OT: Mac Leopard OS, Impressive

Discussion in 'Dell' started by Journey, Oct 20, 2007.

  1. Journey

    Jim Higgins Guest


    To be honest I don't know for sure how these licenses are paid for,
    but in the case of computer retailers like Dell/HPaq I bet they don't
    pay before they sell a machine with Windows on it.

    And as for the corporate world, they're avoiding Vista. I'm sure
    Citigroup (et al) are running a bazzillion computers with Windows on
    them, but only a very few of them are running Vista. MS is still
    making most of the money it makes off Corporate America from PC OS
    sales by selling licenses to WinXP. Note that the major computer
    sellers still offer WinXP machines to business buyers. Actually
    "still" isn't quite the right word since they tried to stop. Make
    that, they "once again" offer WinXP to corporate buyers.
     
    Jim Higgins, Oct 22, 2007
    #41
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  2. Journey

    wm_walsh Guest

    Hi!
    I can't say that I hate Vista (on a good day) but I don't like it.
    Some things that I could do on a prior version of Windows (like
    customize the IE and Explorer tool bars!) aren't possible any more,
    thank you very much.
    I think 2010 is the date for XP, and 2009 for Windows 2000. Both could
    be pushed back further, and at least one is likely to be.

    Being out of support hasn't bothered me that much. I've got systems
    running Win95, 98 and NT that Microsoft has long forgotten. It doesn't
    affect the things I do with these computers, as they still run the
    applications I want to run and do a good job of it.

    William
     
    wm_walsh, Oct 22, 2007
    #42
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  3. Journey

    Jim Higgins Guest

    On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:19:07 +0100, "Rob Nicholson"

    [ big snip ]
    But it does. It's exactly this mindset that's causing OS bloat to
    outstrip CPU speed increases and true OS improvement to lag behind
    multicore CPU capabilities.
     
    Jim Higgins, Oct 22, 2007
    #43
  4. Journey

    Jim Higgins Guest


    Yes, but when is the latest OS going to catch up to the latest
    hardware instead of constantly outpacing it in terms of bloat and
    lagging behind it in terms of taking full advantage of the hardware to
    improve OS efficiency. And then don't forget that the applications
    must also take full advantage of the hardware. Just what part of
    history suggests this is ever going to happen unless hardware
    innovation stumbles, falls and breaks a leg?


    Apples and oranges. The masses are working with Vista Home and the
    folks here are working with Vista Aero... broadly speaking.


    You have to ask each one of those offering an opinion which Vista
    version they're running, which updates they've applied and on what
    hardware with what memory, what applications (version, etc.)... etc.,
    etc., etc.

    I suggest that as many as possible hold off as long as possible so as
    to send MS a message.
     
    Jim Higgins, Oct 22, 2007
    #44
  5. Journey

    RnR Guest

    Agreed. I was just theorizing MS thinking for Vista but I guess you
    can apply this thinking again and again for each OS.
    I'm not so sure about that. Even those that are running 2gigs ram
    aren't saying anything great about Vista with or without Aero.

    Probably not. I have yet to read anyone say it is as fast or faster
    vs. XP, regardless what they were running it on (well maybe one
    person as an after thought). What you are referring to is how to make
    it run faster than default.
     
    RnR, Oct 22, 2007
    #45
  6. Journey

    Tony Harding Guest

    Microsoft is in the same position as IBM was 20+ years ago, the biggest
    impact of any change they make is on their installed base, so they're
    loathe to "innovate".

    I can't imagine the MS pitch to a corporate CIO to convince them to
    upgrade to Vista because Aero is so cool. <snort>

    Maybe MS will get around to finishing development on the decommissioned
    Vista features, e.g., their new file system? The Vista that was released
    is a lot different from the Vista MS said they were working on.
     
    Tony Harding, Oct 23, 2007
    #46
  7. Apple's Time Machine, on the other hand, *is* billed as a complete
    I'd be intrigued to know how they separate documents & user data from
    application files. When I use Acronis True Image for a similar purpose, I
    have to make sure that all user data is kept on a separate partition and if
    I do roll back, it's just the C: drive that's effected.

