P5W DH Deluxe, P5B Deluxe, What's the practical difference?

Discussion in 'Asus' started by Dave Smith, Mar 7, 2007.

  1. Dave Smith

    Dave Smith Guest

    I'm getting ready to build a new computer. I won't be doing any
    gaming, mostly large files in Photoshop and some audio processing.
    I'll be running XP Pro.

    I'm looking at the P5W DH Deluxe and the P5B Deluxe and just can't get
    through the hype to decide which to go with. I'm not interested in
    the WiFi and probably won't overclock much if at all. Can someone
    please simplify this for me a bit and tell me what the practical
    differences between these boards are? Maybe recommend one that is
    more appropriate for my needs, if there is one.

    Thanks very much for any help.
     
    Dave Smith, Mar 7, 2007
    #1
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  2. Dave Smith

    Dave Smith Guest

    Adding to my own post, maybe the plain P5B would be best. What's the
    practical difference between the 965 and 975 chipsets?
     
    Dave Smith, Mar 7, 2007
    #2
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  3. Dave Smith

    Paul Guest

    975X supports ECC and 965 doesn't.

    And the funny thing is, they don't even mention ECC in the Intel charts.

    http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/express_flyer.htm

    If you don't feel a need to use ECC RAM, then a 965 board should
    do the job just fine.

    For feedback about a board, you can check the Asus hosted forums...

    http://vip.asus.com/forum/topic.aspx?board_id=1&model=P5W+DH+Deluxe&SLanguage=en-us

    or Newegg...

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/CustratingReview.asp?Item=N82E16813131025

    And also, download the motherboard manual, before you buy, so there
    are no surprises. I like to read the BIOS screens in the manual, before
    I buy a board. You can also verify whether ECC is supported or not, by
    reading the manual.

    You can also use this CPUSupport page, to verify the board supports your CPU.

    http://support.asus.com.tw/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx?SLanguage=en-us

    HTH,
    Paul
     
    Paul, Mar 7, 2007
    #3
  4. Dave Smith

    Guest Guest

    There are a few other differences, e.g. the 975 supports more
    than one PCI-E slot (for SLI) while the 965 supports only one.
    Also PAT (performance acceleration technology) is built into
    975 not 965.

    Also, core2 Duo chips use a newer VRM 1.1 spec. Some
    975 boards such as the P5W DH were updated with this
    VRM, while other 975 boards were not.
     
    Guest, Mar 7, 2007
    #4
  5. Dave Smith

    taylerdo Guest

    Paul,

    Can you comment on the advantages / disadvantages of using ECC memory on
    a home use (non-business critical) system. Thanks. I appreciate it.

    DON
     
    taylerdo, Mar 8, 2007
    #5
  6. Dave Smith

    Paul Guest

    In terms of performance issues, ECC requires a read-modify-write cycle,
    if fractional parts of a 64 bit piece of memory need to be updated.
    With modern processors, I don't know if this is a common case, as many
    operations involve whole cache lines. And for those, there would be no
    impact of having ECC present.

    In terms of benefits, for a memory controller supporting SECDED, a single
    bit error in a 64 bit word, can be silently corrected. If there
    are two or more errors, they may be detected. Not having any ECC memory
    here, I cannot tell you how Windows responds to a detected ECC error,
    whether it causes the application to be aborted, or just causes a notification
    in the event viewer.

    Another kind of memory protection, is called Chipkill. I believe the
    Athlon64 family supports it. It uses the same ECC modules as before.
    Just the algorithm used inside the memory controller is different.
    Its main advantage, is for the owners of memory sticks that use x4 chips.

    Chipkill is described here. I don't recollect anyone discussing Chipkill
    for their system, and maybe it is more popular for things like server
    systems that use registered RAM. Registered RAM is the right place to be
    using x4 chips, as it allows higher capacity DIMMs to be made, and the
    register prevents the larger quantity of chips from slowing the address
    bus (an important consideration on Athlon64). And then an algorithm
    tuned to protect against a dead single x4 wide chip, is excellent when
    combined with a higher density memory product.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chipkill

    If you are doing something for which the correctness of the computed
    result is important (your income taxes), then having ECC is one more
    mechanism to detect problems. If the system is used for more casual
    purposes, where a crashing application, or the odd reboot is required,
    then you can live without ECC.

    You can kind of measure the popularity of ECC, by trying to buy some.
    DDR2 memory with ECC is not something enthusiasts (overclockers, gamers)
    buy, so it seems to be pretty hard to find. And generally the sticks
    offered, will not be the fastest ones in terms of clock rates. There
    is no real reason for that from a technical perspective, and that
    tells you the market demand. Someone buying ECC seems to be happy with
    more conventional, run of the mill, clock rate support. (Like DDR2-533
    perhaps.)

