Embassy Trust Suite, who's software is
    found on many systems with TPMs.


    Geoham, Sep 16, 2006
  8. Ronnie

    Ronnie Guest

    Oh, well done! V useful link. Explains quite well what is going on.

    The Windows Vista Bitlocker might be the software that detects changes
    to boot and partition configurations, so unless running Vista, then
    multi-boot systems perhaps are not problematic under XP even on a
    TPM-equipped machine.

    Although I don't have any links to hand, while searching for info I
    did see various postings that expressed concern about multi-boot and
    TPM, but I now think they were all in the context of 'Bitlocker'. At
    the time I hadn't understood the separate functions of XP, Vista, TPM,
    and Bitlocker.

    best wishes,
    Ronnie, Sep 16, 2006
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