overclock barrier

Discussion in 'Asus' started by Ken', Jun 15, 2005.

  1. Ken'

    Ken' Guest

    Hi
    My system is
    Asus P4C800-E deluxe
    2.8 Prescott with Intec stock H/S fan
    2x228 Ocz 4000ELDC-K ram
    300 watt Sparkle power supply
    Asus 5700 video card
    Maxtor hard drive
    1 CD ROM
    1 DVD
    I have hit a rut in my overclocking.
    I posted here before and Paul helped me with a very compressive reply.
    He indicated that I should have no problem boosting the FSB to 250 or so.
    I can get no higher that 230, and I am wondering if the reason for that is
    my power supply is only 300 watts.
    Thanks
    Ken'
     
    Ken', Jun 15, 2005
    #1
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  2. Ken'

    Paul Guest

    Have you set "AGP/PCI Frequency (MHz)" [66.66/33.33] ?
    That setting prevents the Northbridge from being overclocked.

    RAM getting enough volts ?

    You can check the power supply via the hardware monitor.
    Either check the voltages in the BIOS or use Asus Probe
    while booted into Windows. If your +12V is below +11.4V,
    I'd be thinking about getting a better supply.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jun 15, 2005
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  3. Ken'

    Ken' Guest

    Will check.

    Thanks
    Ken'
     
    Ken', Jun 16, 2005
    #3
  4. Ken'

    Paul Guest

    Have you verified the clocks and timings the system is
    using, with a program like CPUZ ? I've had issues where
    timing settings in the BIOS are not actually being used
    to program the hardware. Verify your settings with CPUZ
    (www.cpuid.com) and see if things are set up the way
    you think they should be.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jun 16, 2005
    #4
  5. Ken'

    Ken' Guest

    snip>

    Paul
    I have checked with CPU-Z and if I click on the memory tab it says the
    timing are 3- 4- 4- 8. ( this is what OCZ web site say they are )
    If I click on the SPD tab it says the timings are 3- 5- 5- 10.
    I have conversed with a support rep from OCZ forum and he suggested that I
    set the timings to 2.5-3-3-7
    Now here is where I have a problem, if I change the bios to SPD disabled,
    there is 5 places where I can input the timings, and I only have 4 numbers
    to put in.
    Which timings goes where?
    The timing entries are
    cas# to latency
    Ras# to precharge
    Ras# to cas# delay
    precharge delay
    burst length

    I presume that the numbers are entered top to bottom that would leave burst
    length. What is entered in it using the above numbers?
    Thanks
    Ken'
     
    Ken', Jun 16, 2005
    #5
  6. Ken'

    Paul Guest

    Slide 24: 2.5,3,3,7 = Tcas, Trcd, Trp, Tras
    http://corsairmicro.com/corsair/products/tech/memory_basics/153707/index.html

    Asus name Param Info in Micron Datasheet

    DRAM Cas latency Tcas Column Address Strobe (Read) to data
    DRAM Ras precharge Trp Precharge command period
    DRAM Ras to Cas delay Trcd Active to Read or Write
    DRAM Precharge delay Tras Active to Precharge delay

    It looks like in Asus order, the middle two params get swapped.

    Assuming a cache line is 64 bytes, and you are using dual channel
    memory (16 bytes per transfer), the burst size should be 4.

    (How I hate the timing param naming convention... I have to look it
    up every time.)

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jun 16, 2005
    #6
  7. Ken'

    Ken' Guest



    Paul
    I tried timings of 2.5 -3 -3 -7 and burst rate of 4 and it didn't boot. I
    had to clear the RTC and rest the bios defaults.
    What went wrong?
    Ken'
     
    Ken', Jun 16, 2005
    #7
  8. Ken'

    Paul Guest

    The SPD in your RAM says 3-4-4-8. Adjust the settings manually
    a step at a time, until CPUZ reads 3-4-4-8. I couldn't figure
    out what the hell the BIOS on my P4C800-E was doing, because
    it was doing something different with each combo of settings I
    tried. It could be that when you set 2.5-3-3-7, it used timings
    that bore no relationship to those numbers. When a user selects
    "manual", the BIOS should just use the settings it is given,
    and not get clever. (Try dropping the FSB clock, so that if the
    timings are way off, it will still POST. That may allow you to
    investigate the relationship between BIOS setting versus what
    you see in Windows. When Windows reads 3-4-4-8, then the RAM
    is running at its rated timings, all the way up to the RAM's
    max frequency. You will still need to keep an eye on the
    timings, as you change the FSB again, because the BIOS might
    be more clever than you think.)

    While I haven't bothered, it is possible a BIOS upgrade will
    do a better job of actually setting the BIOS according to the
    info the user enters in the setup screen. Either that, or
    try to figure out what kind of broken arithmetic the BIOS
    is actually using.

    This is one of the reasons for using CPUZ - to make sure that
    the BIOS isn't doing something stupid.

    There is nothing in the BIOS release history, to suggest they
    ever fixed the DDR timing settings problem. I think I'm running
    1014.

