Overclocking Failed! message...But I'm not!!

Discussion in 'Asus' started by Desyfa, Jul 28, 2005.

  1. Desyfa

    Desyfa Guest

    Hi, (sorry for the very detailed post)

    Hopefully someone can help me, I'm pulling my hair out trying to figure
    this one out!!

    I've just recently built a PC using the following components:

    640 Intel Pentium® 4 LGA 775 CPU (3.20 Ghz 800FSB) HT 2MB Cache
    Asus P5AD2-E-Premium
    256Mb Connect 3D PCI-E X800 Tv/DVI ViVo
    Arctic Cooling ATI 4 (X800 Series) VGA Silencer
    1Gb Twin Pack (2x 512Mb) Value Select DDR2, 533 MH PC4200
    200Gb Seagate Barracuda (7200.7rpm, 8Mb) - SATA
    Samsung Combo Black 52x32X52 CD-RW + 16x DVD-ROM
    1.44Mb Sony Silver Floppy Disk Drive
    Arctic Cooling T2 Silentium Silent Midi Tower Case - 350W Seasonic
    Silent PSU
    Windows XP Professional SP2

    When I press the power button on the front of the case, the pc seems to
    start with a bit of disk drive whirring, no beeps though, and the
    monitor does not turn on. I then have to turn off the power off at the
    wall, turn it back on, press the power button on the front of the case,
    and then the PC starts and shows the following message:

    Overclocking Failed! Please enter Setup to re-configure your system.
    Press F1 to Run SETUP
    Press F2 to load default values and continue

    As I haven't changed any settings in the BIOS, if I press F1, the BIOS
    shows exactly how it was before. The PC then starts fine and I have no
    trouble whist in Windows. If I press F2, the PC then starts fine and I
    have no trouble whist in Windows.

    If I shut the PC down completely, and then press the power button on
    the front of the case immediately afterwards, the PC starts up fine.
    If however, I wait few minutes to turn the pc back on, the same issue
    arises, ie the pc doesnt start up and the monitor doesnt turn on.

    Obviously, the easiest and cheapest thing is to do the "power on, turn
    on, power off, power on, turn on" thing every time. However, I don't
    know if anything is being damaged in the PC when I do this....so this
    could be costly in the future if for example something melts or blows.

    The power supply in the Arctic Cooling T2 case is a Seasonic 350W
    Continous Silent PSU. This has a 20-pin connector on it whereas the
    motherboard has a 24 pin connector. One of the things I'm wondering
    is, is whether I need a different PSU with a 24 pin connector, or get a
    20-pin to 24-pin adapter that I have read about on some newsgroups.

    The Connect 3D Radeon X800 PCI-E graphics card does not have a power
    connector like the later models.

    I haven't flashed the BIOS, I don't know if its worth attempting an
    update. The details of the BIOS are:

    AMIBIOS
    Version: 0404
    Build Date: 02/03/2005

    To me, this seems like an issue with power, either going to the
    motherboard or to the graphics card. Maybe some settings in the BIOS
    should be changed with regard to power, I don't know.

    If any one can help, it'd be very much appreciated!!!!

    Thanks,

    -adam
     
    Desyfa, Jul 28, 2005
    #1
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  2. Desyfa

    stevem Guest

    Hi, (sorry for the very detailed post)

    Hopefully someone can help me, I'm pulling my hair out trying to figure
    this one out!!
    <snip>
    The power supply in the Arctic Cooling T2 case is a Seasonic 350W
    Continous Silent PSU. This has a 20-pin connector on it whereas the
    motherboard has a 24 pin connector. One of the things I'm wondering
    is, is whether I need a different PSU with a 24 pin connector, or get a
    20-pin to 24-pin adapter that I have read about on some newsgroups.

    <snip>
    To me, this seems like an issue with power, either going to the
    motherboard or to the graphics card. Maybe some settings in the BIOS
    should be changed with regard to power, I don't know.

    If any one can help, it'd be very much appreciated!!!!

    Thanks,

    -adam

    Adam,
    I think you're right to suspect power - frankly, I suspect your PSU is not
    sufficient to run that lot. I have the same board, but I'm using an Antec
    Trucontrol 550W. Try checking your voltages, either with a DVM (read 12V and
    5V from a spare molex), or check with Asusprobe. If any voltage drops below
    5% tolerance, then that's almost certainly you problem.

