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Overclocking - Minimum Rick And Cost

Discussion in 'Overclocking' started by Strider, Oct 9, 2004.

  1. Strider

    Strider Guest

    Hi there,

    I really can't afford to upgrade and because my PC is a gaming rig I
    need to squeeze the last ounce power out of it because I just bought
    CS:Source and it's very demanding.
    First, my rig with as much detail as I can master.

    AMD XP 2700 (2.2ghz)
    Asus A7v333-X
    FSB 333
    1.5gb 333 RAM
    Gainward Geforce4 ti4200

    I don't know how to accurately understand motherboard monitor so I've
    took a screen shot: stri.no-ip.com/temp/mm.jpg

    If I spent say, £20 on cooling how much (if any) improvement could I get
    from CS:Source?
    My current CPU temp, is that good, bad? what would be the average?
    And lastly, if I can overclock, does anyone have any safe guides for
    overclocking.

    Forgive me if I've broken any of the rules of this group. Any help in
    overclocking, especially if I can improve performance would be
    immeasurably helpful!

    Thanks

    --
    AGHL IRC Room: http://stri.no-ip.com/irc.php
    Clan Deleterious: www.deleterious.tk

    "After unloading around seventy-five new plants from
    the car, she hunts me down; finding me, by a fluke,
    sitting in front of the computer."
     
    Strider, Oct 9, 2004
    #1
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  2. You already need to cool that sucker down as it is. I see it running at 55 -
    60oC ? That's a little too hot for most. Try keeping it in a more ventilated
    area to start with and add some case fans. If your case is not a open or
    well ventilated case, then you should buy one.

    Ram is great. CPU can go another 500Mhz with some more advanced cooling
    systems. Have a look around and see if you can find a fan that has a higher
    CFM.

    Your graphics card has been superseded on various times. If you do have some
    spare cash, look into a fx5200 or fx5700 to run your games a lot smoother.

    HTH.
    ----
    The Original Criminal
    Even though you may succeed in one part of life, failure is always around
    the corner - Just Shut up and cop it sweet.
    Networking Gear: www.oztechnologies.com
    Email:
    Net Support Pages: www.ozcableguy.com
    Cheap PC Gear:
    http://members.ebay.com.au/ws2/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=no1_system_builder
     
    The OrIgInAl CrImInAl, Oct 9, 2004
    #2
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  3. Strider

    Strider Guest

    In the bedlam that is alt.comp.hardware.overclocking

    The OrIgInAl CrImInAl proclaimed...
    That's excellent, thanks.

    --
    AGHL IRC Room: http://stri.no-ip.com/irc.php
    Clan Deleterious: www.deleterious.tk

    "After unloading around seventy-five new plants from
    the car, she hunts me down; finding me, by a fluke,
    sitting in front of the computer."
     
    Strider, Oct 9, 2004
    #3
  4. Strider

    Cuzman Guest

    " If you do have some spare cash, look into a fx5200 or fx5700 to run your
    games a lot smoother. "



    'Upgrading' from a Ti4200 to an FX5200? The standard overclock on a
    Gainward Ti4200 already puts it in the FX5700 league.

    I take it your 1.5GB of DDR is made up of 3x 512MB. Including the CPU and
    motherboard chipset, you have 5 factors running at 333FSB, and you can only
    overclock as far as the lowest performing component.

    By all means overclock, but I think that money could be better spent
    elsewhere. Firstly, try turning your CPU fan round the other way, so that
    it sucks instead of blows. This often solves airflow problems in cases.

    Also, if I were you, I would sell the Ti4200 at www.ebay.co.uk and buy a
    Radeon 9700 Pro from there. You can get them for around £70 now.
     
    Cuzman, Oct 9, 2004
    #4
  5. Strider

    Strider Guest

    In the bedlam that is alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd

    Cuzman proclaimed...
    Thanks cuzman

    --
    AGHL IRC Room: http://stri.no-ip.com/irc.php
    Clan Deleterious: www.deleterious.tk

    "After unloading around seventy-five new plants from
    the car, she hunts me down; finding me, by a fluke,
    sitting in front of the computer."
     
    Strider, Oct 9, 2004
    #5
  6. Strider

    Strider Guest

    In the bedlam that is alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd

    Cuzman proclaimed...
    I trust you mean draw air down onto the heatsink instead of removing it?

    --
    AGHL IRC Room: http://stri.no-ip.com/irc.php
    Clan Deleterious: www.deleterious.tk

    "After unloading around seventy-five new plants from
    the car, she hunts me down; finding me, by a fluke,
    sitting in front of the computer."
     
    Strider, Oct 9, 2004
    #6
  7. Strider

    Rusty Guest

    It appears that you have a standard stock aluminum (al) heat sink (HS) with
    a stock fan. The al heat sink will have a differential temperature in
    degree Celsius per wattage rating (C/W), which determines it's ability to
    remove heat per power generated by the processor. The differential
    temperature is the temperature difference between the core temperature and
    the air intake temperature at the fan. At this point you can't change that
    much without changing the heat sink. The C/W of the HS is limited to the
    material, which was used to build the HS and the fin design (exposed area to
    dissipate heat).

    1. You can move more air across the heat sink with a higher air flow (cubic
    centimeters per minute), which decreases the differential temperature across
    the surface of the HS material lowering the C/W.
    2. You can increase air flow in the case, which also decreases the
    differential temperature by lowering the processor fan intake temperature
    lowering the C/W.
    3. You can use a different HS made from copper changing the material
    composition, which lowers the C/W value by allowing more heat to be adsorbed
    by the material and dissipated.

