OT: What MS does right / wrong

Discussion in 'Dell' started by Journey, Jan 9, 2008.

  1. Journey

    Journey Guest

    After recently getting a Mac Book to complement my other PC's, it has
    been hard not to notice, by comparison, some of the things that MS is
    doing right and doing wrong.

    Some of the things MS is doing right:

    - One Note 2007 is a great app, one of my favorites.

    - Remote Desktop Connection works great to connect to other Windows
    PCs on my network.

    - Windows still trumps the Mac with regards to the variety of
    software that runs on it.

    - Windows is definitely better for gamers.

    Some of the things MS is doing wrong:

    - Missed a chance for a meaningful Windows upgrade in Vista.

    - Shockingly, MS is ruining the user-interface on its newer
    applications. Internet Explorer fully dispenses with usual menu
    conventions, and so does Office 2007.

    The good news is that MS is probably feeling the heat and will likely
    release a better next version of Windows. Hopefully they will go back
    to generally accepted user-interface standards, and hopefully the next
    version of Windows will have truly useful user-interface standards and
    Journey, Jan 9, 2008
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  2. Journey

    Colin Wilson Guest

    Mind if I paraphrase ? :p
    The reason this is right is that it is helping sales of more secure
    (and usable) machines, based either on Apple hardware, or generic PC
    hardware running linux.

    The world really needs M$ to go up shit creek without a paddle right
    now, taking all the patent legislators with them in the process.

    They're stifling innovation and security, and simply trading on a
    brand name.

    A bit like Norton...
    Colin Wilson, Jan 9, 2008
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  3. Journey

    Ben Myers Guest

    Good analogy. If Peter Norton was dead, he would turn over in his grave. I
    think he is still alive though, collecting royalty checks for prostituting the
    use of his once good name... Ben Myers
    Ben Myers, Jan 10, 2008
  4. Journey

    S.Lewis Guest

    Admitting up front that I know jack schitt........

    I see problems with both Vista and Office 2007 as HUGE chinks in the armor
    of MS. As pointed out, great opportunities for the company to do something
    meaningful with both have been squandered.

    In the past (read: WinME) they might've gotten away with that enduring
    minimal financial impact, but I'm not so sure now.

    Looking at Apple, Google, Sun (OpenOffice) and other major players out there
    who're providing more customer-oriented and cost-effective options on both
    the OS and office application side, this might be -truly- the beginning of
    the end of the near-monopoly.

    Any goodwill that MS had generated via WinXP has been pizzed away with the
    latest thoughtless attempts at nothing more than revenue generating

    Where's the benefit at this point? It resides purely in the pockets of the
    Redmond mafia imo.

    They're breaking schitt and they're very proud of it.
    S.Lewis, Jan 10, 2008
  5. Journey

    Ben Myers Guest

    Micro$oft was able to finesse around the Windows ME failure because tons of
    Windows 2000 licenses were sold to corporate/enterprise customers. The late
    alpha release of Windows XP in disguise as a legitimate ready-for-prime-time
    product meant that ME was very short lived. In fact, I am dead certain that XP
    was rushed to market to recover from the failure of ME with consumers.

    The overwhelming backlash against Vista has prolonged the life of XP beyond what
    Microsoft wants, and, for that matter, the major hardware name-brands who have
    to grudgingly sell XP instead of Vista on smaller hardware platforms with a
    lower price tag and less profit.

    Office 2007 is a fright with all of the incompatibilities it causes. This
    certainly opens the door for Office alternatives like OpenOffice. Hey, if
    Office 2007 is going have incompatibilities with Office 97/2000/2002/2003, why
    not install something with the same or fewer incompatibilities and for free?
    Best price you can get is $149 for the Office 2007 home/student/whatever edition
    which lacks Access.

    Uh,oh! My bad! I should be posting this to alt.sys.flog.microsoft ,
    shouldn't i? ... Ben Myers
    Ben Myers, Jan 10, 2008
  6. Journey

    Leigh Guest

    I think that the Office 2007 home/student edition also does not come with
    Outlook. Office 2003 student/ teacher edition did come with Outlook. That
    edition was a good product for an great price.

    Leigh, Jan 10, 2008
  7. Journey

    Ben Myers Guest

    An example of how Microsoft keeps the name the same and reduces the content of
    the product. I'm sure there were some focus groups to blame for this decision.