    ********************
    Must use new Afudos(2.07) to flash BIOS.
    Upgrade ASUSLiveupdate to v 5.22.02 or later

    [ 1022 ]
    Add Mobile CPU Voltage adjust Item.
    Add Mobile CPU multiplier adjust Item.

    [ V1021 ]
    Patch for SATA HDD detection error
    Patch Plextor SATA DVD detection error
    Support mobile CPU adapter card CT-479.
    Support new CPUs.

    [ 1019 ]
    Fixed boot order error when clear cmos and adjust sequence.
    Add Item to control SATA delay time.

    [ 1018 ]
    Add CPU LockFree function.
    Support new CPUs.

    [ 1016 ]
    Fix Prescott Locked CPU can't run to highest frequency.
    Updata Intel RAID BIOS v3.54. Support new CPUs.
    Fix the issue that Logitech QuickCam under Win98.

    [ 1015 ]
    Support new CPUs.
    Fix boot devices fail to be disabled when more than one boot device
    in the same group.

    [ 1014 ]
    (Please do not use Ezflash for updating this BIOS.)
    Fix extended F8 Menu that can't show all devices,if you used more than
    one removables HDD, and cdrom and BEV(Bootstrap Entry Vector) devices.
    Revise extended memory size(16K--->64K).
    Revise Ultra DMA Mode max limit(ultra DMA mode 6--->5).
    Mute beep sound for USB device plug-in/plug-out.
    Support new CPUs.
    Fix the system hangs after clear CMOS.
    Fix LAN function fail under WinNT4.0.

    [ 1011 ]
    Fix PS/2 keyboard and PS/2 mouse can't wake up the system from
    Suspend-to-RAM (S3) and Hibernate(S4). Fix the system can't boot
    to Windows 2000 after 3DLabs Wildcat VP760 XGA card driver
    (v3.01.0181) is installed. Fix LPT port is disabled after flashing
    a BIOS by EZ Flash. Fix the system hangs in POST (POST Code:D1)
    after flashing a BIOS by EZ Flash if a FSB800 CPU is used.
    Update Promise RAID boot ROM (1.00.0.37).
    Fix the system can't boot from Intel CSA 82547EI PCI LAN card.

    [ 1010 ]
    Update Intel RAID boot ROM to v3.5.0.2568 to support RAID 1 mode.
    Please also use the latest IAA to support this function.
    ********************

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jun 16, 2005
    #8
  9. Ken'

    Ken' Guest

    snip

    Paul
    Well I am making progress, slowly.
    I have set the timings manually to 3-4-4-8 and CPU-Z confirms that this is
    what its running at.
    However I can only get the FSB to 233 up from the of 230 I was getting with
    the SPD settings.
    Should I try the 2.5-3-3-7 setting that the OCZ rep suggested?
    Not much of a gain for all this work.
    I am running the dram at 1:1.
    I have tried the other setting of 5:4 and 3:2 and still could only get the
    FSB to 233.
    Should I return the dram to 5:4 or lower. It doesn't seem to help
    I am running bios version 1016.001
    I wish to thank you for your help, and I somewhat reluctant to ask for more
    help as you have been very patient with me.
    Thanks again
    Ken'
     
    Ken', Jun 17, 2005
    #9
  10. Ken'

    timmy Guest

    the cpu is getting too hot...it will hit the high 50's at boot alone,
    even though the temp at desktop indicates something lower. Try some
    advanced cooling solutions before you start ripping apart the system.
    I peeked out at 3150 with my 2.8 with stock cooling, but I was able to
    get some temp readings prior to a cold boot and cmoss reset...running
    stable at 3 ghz until I can mod my case and airflow requirements...
    FYI

     
    timmy, Jun 17, 2005
    #10
  11. Ken'

    timmy Guest

    ps: your generic psu should be replaced as well, your geforce card
    alone will be putting a strain on it...a good quality 350 watt from
    enermax should be more than adaquate and it won't break the bank...
    FYI

     
    timmy, Jun 17, 2005
    #11
  12. Ken'

    Paul Guest

    Well, rather than replace everything in sight, he can either
    calculate the power requirement (http://takaman.jp/D/?english) ,
    or check with the BIOS monitor or Asus Probe, while in Windows.
    If one of the power rails, like +12V, is dipping more than
    5% below the normal value, that would be a sign that it needs
    more juice.

    My motherboard power consumption is [email protected] , [email protected] , [email protected]
    My video card is [email protected], [email protected] or so, in 3DMark.
    Allowing [email protected] and [email protected] for a disk drive, and in the
    same ballpark for a CDROM drive, gives enough info for a
    rough total. 49.5+72+3+27.5+9.6+(5+6)*2 = 184W
    It really depends on whether the load on any individual
    rail of the Sparkle supply, is overloaded by currents like
    that or not.