    Cheers, Rob.
     
    Rob Nicholson, Oct 23, 2007
    #47
  8. Journey

    Journey Guest

    Equally impressive is Apple's stock price, and it's going into the
    holiday season on all cylinders. Up about 12 points overnight and no
    end in sight.
     
    Journey, Oct 23, 2007
    #48
  9. Journey

    Tony Harding Guest

    Thanks
     
    Tony Harding, Oct 24, 2007
    #49
  10. Journey

    Tony Harding Guest

    Thanks, William
     
    Tony Harding, Oct 24, 2007
    #50
  11. Journey

    Tony Harding Guest

    Just for openers I'll bet they don't lump user documents in with temp
    files a la Documents & Settings. I wonder whose brain fart that was!
     
    Tony Harding, Oct 24, 2007
    #51
  12. Just for openers I'll bet they don't lump user documents in with temp
    Temp files is fine but Office et all putting it's temporary "opened from
    email" attachments in there is wrong... I've lost count of the number of
    times users have done the sequence in the wrong order and lost edits.

    Cheers, Rob.
     
    Rob Nicholson, Oct 24, 2007
    #52
  13. It leaves me wondering where the innovation is at Microsoft. Vista
    We've just finished looking through the video and I agree - it looks very
    nice. As a hardened Windows user, I'm am starting to wonder if Microsoft has
    lost it. I just plain hate Vista - don't get on with at all. But I'm sat
    here thinking "hmm, time to put in a purchase order for a Mac to have a look
    myself".

    As busy IT support people, the concept of Spaces was the most important
    thing we saw. I want that NOW on Windows XP... The time machine looks very
    useful for home users - not sure about commercial environment. The ability
    to remove you background in iChat and replace it with something else is
    really cool :)

    Cheers, Rob.
     
    Rob Nicholson, Oct 26, 2007
    #53
  14. Journey

    Journey Guest

    I've decided to pick up an iMac tonight -- the least expensive 20"
    one. It has the "superdrive" (aka DVD burner), and a 250G hard drive,
    a good keyboard and acceptable mouse. It's a fun all-in-one.

    I would have gone with a laptop but I don't like user reviews of
    persistent heat problems. Also, it doesn't make sense for me to have
    a Windows and Mac laptop -- when portable, any laptop will do.

    I am going to get the mac.com account that has 10GB of storage on the
    web, blog, share pictures, etc. Sure -- I could do that on my own, I
    am trained for it, but I don't want to.

    Leopard comes with boot camp so one can boot up to Windows. I am
    going to get Fusion so I can run Windows and the Mac OS's at the same
    time. I tried this out at an Apple store and the performance was very
    acceptable.

    I also love spaces -- these are the kinds of things Vista could have
    had and should have. The 3-D navigation of Vista is really the only
    user-interface improvement, and it's something that I don't use. With
    Vista, the taskbar buttons can't even be moved -- that's ridiculous --
    that is the kind of thing that obviously would be a useful
    improvement.

    I think the Mac is going to take serious market share away from
    Microsoft and will do so at the time the Chinese consumer market will
    be heating up. Apple is opening a store there next year (I know, big
    deal -- one store, but there are logistics setting up the first one
    and then many can follow).

    Apple also releases OS updates quicker than MS, so there will be one
    or two before MS's next OS comes out.

    It will be interesting to see what kinds of things I move to my Mac.
    Video and pictures will be one. I am really interested in seeing
    iWork's updated Word Processor and Spreadsheet programs. It's also
    going to be fun to use mac.com.

    Imagine that -- putting the fun back into computing!
     