    Symantec has screwed around with product content the same way with its Peter
    Norton series of products.

    Then we have Microsoft creating how many different versions of Vista and Office
    2007 to confuse the public? ... Ben Myers
    Ben Myers, Jan 10, 2008
  8. Journey

    S.Lewis Guest

    Which is interesting because Office2007 also breaks the spell-check in
    Outlook Express, and they have no intention of fixing it.

    (*Which suggests MS is forcing the end user to buy Outlook, or a more
    expensive version of Office that does include Outlook, or to Windows Vista
    ('Windows Mail') from Windows XP.)

    Making friends all over the world, yes they are.
    S.Lewis, Jan 10, 2008
  9. Journey

    Ben Myers Guest

    And, as I learned last week, Office 2007 Access is incompatible with at least
    some SQL data bases out there, whereas Office 2003 Access was just peachy keen.

    Let's all head over to alt.sys.flog.microsoft and pile on! ... Ben Myers
    Ben Myers, Jan 10, 2008
  10. Journey

    Leigh Guest

    Which is a sad situation.

    Office Student/Teacher Edition 2003 came with Word, Excel, Outlook, and
    PowarPoint. Office 2007, I believe, is not a giant leap over Office 2003.
    And Office 2007 not allowing spell-check in Outlook Express, as expressed
    above, is another way of forcing Vista and MS's replacement for Outlook
    Express upon the consumer. I am satisfied with XP and Office 2003 and will
    stay with these products for a while longer.

    I have a Dell Inspiron 6000 with XP Home and Office 2003, an IBM 51r with XP
    Pro with Office 2003 and a Dell E520 with Vista and Office 2007. With all of
    these I mainly use my "white box" with XP Pro and Office 2003.

    Like Journey, I am also looking at a new Mac. My last Mac was the Power
    Macintosh G3 beige desktop. I had been using Apples and Macs for years until
    2001. It is time for me to revisit the Mac. Oh, well.

    (as the world turns and the sewer backs up)

    Leigh, Jan 10, 2008
  11. Journey

    Ben Myers Guest

    You might also look at the latest Ubuntu distro of Linux. User interface is
    very Tiger-like, or is the Tiger UI very Gnome-like? Ubuntu bundles in
    OpenOffice, Firefox, Thunderbird email client, and GIMP, so there you have the
    equivalent of nearly $1000 of Microsoft-Adobe software at no cost to you. Runs
    nicely on any Pentium 4-class computer and not badly on a fully loaded late
    model Pentium 3. You can download an ISO from the Ubuntu web site, burn your
    own bootable CD, and try it out on a "live" basis. Running live boots and runs
    from CD and leaves your hard drive as-is... Ben Myers
    Ben Myers, Jan 11, 2008
  12. Journey

    Colin Wilson Guest

    You might also look at the latest Ubuntu distro of Linux

    ....and if you can handle the "older" version of Ubuntu (i.e. you don't
    want or necessarily need all the eye-candy), I can also recommend Wubi
    as a means of installing it as a dual-boot OS without any (that I know
    of) risk to your existing Windows installation - it sets up a
    "hardfile" with linux within the existing NTFS filesystem, but boots
    as a completely seperate OS.

    To remove it again, you just use the standard "add and remove
    programs" within Windoze.
    Colin Wilson, Jan 11, 2008
  13. Journey

    Leigh Guest

    Thanks for your help, input and ideas.


    Leigh, Jan 11, 2008
  14. Journey

    Leigh Guest

    Thanks for your insight and help.

    Leigh, Jan 11, 2008
  15. Journey

    Zack Guest

    Just out of curiosity :
    there seems to be quite a bit of negative
    emotion/charge over MS (and its latest
    product) around ... why don't people try
    Linux (more)? Or : did you, and how did
    you find it to perform (for real world uses)?

    I have been a Linux user for too long to
    remember (when given a choice, that is),
    and as much as I like the work environment
    in Linux (it suits me), I do NOT think that it is
    perfect, or hassle free; it is not, it does have
    a long list of 'things' about it. Nevertheless,
    with all the drawbacks of Linux, given all the
    negative stuff about Vista coming out: do
    people try Linux (or why not), and how do
    you like it?