    Regards,
    Steve.
     
    stevem, Jul 28, 2005
    #2
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  3. Welcome to the club!.
    This message has to be one of the most annoying features ever invented,
    especially when it defaults to the 'voice announcement' on some boards...
    I have often wanted to take electrodes, and attach them to some components
    of the programmer who designed the POST reporting.
    Basically, they give this, for any fault that _might_ occur from
    overclocking, even if the machine is in a 'bog standard' state. So, memory
    timing issues, video card communication problems etc., will all give this
    report. Now some of these can be down to configuration (so on some
    chipsets, you get this when four memories are added, because the timings
    have to be reduced to cope with the extra loading), while others could be
    hardware problems. In your case, the PSU, could easily be the cause. The
    chip you have, drinks a lot of power, as does the video card, and the
    fairly large amount of memory. Now unfortunately, many of the 'power
    saving' features only activate once the machine is fully running, and
    during initial 'bootup', when the disk drive spins up, as does the DVD,
    and the machine performs it's memory tests (which while not exhaustive,
    are quite CPU intensive), tending to show up any problems. The 24pin
    connector is really required for this CPU (basically the pins on the 20pin
    ATX connector _will_ be overloaded when the processor is working hard).
    I'd say a larger supply is really required for this system.

    Best Wishes
     
    Roger Hamlett, Jul 28, 2005
    #3
  4. Desyfa

    Paul Guest

    Your computer case is reviewed here:
    http://www.ap0calypse.com/showthread.php?t=1642

    The review says the built-in PSU has these limits:
    [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

    If I try a few numbers, like 8-9 amps for the processor,
    3+ amps for the video card, 2 amps to spin up the hard drive,
    1 amp for case fans, I cannot quite exceed the 12V rail of
    the PSU. (CD drives shouldn't be drawing any 12V unless there
    is media present.) Unless there is something wrong with the
    Seasonic, it looks like it should work.

    Testing with a slightly more powerful PSU would be a good
    test (mainly as I cannot think of any other tests to run).
    I suppose the odds of having one just sitting around
    are pretty remote, but a cardboard test of all your
    components sitting on a table top, and using a different
    PSU would be educational. You would want a PSU with a bit
    more +12V. (If you use an ATX 2.0 style PSU, where the 12V
    is split into a couple of separate rails, you need even more
    current, as the two rails don't share. 12V2 powers the processor
    and 12V1 powers everything else. Maybe 12 amps on 12V2 would
    give a bit of breathing room. The 12V1 wouldn't need nearly
    as much, and should be sized according to the number of
    12V peripherals. Due to the lack of sharing between 12V1 and
    12V2, you end up buying more PSU capacity.)

    Which is 12V1 and which is 12V2, is documented on page 37 here:
    http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/ATX12V_PSDG_2_2_public_br2.pdf

    As your video card only draws slightly more than 3 amps on
    +12V, and that current is coming from the single pin on the
    ATX power connector, there is no reason to panic, about
    the 20 pin versus 24 pin thing. If the motherboard needed
    more +12V, then buying a proper 24 pin power supply would
    be a good idea, but I don't see the 6 amp limit of the single
    +12V pin on the 20 pin ATX connector being an issue for you.
    You might be using 4 amps of the 6 amps of allowed current
    flow through the pin.

    I don't see a particular damage mechanism waiting for you,
    if this problem is not fixed. You have about the same odds,
    as if you were using a cheap power supply. Seasonic is not
    a bad brand, and their forward converter designs only seem a
    bit strange (their S12, for example, seems to have a weak
    3.3V, and the voltage drops on 3.3V more than it should).
    Other than that, their forward converter design seems to be
    pretty efficient, which is a good thing.

    So, the evidence so far, doesn't point to a "smoking gun".
    Your config should work, but one of the two parties (mobo
    and PSU) is not happy. This could be a cold boot problem
    (of which there are many possible root causes), or it could
    be the motherboard Vcore regulator shutting down because
    it thinks there is a problem.