    I generally only mention ECC to people who express an interest in
    "reliable computing". And that is mainly because other people don't
    seem to be too interested in ECC.

    HTH,
    Paul
     
    Paul, Mar 8, 2007
    #6
  7. Dave Smith

    BC Guest

    Dear Don/Paul,

    below is Corsair's take on the subject: they recommend ECC RAM, but
    sell mostly standard non-ECC:

    http://corsairmemory.com/corsair/products/tech/trg-ecc.html

    [copy follows]

    Here is DDR2 ECC RAM at Newegg: ~ $90 tp $140 per GB, Kingston and
    Crucial are solid/stable/reliable/lifetime warranty. About 20 products.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...CodeValue=526:7868&PropertyCodeValue=527:7870

    Non ECC ram: about 300+ choices: just a few selected here:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...2E16820145043,N82E16820134117,N82E16820144157

    Prices about comparable, but, you get faster memory for dollar with non-ECC.

    I use ECC on the machine I am on now: accounting, work use, almost
    always on; kid's machines use Corsair or Kingston or Micron/Crucial
    non-ECC....

    HTH,

    BC


    From Corsair:

    ECC: What Is It, and Why Would I Pay Extra For It?

    This is the question #2 for the Ram Guy. So, let me try to clear things
    up a little...

    First of all, what does ECC stand for?

    "ECC" stands for "Error Checking and Correction".

    And, what is "Error Checking and Correction"?

    Error Checking and Correction refers to a technology which allows a
    computer system to operate even if a memory error occurs.

    Why do ECC modules cost more than modules without ECC?

    In order to check and correct the memory, additional RAMs are required.
    A non-ECC module which has eight RAMs would need to have a ninth RAM
    added; a sixteen RAM module would generally need to have TWO additional
    RAMs added. Obviously, the additional RAMs make the module more expensive.

    So it's kind of like the old parity modules, right?

    Well, kind of, but ECC is a WHOLE LOT more useful. The ECC technology
    used on most x86-architecture PCs and servers is capable of correcting
    errors, where parity can only detect errors. If you've ever had an error
    "detected" on your system, you know the result - the blue screen of
    DEATH! Really useful, huh... With ECC you would sail right through,
    without crashing or even interrupting normal operation. Much more useful!

    I don't understand why these memory errors occur. What gives?

    Unfortunately, the Ram Guy is not a physicist. But, he did speak to one,
    and was told that there are two main causes of these errors:

    * naturally occurring radioactive isotopes (which emit alpha
    particles), and
    * high energy cosmic rays from supernovas

    Both of these phenomena can change the value of a memory bit from a zero
    to a one or from a one to a zero.

    By the way, these errors are known as "soft" errors. They are called
    "soft" because they can be repaired by simply correcting the value of
    the memory bit.

    Come on... cosmic rays? Really, how often does this occur?

    The Ram Guy consulted with some experts on this one. Basically, it's a
    statistics problem. But, when you do the math, a soft error is likely to
    occur in a system with 256 Mbytes of memory about every 750 hours! And,
    the more memory you have, the more frequently soft errors will occur.

    Is that such a big deal?

    You tell me. At two hours a day, 750 hours is once a year. Probably no
    big deal. But, at twenty-four hours a day, it's a month. That's not
    sounding so good, now...

    If you're emailing and word processing, a crash is an inconvenience. If
    you're serving web pages, a crash can be disastrous! It's really up to
    you...

    What's the bottom line?

    If you are running any kind of server, the Ram Guy thinks you are NUTS
    if you don't use ECC. For desktops with 256MB or less of memory that are
    running typical office applications, ECC is really not necessary. For
    high performance workstations or other systems with more than 256MB of
    memory, the Ram Guy would recommend that you use ECC, but will cut you
    some slack if you feel differently.
     
    BC, Mar 8, 2007
    #7
  8. Dave Smith

    DaveW Guest

    The P5W DH Deluxe is an advanced motherboard that uses Intel's 975 chipset.
    The P5B Deluxe is a simpler motherboard design and uses the slightly slower
    965 Intel chipset.
     
    DaveW, Mar 8, 2007
    #8
  9. What is this VRM 1.1 spec?

    ss.
     
    Synapse Syndrome, Mar 10, 2007
    #9
  10. Dave Smith

    Natéag Guest

    VRM = Voltage regulator Monitor

    As to what is the difference between versions...
    I really do not know.
     
    Natéag, Mar 10, 2007
    #10
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