    I'll grant you, there are some brands that I would replace
    on the spot. Any supplies where flames or sparks shot out the
    back, or any brands that have destroyed other components in the
    computer case, are the ones that would concern me. There
    are some crappy supplies, that have just enough protection
    features, that when they die, they only kill themselves.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jun 17, 2005
    #12
  13. Ken'

    Paul Guest

    OK, since the lower memory ratios aren't getting you anywhere,
    that suggests that the processor is holding you back. The
    multiplier in the processor is locked. The exception to that
    statement, is Asus added Lockfree to the 1018 or later BIOS.
    That allows some of the higher end processors, with PRB=1,
    to be operated with a multiplier of x14. That gives the ability
    to set a higher FSB (and thus higher memory clock), for the
    purpose of increasing memory bandwidth. No 2.8GHz processors
    would do anything with LockFree, because the multiplier on
    those is already x14.

    A little more voltage might help the processor. Or a little
    better cooling (assuming the processor is hitting 70C at
    its current level of overclock).

    Unfortunately, there are only two entries in

    http://cpudatabase.com/index.cfm?action=search

    for "Pentium 4 Prescott 2.8". One processor is doing 3.5GHz at
    1.55V and the other is doing 3.8Ghz at 1.36V.
    Due to the pollution of this database with nonsense overclocking
    results, you need hundreds of entries in the database, to see
    clear trends. The Prescott 3.0 does close to 4Ghz at 1.45 to 1.50V.
    The Prescott 3.2 does close to 4GHz at 1.4 to 1.6V.

    These are the 2.8Ghz processors in processorfinder.intel.com

    1.25V-1.388V SL7PT E0 stepping 2.8Ghz
    1.287V-1.400V SL7PR E0 stepping
    1.287V-1.400V SL7PL E0 stepping
    1.4V SL7KJ D0 stepping
    1.287V-1.400V SL7KA D0 stepping
    1.4V SL7J5 D0 stepping
    1.25V-1.400V SL7E3 D0 stepping

    According to the datasheet, max Vcore is 1.55V.

    What Vcore voltage are you at currently ?
    Try a bit more Vcore and see if the FSB will go further.

    227MHz is where a motherboard gets stuck, if it doesn't have
    AGP/PCI lock. I don't know if that is just a coincidence in
    your case or not.

    Get a copy of this version of clockgen from cpuid.com .
    This might allow to to verify the clock frequencies being
    used.

    http://www.cpuid.org/cg.php?cgid=ICS952607

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jun 17, 2005
    #13
  14. Ken'

    Ken' Guest

    snip
    Paul
    I have conversed with a rep from the OCZ forum and he told me his old system
    was the P4C800-E deluxe with a 2.8 Prescott.
    He claimed that he reached 3.5Ghz with it but only after he changed his
    power supply. He was unaware that my power supply was only 300 watts and as
    soon as I told him this he said that had to be my problem. His old power
    supply was a 450 watts and he claimed it was too small.
    Prior to that he had me increase the cpu voltage to 1.5 volts and this
    allowed me to reach a FSB speed of 235. This was achieved with timings of
    2.5-3-3-7 and the dram set to 5:4.
    I have always check my temps with Asus probe and Everest and it has never
    gone over 60C even when running Prime 95, so I don't think that heat is my
    problem.
    I have decided to leave it for now until I can change my power supply, and I
    will run Prime 95 and MemTest tomorrow to see how stable it is at these
    settings.
    Many thanks for the great help.
    Ken'
     
    Ken', Jun 17, 2005
    #14
  15. Ken'

    Paul Guest

    When you run Prime95, run Asus Probe at the same time, and see
    how your Sparkle power supply is running. It will be interesting
    to see whether the new supply manages better output and makes
    a difference to your overclocking.

    While you are getting that supply, take a look at some of
    the threads here. This will give you some perspective on
    what is at the top of the overclocker pyramid.

    http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=56

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jun 17, 2005
    #15
  16. Ken'

    Ken' Guest


    Paul
    I always run Probe with Prime95 and I have the 12 volt set to sound a
    warning if the voltage drops below 3%. ( this is the lowest it will go )
    It has sounded only once that I know of. I also have it set to record the
    voltage output and I scan it looking for red lines.
    So 3% of 12 would be 11.64 and it has been below it at least once.
    Thanks
    Ken'
     
    Ken', Jun 17, 2005
    #16
  17. Ken'

    Ken' Guest

    snip>
    Well, rather than replace everything in sight, he can either

    Paul
    My power supply 12 volt rail is often down to 11.673, but I have never seen
    it down to 11.4.
    Its max amps on the 12 volt rail is only 18 amps.
    I have found a site to estimate the required wattage for your system.
    http://extreme.outervision.com/index.jsp
    They recommend a min of 24 amps on the 12volt rail.
    The recommended wattage without O/C is 310.
    As soon as I O/C the min wattage is 345.
    So it looks like I will need to upgrade my Power supply if I wish to
    continue to O/C or even if I wish to upgrade my video card.
    Thanks Paul for all your help.
    Ken.
     
    Ken', Jun 19, 2005
    #17
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