    One of the potential problems with Vcore designs these days,
    is the use of a switching regulator with "latchoff" on
    overload. Some of the older converter designs (from P3 days)
    operated in "hickup" mode. What that means, is if a problem
    occurs, the Vcore converter will try to start again, at a
    low repetition rate. Say, once a second, it tries to power
    the circuit, and if the current is still too high, it might
    shut off the current after 50 milliseconds. The advantage
    of the hickup mode, is if there is poor transient response
    of your ATX PSU during the first second or two of operation,
    a couple of "hickups" and you are "away to the races". With
    the current generation of "latchoff" designs, you have to
    press the power switch on the front of the case, and turn
    the power off, for the Vcore fault detector to clear. This
    means, if there is some weird behavior at startup on the PSU,
    the Vcore regulator circuit can be intolerant of the behavior,
    and you'll never get anywhere. At least one Asus motherboard
    design had trouble with a bunch of different models of
    Antec power supplies, due to a problem like that (at least
    the symptom descriptions suggested that mechanism). Only the
    initial production run was affected, and I think a component
    change on later motherboards fixed it.

    I could be wrong, but for the "overclocking failed", the
    processor has to detect that initialization did not succeed
    on the last attempt. I don't think the algorithm is documented
    anywhere - it could be something like setting a bit in CMOS
    eariy in the initialization sequence at POST, and clearing the
    bit just as boot is completing, or perhaps even during the
    computer shutdown sequence. If the computer wakes up, and
    finds the bit is set, the implication is the computer crashed
    during POST or later, on the last powerup. But, this algorithm
    also implies that the CPU got to execute some instructions,
    which would not happen if Vcore shut down when the power was
    first applied. Using those lines of thinking, I cannot see
    a nice neat theory to explain it all - it is less likely that
    the board would run for a fraction of a second, only to have
    a power problem at that instant. It would be really handy
    to have a precise definition of how "overclocking failed"
    is detected, as that would make it easier to figure out
    whether the CPU actually got to run for a fraction of
    a second or not.

    So, the only thing I can suggest, is a cardboard test using
    a different PSU.

    One problem I have with these cases with the bundled PSUs,
    is you don't get a say in what size of PSU is used. Your
    current PSU is adequate for the job, without a lot of spare
    margin. If your PSU brand was say, Leadman, I'd suggest
    replacing it immediately. With PSU specs these days, the
    tough part is figuring out how much margin is needed, to get
    the actual power you need (i.e. correcting for power number
    fudging).

    HTH,
    Paul
     
    Paul, Jul 28, 2005
    #4
  5. Desyfa

    Desyfa Guest

    Cheers for all your comments. I realised that this was a common
    problem, and I've only just realised that ASUS boards aren't as good as
    the rest. I'm going over to maplins in a bit to see what 550W PSUs
    they've got.
     
    Desyfa, Jul 28, 2005
    #5
  6. I'm not sure where you got the 'Asus boards are not as good as the rest'
    part. I have yet to find _any_ board manufacturer who always produces
    perfect products (or supports them till they do work right), but Asus are
    in the top few of the current crop, with some models better than others.
    They have some features that are annoying, but so do just about every
    other board I can think of...

    Best Wishes
     
    Roger Hamlett, Jul 28, 2005
    #6
  7. Desyfa

    Desyfa Guest

    I didn't get anything from Maplins...they're rubbish and expensive.
    I've just seen the TruePower 550W on Overclockers, but its around
    £90...I was hoping to spend £50 max. Does anyone have any
    suggestions? Theres an Enermax 535W for about £65 this week on
    overclockers, which doesn't look too bad.

    -adam
     
    Desyfa, Jul 28, 2005
    #7
  8. Desyfa

    DaveW Guest

    Your power supply unit is too underpowered for that combination of high
    power components. I would upgrade to a MINIMUM of a 450 Watt PSU, and you
    may get more reliable starts.

    --
    DaveW



    Hi, (sorry for the very detailed post)

    Hopefully someone can help me, I'm pulling my hair out trying to figure
    this one out!!

    I've just recently built a PC using the following components:

    640 Intel Pentium® 4 LGA 775 CPU (3.20 Ghz 800FSB) HT 2MB Cache
    Asus P5AD2-E-Premium
    256Mb Connect 3D PCI-E X800 Tv/DVI ViVo
    Arctic Cooling ATI 4 (X800 Series) VGA Silencer
    1Gb Twin Pack (2x 512Mb) Value Select DDR2, 533 MH PC4200
    200Gb Seagate Barracuda (7200.7rpm, 8Mb) - SATA
    Samsung Combo Black 52x32X52 CD-RW + 16x DVD-ROM
    1.44Mb Sony Silver Floppy Disk Drive
    Arctic Cooling T2 Silentium Silent Midi Tower Case - 350W Seasonic
    Silent PSU
    Windows XP Professional SP2

    When I press the power button on the front of the case, the pc seems to
    start with a bit of disk drive whirring, no beeps though, and the
    monitor does not turn on. I then have to turn off the power off at the
    wall, turn it back on, press the power button on the front of the case,
    and then the PC starts and shows the following message:

    Overclocking Failed! Please enter Setup to re-configure your system.
    Press F1 to Run SETUP
    Press F2 to load default values and continue

    As I haven't changed any settings in the BIOS, if I press F1, the BIOS
    shows exactly how it was before. The PC then starts fine and I have no
    trouble whist in Windows. If I press F2, the PC then starts fine and I
    have no trouble whist in Windows.