    Journey, Oct 26, 2007
    #54
  15. Journey

    arthur wouk Guest

    :> It leaves me wondering where the innovation is at Microsoft. Vista
    :> doesn't offer much more than XP. Apple's new OS, on the other hand,
    :> continues to innovate.
    :
    :We've just finished looking through the video and I agree - it looks very
    :nice. As a hardened Windows user, I'm am starting to wonder if Microsoft has
    :lost it. I just plain hate Vista - don't get on with at all. But I'm sat
    :here thinking "hmm, time to put in a purchase order for a Mac to have a look
    :myself".

    worth the effort. i am writing from left field, i use solaris almost
    exclusively. i had had a windows machine several times, and i keep one
    around for emergencies (something i just can't see from solaris or mac osx).
    my daughter uses macs exclusively, so i also have access to mac osx.
    for some reason, i can manage to use the windows machine with extreme
    difficulty, but the mac feels natural when i try to do the same things.
    [right now i have two intel based machines, the dell t700r runs debian linux,
    while the fall back for emergencies is an hp pavilion 6330 running /98se]

    :
    :As busy IT support people, the concept of Spaces was the most important
    :thing we saw. I want that NOW on Windows XP... The time machine looks very
    :useful for home users - not sure about commercial environment. The ability
    :to remove you background in iChat and replace it with something else is
    :really cool :)
    :
    :Cheers, Rob.
    :
    :
     
    arthur wouk, Oct 26, 2007
    #55
  16. Journey

    Journey Guest


    Putting all comparison of Time Machine vs. System Restore aside in
    this post ...

    I am definitely a fan of System Restore. It has saved me on many
    occasions when my Windows PC flaked out.

    I don't hear much about DLL Hell these days, so I don't know if that
    still exists. I assume that it does to some extent.

    I don't understand System Restore on Vista Ultimate or why more system
    space is taken when using Ultimate. It won't be hard to understand --
    I just haven't gotten around to exploring the Ultimate features yet.
     
    Journey, Oct 27, 2007
    #56
  17. Journey

    Journey Guest

    So much for first impressions. I intentionally waited until the
    release of Leopard to get a Mac with it preinstalled. When I
    purchased it earlier today, that's the first question I asked and I
    was told that it would be preinstalled.

    So, I get it home and was very irritated when I see Max OSX 10.4 come
    up.

    I called the store and talked to the store manager and said that I had
    asked if Leopard was preinstalled when I purchased it from him earlier
    today. He said "It is, you have to use the drop-in DVD". So, he
    basically lied -- the drop-in DVD is the upgrade from Tiger to
    Leopard, so I have to go through the upgrade process.

    If this was a Windows PC I'd install from scratch but I'm not used to
    the Mac, and the store manager said to choose "Upgrade", so maybe now
    I am left with some 10.4-related files on this new iMac.

    When I was at the store, something occurred to me. The people working
    there looked like Mac geeks. Beard, gotees (sp), long sideburns, and
    I noticed a correlation of those things with the customers too (note:
    none of the women I saw has beards though, thankfully).

    Now that I've been politically incorrect I'll sign off and continue
    the process of UPGRADING MY NEW MAC.
     
    Journey, Oct 27, 2007
    #57
  18. Journey

    Journey Guest

    And, since I have 1 hour and 54 minutes left for my "new" Mac to
    upgrade, I had a few other obervations ...

    A MacBook Pro came in with about 4 keys that had gotten loose. There
    were a few other people getting their laptops repaired. Obviously
    it's not a statistical sampling ...

    When I talked to the employees at the Mac store, none of them seemed
    to want to acknowledge the large number of problems that Mac laptops
    have had with overheating.

    They are also completely ignorant of the fact that the first batches
    of iMacs had display problems, and the first batch of iPod classics
    had problems with songs skipping and several second delays when trying
    to do something.

    I guess in Mac-land everything is la la la always-OK (aka Denial).

    OK I'll quite now, and find some inanimate object to vent to ... (my
    cat doesn't want to hear it either).
     
    Journey, Oct 27, 2007
    #58
  19. Journey

    Tony Harding Guest

    Don't agree, I don't back up temp files and the like.
     
    Tony Harding, Oct 27, 2007
    #59
  20. Journey

    Tony Harding Guest

    LOL, I was in IT 35+ years but am retired now. I haven't had an OO
    experience, but people tell me it's better than sex. ;)
     
    Tony Harding, Oct 27, 2007
    #60
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