    Another option: "Virtual Box." A free virtual
    environment (free as in $, and open source),
    completely functional out of the box. Installs
    on any ("host") system, can run any ("guest")
    system (within a reason). It is pretty trivial to
    try out or use different systems with it, you only
    need appropriate disk space.
    Zack, Jan 11, 2008
  16. Journey

    Jerry Guest

    Because of the site licenses we have at work, I was was able to order
    Office 2007 Home and Student for $76 for my wife's new Christmas
    computer. As others have mentioned, it only comes with Word, Excel,
    and Powerpoint.

    Actually receiving the software is another story. Ordered on 12/3,
    shipped via USPS, who claims they delivered on 12/18, I never
    received. After numerous email exchanges, with a 2 day turnaround for
    each response (just try to find a phone number on the MS Employee
    Purchase Program website!), finally got them to create a new order for
    me, hope the shipping experience goes somewhat better. As a backup in
    case the order goes astray again, I have downloaded OpenOffice to a
    USB datakey.

    The MS EPP isn't nearly as good as it used to be. 4 or 5 years ago I
    was able to order the full-up Office Pro for $25. Guess they aren't
    willing to give it away any more.

    Jerry, Jan 11, 2008
  17. Journey

    Colin Wilson Guest

    why don't people try Linux (more)?

    Preaching to the semi-converted where i'm concerned.

    Not only have I got VirtualBox installed, i've got '95, '98, 2k and
    PCLinuxOS 2007 images configured in it.

    ....and I dual boot Ubuntu using the Wubi installer.
    Colin Wilson, Jan 12, 2008
  18. Journey

    wm_walsh Guest

    Never used it, but my brother has and he liked it a lot. He wishes
    there were a Macintosh version, as he too recently "switched" to the
    Mac. I guess that means OneNote is a great application, whatever it
    does. ;-)
    This is a neat idea, and pretty well thought out. (Makes you wonder if
    M$ really thought of it! ;-) ) I do demand more cross platform
    compatibility, though, so I've largely ignored this feature and used
    VNC instead.
    True, but cross platform development is slowly catching on.
    Alternative products that don't center around the M$ approach to doing
    things have fueled this, as have applications that provide rich
    functionality completely inside of any modern web browser. Because of
    this, I think we are going to see more and more products coming over
    to cross-platform operation.
    A moot point for me. I just don't get into games.
    And why? This is one of two big things that will keep me from moving
    to Vista and other newer M$ products.

    The other is performance. Vista simply tanks, and it seems to not
    matter what the hardware is. My first experience was with a cheap
    Everex PC built around a VIA C7 1.5GHz processor. (What can I say--I
    like offbeat hardware!) Vista ran, and ran surprisingly well, but
    things didn't work in strange ways. Any attempt to use applications
    that rendered 3D video or used advanced features of the built in video
    would cause the entire screen to become corrupt or the machine to dump
    into a STOP error. (Google Earth and iTunes doing cover flow would
    trigger this problem.) I upgraded video drivers and found no
    improvement. So I finally got mad, invested in an XP Pro license and
    found that after downgrading, these applications suddenly worked fine.

    Another thing I've come to love is the fact that Vista apparently
    can't stand the thought of someone using a fullscreen command line! Oh
    dear! At first, the Everex machine running Vista Basic wouldn't do
    this, and I thought that perhaps it had something to do with a Vista
    Home Basic limitation. A much higher powered system with an nVidia
    6600 dedicated video adapter and Vista Business did the same thing.
    Amazing how these newfangled video adapters that can display Aero and
    all those other pretty effects can't go to a full screen text
    mode...at least not under Vista!

    Finally, there's speed of operation. I put a Lenovo 3000 N100 series
    notebook running Vista Home Premium next to my Dell Latitude D800
    (which I downgraded to Windows 2000 Pro SP4 from XP). The Lenovo has a
    1.66GHz Core Duo CPU, while the Latitude has a 2GHz Centrino M
    processor. It struck me as funny--but sad--how time and time again the
    8 (or 9, depending upon how you count) year old OS did *everything*
    faster than Vista, especially when it came time to shut down.

    I hope that M$ is looking and learning from this mess. If you'd have
    asked me what kind of a computer to buy five years ago, I'd have
    recommended some form of a PC with Windows. I'd have laughed if
    someone suggested that I buy a Mac. Today I own four Macs, and while
    Apple is not perfect in any way, I must say that their product is
    something I'm starting to like much more.

    wm_walsh, Jan 12, 2008
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