OT: Mac Leopard OS, Impressive

Discussion in 'Dell' started by Journey, Oct 20, 2007.

  1. Journey

    Tony Harding Guest

    Maybe the public doesn't want to buy the same content yet another time?
    Think LPs/cassette tapes to CDs, VHS to DVD, etc. I have no idea how
    many CDs I first owned in LP form, but it's a lot. Less so for VHS &
    DVDs, but I was always more of an audio freak than video.
     
    Tony Harding, Oct 22, 2007
    #21
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  2. Journey

    Tony Harding Guest

    Probably not, their real money comes from selling licenses en masse to
    companies like Dell & HPaq, plus big corporate customers with 1,000's or
    10,000's of workstations. I wonder how many workstations, i.e., clients,
    a company like Citigroup has running some form of Windows?
     
    Tony Harding, Oct 22, 2007
    #22
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  3. Journey

    Tony Harding Guest

    I'd say there's a world of difference between IT professionals/mavens
    (e.g., gamers), like many of us here, vs. the great majority of computer
    users who just want their computers to be like a toaster or TV, i.e.,
    turn it on and it works. They don't give a crap what's going on under
    the covers. Nor should they, IMHO, stop 10 people at random on the
    street and ask them to explain the difference between 32-bit & 64-bit
    systems, or the advantages of object oriented systems. :-D
     
    Tony Harding, Oct 22, 2007
    #23
  4. ah, corporate site licenses with 'upgrade protection'... now that's a huge
    number of workstations that can be counted as vista ' installs' that can be
    used to skew statistics to make sales look stronger than they actually
    are...
     
    Christopher Muto, Oct 22, 2007
    #24
  5. Journey

    Tom Lake Guest

    I'm a professional (have been for 30 years or so) and I'm still trying
    to figure out the advantage of object oriented systems!

    Tom Lake
     
    Tom Lake, Oct 22, 2007
    #25
  6. That makes me wonder if we've come to the end of the line for
    Goodness, I don't think that at all *except* I don't think Microsoft or
    Apple for that matter can make radical changes to the OS basic structure
    without starting again and not maintaining their customer base which means
    they won't/can't do it.

    There is a lot of interest and discussion about application streaming,
    virtual machines, server based computing, web applications, Ajax etc. etc.
    which IMHO are (necessary) fudges to get around a basic flaw in operating
    system design in that they are designed to run primarily standalone on a
    single device.

    When Java first came out I thought "hey, that's a great idea - just walk
    upto any PC and your applications will be available". The Java dream didn't
    quite pan out - I think it was a little too early and maybe still is. It
    needed broadband network speeds and maybe we still need higher mobile
    speeds.

    Whilst not trying to detract from the great applications out there, I simply
    shrug when I here about the latest wonderful Ajax powered email client. Come
    on people, email clients have had that level of functionality for years.
    What we've not had is accessibility from any PC and that needed a) powerful
    computers (to be able to run JavaScript *arrrgg* at a reasonable speed) and
    b) broadband connections to get the data fast enough remotely.

    You should be able to walk up to any PC, log on and your own desktop and
    applications start to appear. Just enough downloads to get you started with
    everything else streaming/caching/syncing as requested inc. data. I'm not
    talking just some JavaScript running inside a browser. I'm talking full
    client-side operating functionality, just streamed from somewhere else but
    run locally.

    Application streaming is a similar idea except they have to stream a lot
    down first as Windows (and I'm guessing OS X) tends to execute a lot of code
    all over the place - the core kernels aren't broken down into smaller
    chunks. The net effect maybe the same but as an ex-games 8 bit programmer,
    the inefficiency of it all offends :) Maybe that doesn't matter anymore...
    that's what more powerful CPUs and faster connections are allowing us to
    do - implement things inefficiently but at the end of the day, it doesn't
    matter.

    Cheers, Rob.
     
    Rob Nicholson, Oct 22, 2007
    #26
  7. I'm not much of a fan of Windows 'System Restore' feature. I'd say
    Agreed - much prefer tools like Acronis True Image. That said, I believe
    that system restore is improved in Vista. Will take me a long time though to
    trust it :)

    Cheers, Rob
     
    Rob Nicholson, Oct 22, 2007
    #27
  8. I'm a professional (have been for 30 years or so) and I'm still trying
    You being serious??? ;-)

    Cheers, Rob.
     
    Rob Nicholson, Oct 22, 2007
    #28
  9. Likewise, Vista is Microsoft's attempt on bringing Windows up to the
    There's a survey somewhere that shows that the basic speed you can do things
    in Vista is bottom of the pile compared to XP and OS X.

    Cheers, Rob.
     
    Rob Nicholson, Oct 22, 2007
    #29
  10. Journey

    RnR Guest


    I guess this is one of those things MS doesn't want you to know :) .

    My thinking is that MS wasn't concerned about the speed when they
    wrote Vista because they felt future generations of hardware would
    overcome the speed differences but we're not there yet so the
    differences become apparent. Also likely they probably felt most
    users wouldn't notice the difference because they'd be so impressed
    with the new OS but most of us in this newsgroup aren't like the
    masses so we do notice these things.

    I haven't yet switched to Vista but the more I read this newsgroup the
    less I'm in any rush to do so. I know some say it's okay but those
    same people can't seem to rave about Vista and many more here don't
    have anything good to say about it. I bet MS is glad not that many
    read this ng as it would be bad for business. Of course it's only a
    matter of time where we'll have to switch (in regard to support) but
    my guess that won't be for at least another 3 to 5 years.
     