    Ref. 1 replace the current HS fan with a high velocity/volume HS fan. Look
    for a higher rpm fan of the same size.
    Ref. 2 add additional fans at the case intake and the case exhaust or add
    high volume fans at the case intake and case exhaust or both.
    Ref. 3 replace the HS with a copper unit.

    If it is in your budget try apply all three references above. A discussion
    of dynamics involved with heat removal at the processor is beyond the scope
    of this email and requires a vast knowledge of thermal dynamics. What I
    have stated above are some general principles to follow for good pc cooling.

    There are also voltage limitations to the processor when over clocking that
    have nothing to do with the temperature. A higher voltage will produce a
    higher wattage
    (voltage x current = power (watts)).
    A higher wattage produces more heat like a light bulb but the internal
    voltage in the processor does not produce the heat. The heat is generated
    as a result of the electrical current through a given restricted path called
    voltage. The higher the restriction the greater the heat and the power
    requirements to move the current. Think of it like a water hose where
    pressure is the power needed to move water through a restriction. When you
    restrict a water hose the pressure increases at the restriction. At some
    point you can restrict the water hose to a point that the pressure at the
    restriction decreases and the pressure behind the restriction increases (no
    flow of water). This is similar to what happens by increasing the voltage
    in the processor. At some point you reach a limit and the system will
    become unstable and damage will occur, for a Athlon processor this is around
    1.85 volts but varies from processor to processor based on manufacturing
    process and the wafer material used.

    In very simple terms, by lowering the processor temperature you effectly
    change the limit at which you can increase the voltage with out damage
    (pressure build up behind the restriction). Note: damage can occure by over
    heating, over voltage, or both. This will yield a higher stable over clock
    for the processor by increasing the supplied power to the processor.

    For a in-depth study of what happens when you start to over clock your pc
    search the web. I don't have a specific web site because there are a large
    number of site that deal with this issue and explain what is taking place.
    Some web sites will say not to, others will say go for it, and some will
    just state the facts. Personally I don't have allot of money to spend on
    the latest and greatest stuff, so I over clock all my personal systems to
    extend the life of the product a few months/years depending on the life
    cycle at that time, which is getting shorter every year. I have been over
    clocking since the 486 processors were released and have had only a few
    component failures, mostly video cards and mother boards.

    On older mother boards you could not lock the ISA, PCI, APG clock
    frequencies so when you over clocked the cpu bus you over clocked everything
    else. Check the manual and see if the PCI and APG frequencies are locked
    apart from the cpu FSB if not find out what the dividers are for the given
    FSB. Increase the FSB and lower the cpu multiplier if possible and make
    sure that memory is running at the same frequency as the FSB for the AMD
    processor. If the APG and PCI buses are not locked do not exceed 72 Mhz on
    the APG bus, it will result in possible video card failure. Do not exceed
    67°C load on the CPU motherboard temperature resistor it will result in a
    early cpu death (short life). Take the fsb as high as it will go with out
    exceeding the above parameters by lowering the cpu multiplier. Once you
    have a stable system try increasing the cpu muleteer at the stock voltage
    once it becomes unstable increase the voltage in smallest step possible
    until cpu is stable continue this process until it gets to hot under a load
    of becomes unstable. Use prime95 to test for cpu / memory stability and
    mark3d for apg bus stability.

    http://www.a7vtroubleshooting.com/info/cpu/
    http://hardware.mcse.ms/message84522.html
     
    Rusty, Oct 9, 2004
    #7
  8. Strider

    Geoff Guest

    no he means suck air from the heatsink instead of blowing down into it
    i'd say it's a stupid suggestion, in most cases blowing down is best

    your temp sensor screeny says:
    case 37C
    cpu dioode: 55c
    CPU socket 60c
    cpu speed 2167mhz

    i'd take the side off your case, it's kinda borderline fallling over atm
    and buy a new video card, gf4 ti4200 is gonna run like crap on new camper
    strike
     
    Geoff, Oct 9, 2004
    #8
  9. Strider

    Alceryes Guest

    Upgrading that video card is your best bet with that system and Cuzman's
    suggestion of selling the Ti4200 and getting a 9700 Pro is right on for
    'price for performance' except that I would go for the 9800 Pro since
    they're so close in price.
     
    Alceryes, Oct 9, 2004
    #9
  10. Strider

    ~misfit~ Guest

    My thoughts entirely. My ti4200 gets double the 3D Marks ('01) that my g/f's
    FX5200 gets and she has a faster CPU.
     
    ~misfit~, Oct 10, 2004
    #10
  11. Strider

    Strider Guest

    In the bedlam that is alt.comp.hardware.overclocking

    ~misfit~ proclaimed...
    Thankyou all.

    --
    AGHL IRC Room: http://stri.no-ip.com/irc.php
    Clan Deleterious: www.deleterious.tk

    "After unloading around seventy-five new plants from
    the car, she hunts me down; finding me, by a fluke,
    sitting in front of the computer."
     
    Strider, Oct 10, 2004
    #11
  12. Strider

    Venom Guest

    Your motherboard is your bottleneck.


     
    Venom, Oct 12, 2004
    #12
  13. Strider

    Ykalon Guest

    FX5200 is WAY slower than a GF4 Ti4200. Do NOT buy one. FX5700 is a
    little faster. A ti4200 will be good enough for another year.
     
    Ykalon, Oct 16, 2004
    #13
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