    If I shut the PC down completely, and then press the power button on
    the front of the case immediately afterwards, the PC starts up fine.
    If however, I wait few minutes to turn the pc back on, the same issue
    arises, ie the pc doesnt start up and the monitor doesnt turn on.

    Obviously, the easiest and cheapest thing is to do the "power on, turn
    on, power off, power on, turn on" thing every time. However, I don't
    know if anything is being damaged in the PC when I do this....so this
    could be costly in the future if for example something melts or blows.

    The power supply in the Arctic Cooling T2 case is a Seasonic 350W
    Continous Silent PSU. This has a 20-pin connector on it whereas the
    motherboard has a 24 pin connector. One of the things I'm wondering
    is, is whether I need a different PSU with a 24 pin connector, or get a
    20-pin to 24-pin adapter that I have read about on some newsgroups.

    The Connect 3D Radeon X800 PCI-E graphics card does not have a power
    connector like the later models.

    I haven't flashed the BIOS, I don't know if its worth attempting an
    update. The details of the BIOS are:

    AMIBIOS
    Version: 0404
    Build Date: 02/03/2005

    To me, this seems like an issue with power, either going to the
    motherboard or to the graphics card. Maybe some settings in the BIOS
    should be changed with regard to power, I don't know.

    If any one can help, it'd be very much appreciated!!!!

    Thanks,

    -adam
     
    DaveW, Jul 29, 2005
    #8
  9. Desyfa

    stevem Guest

    Adam,
    Sorry, but as has been said many times both on this newsgroup and elsewhere,
    it's false economy to spend hundreds of pounds on processor, memory, video
    card, etc., and then scrimp on the PSU. Like everything else, you get what
    you pay for (to some extent, at least). The reason I went for the
    TrueControl is specifically because it allows me to adjust the voltages
    precisely; PSUs in general tend to err on the safe side, and provide power
    at 2-3% below stated values. I had an Enermax 435, which should have been
    OK, but which would occasionally drop (I think it was 5V) slightly below 5%
    tolerance, so I decided to bite the bullet and get a supply which should
    keep me going for some years to come. Having said that, the Enermax 535
    should be fine, and the price sounds quite good.
    Regards,
    Steve.
     
    stevem, Jul 29, 2005
    #9
  10. Desyfa

    Desyfa Guest

    Before I go and spend some omey, I think I'll do a few tests.

    I think I might go and get one of those 20-pin to 24-pin converters and
    try that and see what happens. Does anyone know what they actually
    do??

    I've also got an old unbranded 550W 20-pin PSU to test with at the
    weekend. I'll try this with and without the converter.

    -adam
     
    Desyfa, Jul 29, 2005
    #10
  11. Desyfa

    Desyfa Guest

    Before I go and spend some money, I think I'll do a few tests.

    I think I might go and get one of those 20-pin to 24-pin converters and
    try that and see what happens. Does anyone know what they actually
    do??

    I've also got an old unbranded 550W 20-pin PSU to test with at the
    weekend. I'll try this with and without the converter.

    -adam
     
    Desyfa, Jul 29, 2005
    #11
  12. Desyfa

    Desyfa Guest

    uhhh.

    I tried an Antec 550W with the system yesterday...still doesn't work.
    Tried clearing the CMOS, and rebuilt the PC outside the case (to check
    for shorting), and still doesn't work.
    I guess there's something wrong with the motherboard, CPU or memory.

    Damn it.
     
    Desyfa, Aug 3, 2005
    #12
  13. Desyfa

    Peacekeeper Guest

    Ok coming in a tad leate here only see the last post. Asyus when asked about
    this on their support forums said look in the cmos for a setting. I am not
    at my work atn so cannot check the email I got. worth a thought
     
    Peacekeeper, Aug 6, 2005
    #13
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