    RnR, Oct 22, 2007
    #30
  11. Journey

    Tony Harding Guest

    "upgrade protection"? Not familiar with the term.
    Oh, yeah, as they say, "figures don't lie, but liars figure". :)
     
    Tony Harding, Oct 22, 2007
    #31
  12. Journey

    Journey Guest

    "Object oriented systems" can mean many different things.
     
    Journey, Oct 22, 2007
    #32
  13. to use microspeak... the microsoft "software assurance" program includes
    "new version rights" which means "every license covered under software
    assurance may be upgraded to the latest version." here's a link to a pdf
    file on microsoft's site that states this...
    https://partner.microsoft.com/download/global/40029941
     
    Christopher Muto, Oct 22, 2007
    #33
  14. have you seen google apps?
    http://www.google.com/a/
    take the 12 minute tour found here...
    http://www.google.com/a/help/intl/en/admins/tour.html
     
    Christopher Muto, Oct 22, 2007
    #34
  15. have you seen google apps?
    Yes I have and that's exactly my point. It takes a company with the finances
    of Google to spend many man years re-inventing (I assume in lots of
    JavaScript) what Word Perfect and Word did ten years ago and we're supposed
    to go "ohh, ahh, isn't that clever".

    The web has undoubtedly allows the world of computers to take huge steps
    forward but in some areas, it's still in the dark ages.

    Cheers, Rob.
     
    Rob Nicholson, Oct 22, 2007
    #35
  16. My thinking is that MS wasn't concerned about the speed when they
    One suspects they didn't expect the big backlash against having to upgrade.
    Me (us) neither and we're not, like most companies, rushing out to upgrade.

    Cheers, Rob.
     
    Rob Nicholson, Oct 22, 2007
    #36
  17. Journey

    wm_walsh Guest

    Hi!
    I think the official M$ term for it is "software assurance"...a sort
    of contract that volume licensees can get into to receive the latest
    version of a piece of software when it comes out. I don't know much
    more than that, as I've never worked with anyone who had it.

    Sometimes an informal version of the software assurance plan is
    offered to regular customers who purchase software just before a new
    release comes out...at least this is true of the Office products. This
    has you fill out a form and send a little money to cover shipping and
    handling costs for the new product.

    William
     
    wm_walsh, Oct 22, 2007
    #37
  18. Journey

    wm_walsh Guest

    Hi!
    Yes it most certainly is. System Restore is only intended to recover
    or allow you to "roll back" botched software installations and maybe
    superficial damage done to programs, such as deleted shortcuts and the
    like. It's *not* a data backup tool and even Microsoft says so,
    although I don't remember where I read that. And while it does work,
    it doesn't always do quite what I would have expected.

    Apple's Time Machine, on the other hand, *is* billed as a complete
    backup solution. They don't show backing out botched software installs
    or damaged applications, although I suppose that might be possible.
    They show recovery of documents and even objects from within
    applications that support Time Machine.
    If anyone really uses it. I haven't met a lot of people who ever
    touched the stationery on a PC with Outlook/Outlook Express. In a way,
    I see that as a blessing. I much prefer to read e-mails in plain text
    with a fixed font at a fixed size.

    William
     
    wm_walsh, Oct 22, 2007
    #38
  19. Journey

    wm_walsh Guest

    Hi!
    It sure does. You can do it with the keyboard if you have only a one
    button mouse.

    However, Mac OS X is quite capable of using just about any two (or
    more!) button mouse you can find and connect. Apple's portable
    products have an option that can be enabled to allow you to use two
    fingers on the touchpad for a right click. Apple's current mouse
    offerings also allow you to right click if you turn on the option to
    do so, although I'm not sure that I really like the implementation.

    A very few Mac OS 9 programs supported a right click if you had a two
    button mouse at the time.

    William
     
    wm_walsh, Oct 22, 2007
    #39
  20. Journey

    wm_walsh Guest

    Hi!
    I haven't seen it, but I'd envision it to go something like this:

    XP and Mac OS X -- click on one something, perform desired task. Exit
    program. Start another something, perform another task, quit. Oh look,
    a software update. Provide password on Mac OS X, get update on
    Windows, reboot if needed. Do some more work with other somethings on
    the computer. Shut down when done.

    Vista: Click on one something. A program needs your permission to
    continue. Start to perform desired task. A program needs your
    permission to continue. Okay, fine. Continue task. Close program.
    Start another program. A program needs your permission to continue. Oh
    look, a software update that needs your permission to continue. The
    computer needs to restart, and your permission is required to let it
    do so. Wait for computer to restart. Start another program. Yes, you
    need to give Windows permission to continue. Oh, and more permission.
    Rather amazingly, you don't need to grant permission for the system to
    shut down, other than to tell it what you want to do.

    As you can guess, User Account Control was the first part of Vista
    that died on the few systems I have running it. I don't mind
    confirming that I wish to do something (Mac OS X) but must I really do
    so at every turn and corner?!

    This was written with some humor value in mind, so please take it
    accordingly. It may be a bit exaggerated in spots, but you get the
    idea... :)

    William
     
    wm_walsh, Oct 22, 2007
    #40
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